Foreign built narrowboats reliability, durability, Resale

[Athy]

 

The fact that previous employees carry on a build is laudable, of course, but it doesn't in itself mean people have not lost out.

 

 

That is what Tiggers seemed to be saying, as she stated that the boats which had been under construction, still are under construction.

[Tiggers]

As I spent three years studying Law, I know not to go posting things that could make either myself or Dan (who is a good friend of mine) liable until everything is settled. It is true that some people have lost out, but the work on the boats has never stopped. I would really love to say more, but with the possibility of court action coming up (not by customers or suppliers I hasten to add), my hands are tied.

 

All I can say is that the guys who are now working have always done their best, and had no idea what was happening before. They have lost out quite substantially themselves due to not being paid, and agreeing to finish the boats off at a very good price so to minimise the customers loss. Despite not being paid for a fairly long time, they never stopped working, at the end of the day, they have as much passion as I did.

[Guest]

Apologies Tiggers if my question put you in a difficult spot - I just felt it appropriate that people should know how it concluded. Particularly if there was the potential for folk to lose money.

 

Interesting that the web site is all still up and running.

 

http://www.williampipernarrowboats.co.uk/

[alan_fincher]

The fact that previous employees carry on a build is laudable, of course, but it doesn't in itself mean people have not lost out.

 

 

That is what Tiggers seemed to be saying, as she stated that the boats which had been under construction, still are under construction.

 

 

They have lost out quite substantially themselves due to not being paid, and agreeing to finish the boats off at a very good price so to minimise the customers loss.

 

No further comment necessary, I think!

[Athy]

Yes, it looks as if the work force has lost money to prevent customers doing so. Hats off to them.

I wonder what the new company will be called; presumably they can't carry on as William Piper, despite that name still being on their web site. Good luck to them, whatever name they trade under.

[Westyman]

Just to add a note re Elton Moss boats. Our 3 1/2 year old share boat from them has the hull made up North somewhere (can't remember the maker, I think it had three initials) and then went to Czech Republic for fit out. The timber work and wiring - other than that to the bilge pump) is excellent.

[Athy]

That sounds a very uneconomical way of doing things: transporting a shell to Czechoslovakia, and then back again, must have cost a pretty penny. I wonder why they did it that way?

[blackrose]

I've lived aboard an Aqualine Manhatton for nearly 2 years now. It's just over 3 years old. It had done less than 50 hours when we bought it 2 winters ago. I've made a few changes to make it easier to live on, back boiler in the squirrel connected to the existing heating system in tandem with the webasto running a seperate pump. Morco hot water heater (wouldn't be without instant hot water ever again) switchable between the calorifier. 12v fridge/freezer. Extended the existing bed to 4'6" cos the missus kept falling out Extra ballast in the bow as they tend to be a bit light in the front (they make them that way so they are easier to steer for newbies). Fitted a little Zanussi washing machine in the hole that Aqualine put there.

 

To sum up, build quality excellent, electrical cupboard completely OTT. Once you work out how they're put together, they are simple to dissassemble for access/upgrades. No immersion provision in the calorifier so you have to run the engine or Webasto for hot water (or change the calorifier or do what I did and fit an instant hot water heater). Only real negative is the paint is a bit thin. Have heard some say they are a bit 230v hungry but feel that is unfounded. Only 230v we got is the TV. As to resale prices/value, one well known broker I know said there could almost be a Glasses guide for them! Definitely a boat that appeals to first time buyers and would definitely reccommend.

 

 

A boat can't be 230v hungry - it's the occupiers who are, so whoever said that is talking nonsense.

 

Out of interest, I have the same sort of hot water setup as you (I can switch between calorifier and gas water heater). But if you're on shore power at your mooring and you also wanted to fit an immersion heater, you might find a large lump of insulation somewhere on the bottom of the calorifer (assuming it's vertical). If you cut off the insulation at that point you'll find an immersion heater boss (plate) underneath. Once you drain the calorifier it's not that difficult to fit an immersion heater. I think a 1kw or 1.5kw short length, dual thermostat type is the sort you'd want.

 

PM me or ask on the forum if you want more info.

[CV32]

 

Having said that, I think narrow boats (like houses) are one of the few things that we can still build in England and I cannot understand why anyone would want to put British workers on the dole (and add to our gloomy economic prospects) by having one built overseas.

 

A great attitude to have Graham, however its not always that simple to achieve. My reason for buying an overseas produced boat were fairly straightforward:

 

1/ Price, I did not have a spare £70-100K hanging around.

2/ Condition, we looked at second hand but in our original price range a lot were not very nice and I am not skilled enough to refit.

2/ Availability, I wanted to see a completed product and not risk the potential issues of bust builder syndrome (as we have sadly seen quite a lot of over the years)

3/ Timescale, we wanted to get out there and enjoy ourselves on the canals and meet all the interesting and sometimes a little strange people that occupy the cut

[Masquerade]

A boat can't be 230v hungry - it's the occupiers who are, so whoever said that is talking nonsense.

 

Out of interest, I have the same sort of hot water setup as you (I can switch between calorifier and gas water heater). But if you're on shore power at your mooring and you also wanted to fit an immersion heater, you might find a large lump of insulation somewhere on the bottom of the calorifer (assuming it's vertical). If you cut off the insulation at that point you'll find an immersion heater boss (plate) underneath. Once you drain the calorifier it's not that difficult to fit an immersion heater. I think a 1kw or 1.5kw short length, dual thermostat type is the sort you'd want.

 

PM me or ask on the forum if you want more info.

 

Think the reference was to the 230v appliances fitted such as the fridge, microwave etc and for running the fan in the oven and grill.

 

There is no provision for an immersion heater in the calorifiers they fit unless it's specified at purchase. I swapped out a calorifier on another similar aged aqualine for this reason as the customer wanted an immersion heater fitted. Might be different on more recent builds. Proved to me just how extensively Aqualine cost the build of their boats! Sign of shrewd management.

 

Poland is a country a little behind ours. They still have an abundance of highly skilled craftsmen (unlike here where the skills pool is quickly becoming depleted). However, since joining Europe the costs of those skills has increased and along with the value of the pound to the euro it probably makes sense to bring production back to the UK. Be interesting to see what happens to the quality! Anyone know if the range is staying as is or whether a new range is in the offing?

 

Tim

[Guest]

Anyone know if the range is staying as is or whether a new range is in the offing?

 

Tim

 

At the moment their web site still shows the same ranges -

 

http://www.aqualinemarine.co.uk/meet-the-narrowboat-family/

[ditchcrawler]

yes but you don't know what grade of plate they have used in eastern Europe , even if they have EU quality standards it doesn't mean they've used them. I know Poland is not the hole it was in the past, but it ain't Germany yet is it.

Interesting comment on TV the other night in a program about a double agent where it was reported that a German General said "Once we invade England things will start to work properly" so maybe Germany was not that great

[Doorman]

I've seen some reasonable Vikings, but also some examples of poor build quality - one with rippled cabin sides that they decided to put on display at Crick! (At least they were being honest I suppose!)

 

We went to Crick in 2007 and were astonished at the poor quality of some boats. To be honest, I would not have had the gall to display the levels of poor workmanship at such a popular, industry respected boat show!

 

Mike

[Boat&Bikes]

Please buy British,it can be done and not always much more exspensive..my boat,house,car and motorbikes are British built...its our future...

 

 

Ian.

[cereal tiller]

Please buy British,it can be done and not always much more exspensive..my boat,house,car and motorbikes are British built...its our future...

 

 

Ian.

Agreed.

 

i need to buy some new batteries soon,does anyone know if it is possible to buy british ones?

[Doorman]

Think the reference was to the 230v appliances fitted such as the fridge, microwave etc and for running the fan in the oven and grill.

Tim

 

You neglected to mention the 500 watt sound system that keeps us awake all night, together with the 230v pre-heated spa bath that sits nicely in the well deck.

 

The ticker tape supply of shoreline electric cards that you constantly feed into the jetty meter is a dead giveaway!

 

 

Anon

[ditchcrawler]

Agreed.

 

i need to buy some new batteries soon,does anyone know if it is possible to buy british ones?

Shield Batteries

[alan_fincher]

Shield Batteries

Are you sure ?

 

From Shield Batteries Website

 

Due to manufacturing limitations in the UK, we are proud of our long association with REEM Batteries from Oman who support us with the best battery technology available,

[Masquerade]

You neglected to mention the 500 watt sound system that keeps us awake all night, together with the 230v pre-heated spa bath that sits nicely in the well deck.

 

The ticker tape supply of shoreline electric cards that you constantly feed into the jetty meter is a dead giveaway!

 

 

Anon

 

Why do you think there are no boats either side of me

 

Buy british? Difficult to find anything that's totally british. Assembled in britain is about as close as you'd get. As a country we are good at innovating and inventing but not good at production and unless we change the way kids are educated we won't be any good at that either!

 

I prefer the attitude toward buying local. You are local aren't you???

 

Tim

Edited November 21, 2011 by Masquerade

[ditchcrawler]

Are you sure ?

 

From Shield Batteries Website

I just read through it and am not 100% sure as the texts is a bit contradictory.Maybe they are still making some, maybe not. They were making batteries the last time I went, it looked like something from the Black Country in Victorian times.

[Dominic M]

Please buy British,it can be done and not always much more exspensive..my boat,house,car and motorbikes are British built...its our future...

 

 

Ian.

Is building in Britain the answer? Surely the big earner is design, not manufacture. Take the iPhone: designed in the USA, manufactured in China. For each one sold Apple make around $75 , the Chinese manufacturer $5.

 

One of Britain's current success stories is ARM, who design microprocessors. The company is hugely successful globally. They manufacture nothing. They source out the manufacture to places like China. I saw ARM's CEO interviewed some months ago. He said that he knew nothing about manufacture, the company's expertise was tecnology design. Why would they invest millions in constructing a plant they had no experience of ever operating?

 

The tricky side of this is whilst both ARM and Apple are large employers, their workforce is a highly educated degree standard one. What happens to those who don't gain such qualifications in this country?

Edited November 21, 2011 by Dominic M

[sebrof]

I personally don't have a problem with how they look, after all aesthetics are purely a subjective personal thing

 

We looked at East West boats when we were buying and after making enquiries similar to the OP were put off by it being pointed out that they do have a very 'square' less sloping cabin profile than other makes.

 

So it would seem that you DO care about how they look.

 

And I think you are mistaken if you think that aesthetics are purely subjective. There is generally a high degree of unanimity concerning aesthetics, especially amongst knowledgeable people.

 

I'm not sure it's fair to compare Polish built boats with Chinese.

 

The Polish have a formidable shipbuilding reputation and the Chinese are famous for making poor quality tat and selling it cheap.

 

Formidable indeed. The huge Gdansk shipyard went bust as soon as the communist era subsidies ended. There are no other shipyards of any size, incidentally, or at least not since the U-boat facility at Elblag closed in 1944.

[Guest]

So it would seem that you DO care about how they look.

 

And I think you are mistaken if you think that aesthetics are purely subjective. There is generally a high degree of unanimity concerning aesthetics, especially amongst knowledgeable people.

 

Of course by omitting the final line of that post when you selectively quoted me you completely changed the meaning of the post, what I actually said had nothing to do with asthetics of the cabin profile but rather the practicalities.-

 

I personally don't have a problem with how they look, after all aesthetics are purely a subjective personal thing

 

We looked at East West boats when we were buying and after making enquiries similar to the OP were put off by it being pointed out that they do have a very 'square' less sloping cabin profile than other makes.

 

OK it may make for a little more space inside but it could be a problem in some tunnels for example. Of course only a problem in certain cruising areas.

 

You seem to have come for a spat - just so you know you won't be getting one here.

[sebrof]

 

The tricky side of this is whilst both ARM and Apple are large employers, their workforce is a highly educated degree standard one. What happens to those who don't gain such qualifications in this country?

 

They riot.

 

Since the English are essentially German (or Saxon, to be precise), we just need to re-inculcate a bit of deference and respect for authority, and our lads can become footmen, coachmen, and butlers to all the resident oligarchs.

 

Alternatively, let's intervene in Syria with some proper infantry, not these drones and missiles. We could sort out Syria, and cure our unemployment/over-population problems at the same time.

 

Where there's a will there's a way.

 

But, joking apart, Dominic, you are quite correct. That's why we should subsidise useful degree courses, and make it worthwhile for the less bright to take lower-paid jobs rather than hand-outs.

 

Of course by omitting the final line of that post when you selectively quoted me you completely changed the meaning of the post, what I actually said had nothing to do with asthetics of the cabin profile but rather the practicalities.-

 

 

 

You seem to have come for a spat - just so you know you won't be getting one here.

 

No. I misunderstood you. For me, the way the roof slopes up at the rear of a well-made NB is crucial to how it looks, and I thought that was what you were referring to.

Edited November 21, 2011 by sebrof

[DandV]

 

 

Formidable indeed. The huge Gdansk shipyard went bust as soon as the communist era subsidies ended. There are no other shipyards of any size, incidentally, or at least not since the U-boat facility at Elblag closed in 1944.

 

How big a ship yard is required to build a narrowboat?

What I find interesting is while the majority of all shipping construction is concentrated in lower wage economies dooming the industry in the UK. Prestige large cruise ship construction is concentrated in high wage western European countries except the UK. What went wrong?

 

Cheers Don