Springer Boats

[uncle bede]

That's a real shame. He was a very helpful bloke. I enjoyed his boat build threads.

[alan_fincher]

But copyright problems might arise if you incorporate design features the origin of which can easily be attributed to a particular person or company, and in narrow boat terms, the combination of V or U shaped hull and the "moustache" at the bows were undoubtedly originated by Sam Springer, so I suspect that this design is copyright.

 

Our 1936 "Middle Northwich" Grand Union Canal carrying Company boat "Sickle" has a "V" bottom, so I think we can say that such arrangements are something that pre-dates Sam Springer building his tubs by quite a large margin.

 

And yes the "whiskers" are just a cheap imitation of what had existed on many barges over the decades.

 

I often wonder if he took his inspiration for the sterns from some of the BCN day boats that had been crudely converted by Harris Brothers for leisure use......

 

[carlt]

That is the nicest Sierra bodykit I have ever seen.

[David Mack]

 

 

I'll be at Crick on Sunday though to once again point and laugh at some shoddy craftsmanship and appreciate the ones built by people who know how to craft steel plate.

 

 

 

I think you'll find that most of those who really know how to craft steel plate won't be at Crick. They get enough business by word of mouth that they simply don't need to advertise at the shows.

[Naughty Cal]

That is the nicest Sierra bodykit I have ever seen.

Noble robbed the Mondeo stores for the M400

[alan_fincher]

I'll be at Crick on Sunday though to once again point and laugh at some shoddy craftsmanship and appreciate the ones built by people who know how to craft steel plate.

You will not find ever a single boat exhibited at Crick that is built by the very best British narrow boat builders.

 

All the top flight builders have no trouble filling their build slots, and get at least as much trade as they can handle by word of mouth and general reputation.

 

There may be some fine boats at Crick, but those showing them clearly feel the need to be involved in this very costly exercise to keep promoting their boats.

 

The best builders will be back at their yards, just getting on with what they do best.

[Tuscan]

I thought the rivetted boat company looked quite a capable outfit , I think you are perhaps a bit to quick to dismiss the quality of some of this years exhbitors and some of the others even dare I say it Hudson. The market is tight for all at the moment but thats hopefully a positive as some of the cowboys who have never exhibited fall by the wayside.

 

We went to Crick when we were thinking of having a boat built but I found the arrogance of some the exhibitors and the difficulty of getting on the majority of the boats not worth the hassle, but this was a 4/5 years ago when the market was still very strong, dare say they will be more welcoming now.

[cheshire~rose]

I am sure that many of the companies exhibiting boats there will be perfectly competant and capable - however the cost of exhibiting at such an event is huge and that cost has to be borne by someone so perhaps if people who want a boat building seek out some of the quality builders who do not have such a high budget for promotional activities they may actually be getting a better deal for their money

[Athy]

You will not find ever a single boat exhibited at Crick that is built by the very best British narrow boat builders.

 

 

Indeed, Mel Davis no longer exhibits there - I think it's three years since he last brought a boat down, which tends to support your point.

[alan_fincher]

There can be no doubt that if you buy a Hudson boat to some extent you must be contributing to his costs in taking several boats to several large shows each year.

 

The costs are very considerable, and Hudson, (and indeed anybody else), are not doing it as an act of philanthropy.

 

As CR says, if you find a builder who does not feel the need to do this, you may well get a better boat for the same (or less) money.

 

The downside is that you will find you are on for a long wait with the very best builders, unless you are able to find a slot caused by somebody else's change of circumstances. I've not investigated, but in some cases we are certainly talking years for the really top flight people.

 

I don't have a problem with builders showing boats, but ultimately it must find its way into the price those boats get marketed for.

[carlt]

I don't think Springer invented those "moustaches" (splash boards? splash guards?) Surely they had been a feature of river barges for some years before Springer commenced production.

I think you are getting mixed up with Hudson's early attempts at a Sheffield Keel replica, before he switched his attentions to Joshers...

 

[Athy]

Apparently before he developed the washer rivet too.

Alan, if a builder takes a boat to a show, all his expenses in so doing will be tax-deductible, so perhaps the financial impact on the craft's selling price is not as great as you suspect.

[alan_fincher]

Alan, if a builder takes a boat to a show, all his expenses in so doing will be tax-deductible, so perhaps the financial impact on the craft's selling price is not as great as you suspect.

 

Dunno!

 

Perhaps "Ally" who says she has pulled out of such shows because of the costs might be prepared to tell us what it costs to exhibit even a single boat there these days.

 

Clearly a lot of the builders / fitters have now decided it is not good business sense for them to be there.

 

I think you are getting mixed up with Hudson's early attempts at a Sheffield Keel replica, before he switched his attentions to Joshers...

 

Unfortunately you have forgotten to label your pictures.

 

Which is which, please?

[Athy]

We have similar comments running on two parallel thread tracks, and in the other one she does indeed suggest that the expense was considerable - though I suspect it was her bad experience with (non) compensation after the show closed a day early which swayed her.

[carlt]

Unfortunately you have forgotten to label your pictures.

 

Which is which, please?

That just proves how close to the perfect replica he got before shelving the project when market research revealed that nobody knew that there were canals north of Birmingham.

[uncle bede]

Valid point about the best builders maybe not needing to display their craftsmanship at the shows if they already have good reputations and healthy order books.

 

I've read good reviews of Roger Fuller boats that is a few miles from me and also Longport Marina boatbuilders that is literally down the road but I see little mention by way of advertising and don't remember seeing them at Crick.

[Tuscan]

All marketing is tax deductible so the cost of exhibiting is part of the overall business expense. It's perfectly reasonable to say that some boatbuilders do not need to advertise and can exist on their reputation although I note many of them advertise in the waterways mags etc,

 

It's a bit simplistic to say that all those that do exhibit must be desperate and the quality of their work must be suspect. Assume the same must be said of all the stall holders who pay to exhibit at the Braunston show etc etc.

 

I hope any purchaser of any new build or major piece of kit does their research or asks the forum.

[alan_fincher]

 

It's a bit simplistic to say that all those that do exhibit must be desperate and the quality of their work must be suspect.

And I didn't of course!......................

[MtB]

Not sure I quite agree with you there Alan.

 

Orion Narrowboats at Ashwood built extremely fine boats and had an excellent reputation, but they simply ran out of orders and closed down.

 

Marketing one's skills is more important than you'd think no matter how good you are at your trade, in my opinion and experience.

 

 

MtB

[alan_fincher]

Not sure I quite agree with you there Alan.

 

Orion Narrowboats at Ashwood built extremely fine boats and had an excellent reputation, but they simply ran out of orders and closed down.

 

Marketing one's skills is more important than you'd think no matter how good you are at your trade, in my opinion and experience.

 

 

MtB

I'm not saying it applies in the case you say, but it is not always marketing, it is sometimes pricing.

 

You can build an excellent boat, but if it is similar to, but more expensive than something comparable elsewhere, it is hard to sell it to a discerning customer, however much marketing you do,

[MtB]

I'm not saying it applies in the case you say, but it is not always marketing, it is sometimes pricing.

 

You can build an excellent boat, but if it is similar to, but more expensive than something comparable elsewhere, it is hard to sell it to a discerning customer, however much marketing you do,

 

Yes when I had my first NB hull built by Hancock and Lane many years ago Orion were my first choice, but H&L were WAY cheaper <gasp!>

 

MtB

[Tuscan]

Think you have the answer the best boat builders must be the cheapest brings us neatly round to the title of the thread........

[mark99]

Roger Fuller builds excellent boats he is one of the best (so good I bought one myself). Not sure what his waiting list is like at the mo.

 

 

Valid point about the best builders maybe not needing to display their craftsmanship at the shows if they already have good reputations and healthy order books.

I've read good reviews of Roger Fuller boats that is a few miles from me and also Longport Marina boatbuilders that is literally down the road but I see little mention by way of advertising and don't remember seeing them at Crick.

Edited May 24, 2013 by mark99

[mark99]

You must be near Stoke on Trent boatbuilders too.

 

I've always liked their lines.

 

 

Valid point about the best builders maybe not needing to display their craftsmanship at the shows if they already have good reputations and healthy order books.

I've read good reviews of Roger Fuller boats that is a few miles from me and also Longport Marina boatbuilders that is literally down the road but I see little mention by way of advertising and don't remember seeing them at Crick.

[bargemast]

I think you are getting mixed up with Hudson's early attempts at a Sheffield Keel replica, before he switched his attentions to Joshers...

 

 

I still like "VICTORY" very much, too bad she's so far away.

 

Peter.