Grand Union to River Avon ?

[airborne]

Hi All ,

I am new to the boating / canals game ,but already have had some good advice from this forum , so my question is this .I plan to hopefully purchase a traditional Dutch Barge in the not too distant future , dimensions approximately 15m to 16m in length , 3m to 3.5m in Beam , and 0.5m to 1m Draft . Ideally I would like to use the Waterways system to cruise all of the Grand Union Canal and then up towards Birmingham , and then hopefully onto the River Avon down to Tewksbury . Can this be achieved on the above barge , by-passing the Narrow beam system ?

[BEngo]

Hi All ,

I am new to the boating / canals game ,but already have had some good advice from this forum , so my question is this .I plan to hopefully purchase a traditional Dutch Barge in the not too distant future , dimensions approximately 15m to 16m in length , 3m to 3.5m in Beam , and 0.5m to 1m Draft . Ideally I would like to use the Waterways system to cruise all of the Grand Union Canal and then up towards Birmingham , and then hopefully onto the River Avon down to Tewksbury . Can this be achieved on the above barge , by-passing the Narrow beam system ?

 

No. The beam limit is 6ft 10 inches between the GU and the Avon.

 

N

[classicstove]

No !

 

You can get a 14 feet wide barge to Camp Hill on the Grand Union but to get to the River Avon, the Stratford, Worcester and Birmingham and Staffs and Worcs have only 7 feet wide locks

 

Have you thoiugh about having it craned into the River Avon somewhere ?

[David Schweizer]

No !

 

You can get a 14 feet wide barge to Camp Hill on the Grand Union but to get to the River Avon, the Stratford, Worcester and Birmingham and Staffs and Worcs have only 7 feet wide locks

 

Have you thoiugh about having it craned into the River Avon somewhere ?

 

No you cannot. The Blue Lias bridge at the top of Stockton is only 12ft wide.

Edited November 17, 2011 by David Schweizer

[Bob18]

The only way I can think of while staying afloat is to exit the GU at Brentford, head up the Thames to the K&A, across to Bath, Bristol, Avonmouth and on up to Tewkesbury. You'd have to watch for the tides at Brentford and as you ventured out onto the tidal Severn...

You would need to check what the navigation regulations are for the tidal river and seaway bits.

 

Could be a "fun" adventure, with some rare views of the Severn Crossings and so on.

[GUMPY]

Its easily done but you have to go the other way!

Down the GU, up the Thames to Reading, over the K&A and on to the Avon at Bath.

OH you meant one of the other Avons

Never mind carry on down the Avon out past Portishead and on to the Severn (estuary) make sure you turn right, up the Severn and then on to the Avon.

 

The Avon in Yorkshire is slightly harder.

[Hairy-Neil]

No you cannot. The Blue Lias bridge at the top of Stockton is only 12ft wide.

 

Rubbish.. Agreed there's a problem at Blue Lias. The channel is the full width but the low arch of the bridge makes the useful channel perhaps around 12ft

 

But then, OP's boat is only 3 - 3.5 metre beam...

 

The narrower bridge at Stockton is further down the flight below Shop Lock, the access road to Warwickshire Fly Boat and the dry dock. This bridge has plenty of headroom but is not full 14ft width as Friends of President found to their error some years ago...

[David Mack]

No. The beam limit is 6ft 10 inches between the GU and the Avon.

 

N

 

No its not. Ex working boats of 7ft and a bit beam manage to do it, albeit with some difficulty sometimes!

 

David

[alan_fincher]

The narrower bridge at Stockton is further down the flight below Shop Lock, the access road to Warwickshire Fly Boat and the dry dock. This bridge has plenty of headroom but is not full 14ft width as Friends of President found to their error some years ago...

My guess is that the badly subsided coping stones at the narrowing of a former bridge just above Grove Lock guarantees you couldn't even get a full 14 foot width boat up the GU as far as Leighton Buzzard, unless it was carrying an air compressor, and some serious stone breaking kit!

 

There doesn't seem to be any urgency to rectify it, and I reckon it is getting narrower.

 

If you want to go from Grove to Leighton lock, seriously, don't try it breasted, as I have seen even a pair of modern nominally 6' 10" beamed boats jammed in here.

[airborne]

THANKS FOR ALL THOSE USEFULL COMMENTS GUYS , MAYBE CHOOSE SOME OTHER ROUTE SOMEWHERE ELSE LIKE GU TO THE ANGLIAN FENS WHEN THE BEDFORD AND MILTON KEYNES WATERWAY FINALLY OPENS , ( DOES ANY MEMBER KNOW WHEN THAT WILL BE ? )

[David Schweizer]

Its easily done but you have to go the other way!

Down the GU, up the Thames to Reading, over the K&A and on to the Avon at Bath.

OH you meant one of the other Avons

Never mind carry on down the Avon out past Portishead and on to the Severn (estuary) make sure you turn right, up the Severn and then on to the Avon.

 

The Avon in Yorkshire is slightly harder.

Well I am definitely right about this one. You cannot use the Bath Bristol route on the Avon at the moment. BW have closed the navigation because Victoria bridge has been declared unsafe.

[IanM]

THE BEDFORD AND MILTON KEYNES WATERWAY FINALLY OPENS , ( DOES ANY MEMBER KNOW WHEN THAT WILL BE ? )

 

It's not even been started!

[RLWP]

THANKS FOR ALL THOSE USEFULL COMMENTS GUYS , MAYBE CHOOSE SOME OTHER ROUTE SOMEWHERE ELSE LIKE GU TO THE ANGLIAN FENS WHEN THE BEDFORD AND MILTON KEYNES WATERWAY FINALLY OPENS , ( DOES ANY MEMBER KNOW WHEN THAT WILL BE ? )

 

Well, if I had to guess, I'd say somewhere around 2032

 

Richard

[David Schweizer]

Rubbish.. Agreed there's a problem at Blue Lias. The channel is the full width but the low arch of the bridge makes the useful channel perhaps around 12ft

 

But then, OP's boat is only 3 - 3.5 metre beam...

 

The narrower bridge at Stockton is further down the flight below Shop Lock, the access road to Warwickshire Fly Boat and the dry dock. This bridge has plenty of headroom but is not full 14ft width as Friends of President found to their error some years ago...

I was not challenging the OP's abilty to get a 3.5 metre boat through Blue Lias bridge, I was challenging Classicstove's asertion that you can a 14 feet wide barge through to Camp Hill, which you could only do if it had no superstructure on it and it was well loaded to prevent the back cabin from hitting the bridge.

Edited November 17, 2011 by David Schweizer

[alan_fincher]

Well, if I had to guess, I'd say somewhere around 2032

 

This evening ???

 

Apart from those promoting it, and even before the very latest economic downturns, by far the most consistent view around these parts is "never".

 

I have been told by quite a few people that know the situation at the "river" end of it that the infrastructure and available moorings there are already barely suitable for current boat numbers, and that it would be a nightmare with the vastly increased numbers if a link to the GU were ever established.

 

That's not reporting my view, (as I simply have never been on those waterways to know), but many feel that way, I believe.

[john6767]

The Waterscape guide says this about the beam on the northern GU, reads rather ambiguously to me.

 

Braunston to Camp Hill Top Lock:

Navigation should be possible for

boats of up to 78ft, but please consult

the waterway office first.

Boats up to 14ft beam may be able to

navigate this section (with the

exception of a 12ft 6in bridge at Blue

Lias, Stockton), but some bridges have

low arches and may not be passable,

depending on cabin profile.

Locks are more than 14ft wide so

two narrowboats can safely share.

[IanM]

The Waterscape guide says this about the beam on the northern GU, reads rather ambiguously to me.

 

So you can get a 78ft x 14ft boat from Braunston to Camp Hill Locks except for the bits where you can't?

Edited November 17, 2011 by IanM

[john6767]

That's what it says to me.

[alan_fincher]

It's odd that that specifically refers to "12ft 6in bridge at Blue Lias, Stockton", rather than any other pinch point.

 

Certainly at water level there is nothing to suggest it is narrowed to anything like that extent, (unless it is much narrower somewhere below the water line).

 

I think what the Waterscape Guide is trying to say is broadly correct, though..... On nearly all of that waterway, a 14 foot craft can navigate, if it's above water profile permits it.

 

The "BW maximum craft dimensions" document actually states that the maximum beam from Braunston to Camp Hill is 12' 6", but adds a similar footnote to that guide.....

 

1. Boats up to 14ft (4.27m) beam may be able to navigate this section, but some bridges have low arches and may not be passable, depending on cabin profile.

[john6767]

So taking those 2 together my assertion would be that it is not a width restriction at the waterline, but rather an above water restriction due to the bridge profile that in many cases limits the practical width to 12' 6".

[alan_fincher]

So taking those 2 together my assertion would be that it is not a width restriction at the waterline, but rather an above water restriction due to the bridge profile that in many cases limits the practical width to 12' 6".

Well, for much of it, in excess of 14 feet is clearly fine, as pairs of narrowboats work through a lot of the locks permamnently breasted up.

 

But I'd also say that, irrespective of what any of the guides say, when Neil says......

 

The narrower bridge at Stockton is further down the flight below Shop Lock, the access road to Warwickshire Fly Boat and the dry dock. This bridge has plenty of headroom but is not full 14ft width as Friends of President found to their error some years ago...

 

he almost certainly speaks the truth, and that it is unlikely to have been "eased" since pairs are known to have got stuck in it.

 

Anyway, the guides are only good until the latest bit of subsidence, or some daft contractor deciding to make good some "defect" by adding 2 inches of concrete on top of anything already present.

 

This is the information currently available on the Historic Narrow Boat Owner's Club website, for the Birmingam main line......

 

Grand Union Canal - Birmingham line

 

Shrewley, Br 59 reported as only 12' 6" beam due to extra concrete added to towpath edge

Blue Lias bridge reported too narrow for breasted pair

Fosse bridge reported too narrow for breasted pair

[john6767]

So which bridge exactly is it at Stockton?

 

Bridge 26 Stockton Lane is this one

 

 

 

and bridge 24 bellow Shop lock is this one

 

 

So if its the one bellow Shop lock then it does look like the limiting factor is waterline width, where the one by the pub could well limit width above waterline.

[Hairy-Neil]

So which bridge exactly is it at Stockton?

 

Both bridges have their own problems. The Bridge by the Blue Lias is, I believe, full width but has a low arch. The one by Shop Lock is less than 14ft wide. Neither bridge will pass a breasted pair.

 

 

But I'd also say that, irrespective of what any of the guides say, when Neil says......

 

The narrower bridge at Stockton is further down the flight below Shop Lock, the access road to Warwickshire Fly Boat and the dry dock. This bridge has plenty of headroom but is not full 14ft width as Friends of President found to their error some years ago..

 

he almost certainly speaks the truth, and that it is unlikely to have been "eased" since pairs are known to have got stuck in it.

 

 

 

And no, I wasn't on the crew at the time.

 

I rememeber seeing an article in Waterways World 20+ years ago, covering the jouurney of L&L short boat, 'Authur' up the Grand Union. There was a photo of it in the bridge hole at Blue Lias with the superstructure against the bridge arch, the point at which they had to turn back.