Long term boat share

[Burgiesburnin]

From 2015/16 I want to buy a narrowboat and spend around 4 months of each year in the "summer months" [mid May to mid September for example] on the boat on the English canal network.

 

Obviously this will mean that for around 7 months the boat will be moored and unattended and I want to avoid this. Although English I don't live in the UK.

 

I would like to hear from anyone that would like to discuss a joint owner-ship arrangement. To give some guide-lines to my initial thoughts, although nothing is as yet cast in stone, I thought the following may be feasable.

 

1] As I would have what are in effect the "prime" season I would pay say 65% of the purchase cost. 30 to 40 000 boat purchase price.

 

2] I would pay 35% on any maintanace required.

 

3] I dont mind where the annual swop over takes place.

 

4] Cosmetic and on going repair/maintanance would be down to whoever was using the boat at the time.

 

5] 2 to 6 birth boat. 54/57 foot.

 

6] I have no real preference for lay-out but would like a decent electricity supply. Maybe with a shore-line.

 

Obviously, the agreement would be a formal one but thats a fair way off yet. Maybe this arrangement would suit someoene retiring [like me] around this time.

[David Mack]

From 2015/16 I want to buy a narrowboat and spend around 4 months of each year in the "summer months" [mid May to mid September for example] on the boat on the English canal network.

 

Obviously this will mean that for around 7 months the boat will be moored and unattended and I want to avoid this. Although English I don't live in the UK.

 

I would like to hear from anyone that would like to discuss a joint owner-ship arrangement. To give some guide-lines to my initial thoughts, although nothing is as yet cast in stone, I thought the following may be feasable.

 

1] As I would have what are in effect the "prime" season I would pay say 65% of the purchase cost. 30 to 40 000 boat purchase price.

 

2] I would pay 35% on any maintanace required.

 

3] I dont mind where the annual swop over takes place.

 

4] Cosmetic and on going repair/maintanance would be down to whoever was using the boat at the time.

 

5] 2 to 6 birth boat. 54/57 foot.

 

6] I have no real preference for lay-out but would like a decent electricity supply. Maybe with a shore-line.

 

Obviously, the agreement would be a formal one but thats a fair way off yet. Maybe this arrangement would suit someoene retiring [like me] around this time.

 

I'm struggling to see why you think this would be an attractive deal for the other partner in all this. You want to take the prime 4 months, when the days are longer, the weather is generally better, outside the 'stoppage season' and yet you expect to pay only 1/3 of the running costs.

 

Your intended partner is expected to shell out £10-13k for the use of a boat only in the winter months, and to meet 2/3 of the running costs.

 

You give no indication how any decisions relating to the boat would be made. Who decides when money should be spent, or maintenance done, or for example whether you roll your sleeves up and do it yourself, or just pay someone else to do the work?

 

I doubt that any of the shared ownership schemes would be prepared to sell you 1/3 of a boat, and guarantee you the relevant weeks, but it may be worth asking.

 

Otherwise I think your only option is to bite the bullet and buy a boat yourself, paying a boatyard to look after it while you are away.

 

David

[churchward]

I think I agree with David Mack here in that it sounds like you want your cake and eat it.

 

One thought though if you want to get a good agreement in place and have some of the worry about managing a share scheme you could try taking to one the of share management companies and see what they think is viable and engage them to manage it.

[Burgiesburnin]

I'm struggling to see why you think this would be an attractive deal for the other partner in all this. You want to take the prime 4 months, when the days are longer, the weather is generally better, outside the 'stoppage season' and yet you expect to pay only 1/3 of the running costs.

 

Your intended partner is expected to shell out £10-13k for the use of a boat only in the winter months, and to meet 2/3 of the running costs.

 

You give no indication how any decisions relating to the boat would be made. Who decides when money should be spent, or maintenance done, or for example whether you roll your sleeves up and do it yourself, or just pay someone else to do the work?

 

I doubt that any of the shared ownership schemes would be prepared to sell you 1/3 of a boat, and guarantee you the relevant weeks, but it may be worth asking.

 

Otherwise I think your only option is to bite the bullet and buy a boat yourself, paying a boatyard to look after it while you are away.

 

David

Thanks for your reply. I never said that this was an "attractive" deal at all. Is it that you think that I am attempting to entice someone into this that upsets you? I did say however that nothing was "carved in stone" [did you miss that bit?] Hire companies generate two thirds of their annual income over this period and that is what my "guestimate" is based on.

 

Some people live aboard all year round as I hope that you would know. Why you should think it to be unthinkable that someone may want to live aboard for 7 or 8 months of the year and pay say 35% of the initial outlay I wouldnt know. There are many people that an arrangment like this may suit as much as it suits me. Seasonal workers, Students or retirees with family overseas that they wish to visit to name but a few.

 

Your other comments with reference to who pays for what and who decides what should be spent and by whom and if "sleeves are rolled up" are all aspects that would be agreed by the parties concerned. It could well be that I pay non of the maintanance or all and again I refer you to the bit you missed about nothing being carved in stone.

 

It is not inconceivable to me that there may be someone that has limited funds and a passion for the canal network that would enjoy spending two thirds of the year on the network. It could well be that there is someone that owns a boat and wants to sell part of it to avoid not being able to afford it anymore. Who knows, one thing is for sure, If I dont ask I am unlikley to find out. It could also be that the other party has a couple of weeks in the middle of the period that I have mentioned and if that so then this will all be agreed.

 

The point is that I would much prefer to own the boat and use it all year round, maybe even live aboard. My situation and obligations to family and business in South Africa do not accomodate this.

[14skipper]

Some people live aboard all year round as I hope that you would know. Why you should think it to be unthinkable that someone may want to live aboard for 7 or 8 months of the year and pay say 35% of the initial outlay I wouldnt know. There are many people that an arrangment like this may suit as much as it suits me. Seasonal workers, Students or retirees with family overseas that they wish to visit to name but a few.

 

So your partner/ sharer can live on it for 7 or 8 months of the year and then find somewhere else to live when you require use of it .and one would imagine you would require use of it during the "summer months "

Would have thought that is when a seasonal worker would require it ?

 

14Skipper

Edited October 4, 2011 by 14skipper

[Dovetail]

I think it will be better if you buy the boat yourself, put it in a marina when you are not in the country, and then perhaps look to rent the boat out on a short leas to help with the cost.

[bottle]

rent the boat out on a short lease

 

But then 'we' get into the realms of having to comply with all the requirements (BW) for leasing/renting out a boat.

 

licence, insurance, more stringent BSS, car parking facilities, maintenance/repair, breakdown. etc.

[Burgiesburnin]

So your partner/ sharer can live on it for 7 or 8 months of the year and then find somewhere else to live when you require use of it .and one would imagine you would require use of it during the "summer months "

Would have thought that is when a seasonal worker would require it ?

 

14Skipper

Not if they do holiday work in Spain or in Jersey as my sister does.

[Burgiesburnin]

I think I agree with David Mack here in that it sounds like you want your cake and eat it.

 

One thought though if you want to get a good agreement in place and have some of the worry about managing a share scheme you could try taking to one the of share management companies and see what they think is viable and engage them to manage it.

 

I have spoken to a boat builder and they seem very receptive. The basis would be that I buy the boat and they then rent it back from me while I am away. They want to use it for a "try before you buy" promotion. They have guaranteed 16 weeks "rental" as a minimum although we have not yet agreed a rental price.They would look after it when I am not here at their expence. If they use the boat more than 16 weeks then they will obviously pay more. What this amounts to is that I am financing their demo unit. The part of this that doesnt appeal to me is that if I bought a new boat then I wouldnt want other people using it. Hence, my thinking around a second hand boat.

 

By the way, the boat builder contacted me, I didnt contact them with the proposal.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Burgiesburnin

[gary955]

This forum is extraordinary!! It seems full of unnecesary hostility. Virtually every thread decends into squabbling and back biting with the overriding tone being one of condescention.

The OP seemed to me to be almost thinking aloud. He didn't know if, nor suggest that his proposal was reasonable, he was simply putting it out there as a possible way of spending the summers on our canal system. He recognised that he was expecting to use the boat in the prime season and his thoughts on financing two thirds of the purchase for one third of the use seems like a reasonable point to open negotiations to me.

Nothing in his post deserved scorn.........Be nice

[WJM]

If you want an easy life, buy your own boat, set it up how you want it, keep it in a marina when you are not using it and pay someone to check it over when you are away. Simple.

[Dovetail]

Sorry twitchy finger

Edited October 4, 2011 by Dovetail

[carlt]

This forum is extraordinary!! It seems full of unnecesary hostility..........Be nice

Shut up, poo face!

 

It would seem to me that this forum has provided the OP with a pretty attractive deal, assuming he hasn't being "thinking aloud" elsewhere, so, even if some people criticise, which you should expect on any forum, it has still proved itself useful.

 

This forum isn't extraordinary, btw, in my experience it seems pretty normal, apart from those stifled by over moderation.

[jonk]

You might speak to 'Escape The Rat Race' who do similar schemes - 'rent' out your boat long term when you are not using it in return for the rental achieved. They do all the maintenance, licencing etc out of their rental take. Don't know whether your months required would suit them though but might be worthwhile speaking to Alex who runs the business.

 

John

[churchward]

I have spoken to a boat builder and they seem very receptive. The basis would be that I buy the boat and they then rent it back from me while I am away. They want to use it for a "try before you buy" promotion. They have guaranteed 16 weeks "rental" as a minimum although we have not yet agreed a rental price.They would look after it when I am not here at their expence. If they use the boat more than 16 weeks then they will obviously pay more. What this amounts to is that I am financing their demo unit. The part of this that doesnt appeal to me is that if I bought a new boat then I wouldnt want other people using it. Hence, my thinking around a second hand boat.

 

By the way, the boat builder contacted me, I didnt contact them with the proposal.

That does sound like and alternative. I tend to agree though that renting would be a less preferred option but at least the boat builder would be managing it for you which would help. There other thing though that could make this a better option than just renting in the open market is that anyone who rents is a prospective buyer from the boat builder so is likely to be more caring about the boat than say an all male stag do dressed as pirates!!

 

When the boat is shared ownership at least the other party or parties has some skin in the game and a reason to keep the asset looking good and well maintained. Since you will be remote from the boat a good portion of the time I do think a share management company would be a worthwhile option to consider. It will cost money to do but you could get a better agreement out of it and the boat looked after properly while your away.

 

From what you have said I think you need to consider the eventuality of what happens when you want to sell your share or indeed buy out any other shares. The agreement should be written to cover this eventuality.

Edited October 4, 2011 by churchward

[Burgiesburnin]

If you want an easy life, buy your own boat, set it up how you want it, keep it in a marina when you are not using it and pay someone to check it over when you are away. Simple.

 

Not looking for an easy life, dont know where you got that from. I am looking to spend some time on the canal network. People do it I have heard.

[Burgiesburnin]

This forum is extraordinary!! It seems full of unnecesary hostility. Virtually every thread decends into squabbling and back biting with the overriding tone being one of condescention.

The OP seemed to me to be almost thinking aloud. He didn't know if, nor suggest that his proposal was reasonable, he was simply putting it out there as a possible way of spending the summers on our canal system. He recognised that he was expecting to use the boat in the prime season and his thoughts on financing two thirds of the purchase for one third of the use seems like a reasonable point to open negotiations to me.

Nothing in his post deserved scorn.........Be nice

Thank you for that Gary, its better coming from you rather than me. I like this forum and have gained a hell of a lot of info from it. I spend about an hour per day reading it and have often been amazed at the lengths people have gone to to offer solutions to boat related issues. I would doubt that this amount experience can be bought.

 

However, have you noticed a marked increase in posts that start with terms like..........."this may be a silly question but" almost an apology up front that is hoped to ward of the inevitable attackers.

 

You might speak to 'Escape The Rat Race' who do similar schemes - 'rent' out your boat long term when you are not using it in return for the rental achieved. They do all the maintenance, licencing etc out of their rental take. Don't know whether your months required would suit them though but might be worthwhile speaking to Alex who runs the business.

 

John

 

Great, thanks for the info. No harm in speaking to them.

 

Jim

[Burgiesburnin]

That does sound like and alternative. I tend to agree though that renting would be a less preferred option but at least the boat builder would be managing it for you which would help. There other thing though that could make this a better option than just renting in the open market is that anyone who rents is a prospective buyer from the boat builder so is likely to be more caring about the boat than say an all male stag do dressed as pirates!!

 

When the boat is shared ownership at least the other party or parties has some skin in the game and a reason to keep the asset looking good and well maintained. Since you will be remote from the boat a good portion of the time I do think a share management company would be a worthwhile option to consider. It will cost money to do but you could get a better agreement out of it and the boat looked after properly while your away.

 

From what you have said I think you need to consider the eventuality of what happens when you want to sell your share or indeed buy out any other shares. The agreement should be written to cover this eventuality.

You have hit on the aspect which could give the most problems in what would happen if one party wanted to sell. The best that I have come up with is that I would lodge an amount equal to the other parties share with an Attorney. Obviously I would expect a decent amount of notice before the partner pulls out to make alternative arrangments. The amount say 15000 would depreciate annually. It could well be that the partner gets out say 10 000.00 if he/she wants to sell after 5, 7 10 years, who knows. Again, not carved in stone and can be agreed.

 

As you have also rightly picked up, my objective is not to leave the boat covered in leaves and apparantly neglected through the winter and at the same time minimise my costs. A person with a vested interest would see to this, hopefully.

[Burgiesburnin]

So your partner/ sharer can live on it for 7 or 8 months of the year and then find somewhere else to live when you require use of it .and one would imagine you would require use of it during the "summer months "

Would have thought that is when a seasonal worker would require it ?

 

14Skipper

 

 

Not if they do holiday work in Spain or in Jersey as my sister does.

[mayalld]

I have spoken to a boat builder and they seem very receptive. The basis would be that I buy the boat and they then rent it back from me while I am away. They want to use it for a "try before you buy" promotion. They have guaranteed 16 weeks "rental" as a minimum although we have not yet agreed a rental price.They would look after it when I am not here at their expence. If they use the boat more than 16 weeks then they will obviously pay more. What this amounts to is that I am financing their demo unit. The part of this that doesnt appeal to me is that if I bought a new boat then I wouldnt want other people using it. Hence, my thinking around a second hand boat.

 

By the way, the boat builder contacted me, I didnt contact them with the proposal.

 

I suspect that by the time you factor in a hire boat licence, more stringent BSC, extra insurance costs, extra depreciation, there isn't actually any financial advantage in the arrangement.

 

The problem is that the utility value of a boat is quite heavily concentrated in the summer months, and you will be using it yourself then. There is very little residual value in the rest of the year, and the costs of realising this residual value make it difficult to achieve.

 

Not if they do holiday work in Spain or in Jersey as my sister does.

 

Have you considered inviting your sister to be the other half of your scheme then?

[matty40s]

 

Have you considered inviting your sister to be the other half of your scheme then?

 

I am sure his sister is not the only non-spanish person working in Spain Dave, even with the present Euro-debt difficulties

Edited October 4, 2011 by matty40s

[mayalld]

I am sure his sister is not the only non-spanish person working in Spain Dave, even with the present Eusr-debt difficulties

 

Indeed not.

 

I merely postulate that as his Sister's lifestyle would seem idealy suited to entering into this arrangement, he might find a sharer without needing to look further...