Vintage Engines

[Batavia]

Edit to add - the Bolinders 105X series, really marinised tractor engines, were /are often referred to as 'cold start Bolinders', I was following the same sort of language.

 

 

Tim

 

Yes, the wind-up worked - but they were at least factory-marinised tractor engines, with Bolinder's own gearboxes (with special whine noises).

 

Was it Willow Wern who installed the few 1052s in working boats - presumably on the basis of going back to Bolinder and asking if they had anything a bit more modern to replace clapped-out 40 year old semi-diesels?

 

Chris G

PS Leo's assortment of old engines is surrounded by the Southern GU cluster of 105Xs - which can be heard running on demand (probably from Cowroast)

[Timleech]

Yes, the wind-up worked - but they were at least factory-marinised tractor engines, with Bolinder's own gearboxes (with special whine noises).

 

Was it Willow Wern who installed the few 1052s in working boats - presumably on the basis of going back to Bolinder and asking if they had anything a bit more modern to replace clapped-out 40 year old semi-diesels?

 

Chris G

PS Leo's assortment of old engines is surrounded by the Southern GU cluster of 105Xs - which can be heard running on demand (probably from Cowroast)

 

On the subject of 105X gearboxes - I had an enquiry the other day from someone who is having trouble with the clutch adjustment on one, simply following the handbook didn't seem to be very successful for him. Anyone reading this willing to offer advice, that I can pass his contact details to?

 

Incidentally I have a 'preliminary instruction book' here for the 1053 & 1054 marine engines, it refers to a Reintjes as well as a Lohmann & Stolterfoht hydraulic box. Never seen nor heard of one of the last ones.

 

Tim

[Speedwheel]

Yes, the wind-up worked - but they were at least factory-marinised tractor engines, with Bolinder's own gearboxes (with special whine noises).

 

Was it Willow Wern who installed the few 1052s in working boats - presumably on the basis of going back to Bolinder and asking if they had anything a bit more modern to replace clapped-out 40 year old semi-diesels?

 

Chris G

PS Leo's assortment of old engines is surrounded by the Southern GU cluster of 105Xs - which can be heard running on demand (probably from Cowroast)

 

The best engines on the cut don't you think Chris?

There will be one (well a 111) passing Cowroast either tomorrow or more probably Sunday.

 

On the subject of 105X gearboxes - I had an enquiry the other day from someone who is having trouble with the clutch adjustment on one, simply following the handbook didn't seem to be very successful for him. Anyone reading this willing to offer advice, that I can pass his contact details to?

 

Incidentally I have a 'preliminary instruction book' here for the 1053 & 1054 marine engines, it refers to a Reintjes as well as a Lohmann & Stolterfoht hydraulic box. Never seen nor heard of one of the last ones.

 

Tim

 

John Pattles on has a Reintjes box on. Certainly the 1113 that's in Victoria, and also it's twin, (they were a pair from a fishing boat) both had a different gearbox on, but I can't remember the name on it. I will find out.

 

John Pattle is probably your best bet though my dad knows a fair bit about them too. Which boat is it in Tim?

 

Edit to add pic. You can just about see the gearbox but the pic was taken in 2004/5 with a phone camera so quality is not great.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Speedwheel

[Timleech]

The best engines on the cut don't you think Chris?

There will be one (well a 111) passing Cowroast either tomorrow or more probably Sunday.

 

 

 

John Pattles on has a Reintjes box on. Certainly the 1113 that's in Victoria, and also it's twin, (they were a pair from a fishing boat) both had a different gearbox on, but I can't remember the name on it. I will find out.

 

John Pattle is probably your best bet though my dad knows a fair bit about them too. Which boat is it in Tim?

 

Edit to add pic. You can just about see the gearbox but the pic was taken in 2004/5 with a phone camera so quality is not great.

 

 

I don't know the name or location, just an email enquiry.

 

I've dealt with Reintjes before, bl**dy great big ones, but never come across the Lohmann.

 

Edit - that box in the pic isn't either of the two described in my pamphlet, looks more like a mechanical box.

 

Tim

Edited August 26, 2011 by Timleech

[Hairy-Neil]

I have a Dorman 3LB in Independence-a lovely "beating heart" sound. A chap walking the towpath a while back who had worked at Dorman said he remembered them being used in lifeboats and as stationary engines in marshalling yards. I'm told my old girl used to be the standby generator at the John Radcliffe hospital laundry! I have only come across one other 3LB on the cut and never heard of Dormans in work boats but I lead a sheltered life

Mike

 

GUCCCo 'Bath' has a 2 cylinder Dorman fitted.

[Athy]

Joshua, pictures such as the above are known on this site as "engine porn". The accepted procedure is to view the picture and go "Phooaaaahhh" or similar. The above picture certainly evinced (evoked?) that reaction from me!

Not sure if you mentioned earlier in the thread, but are you looking for an engine to install in an existing boat or are you having a new boat built? M'learned friends will be able to proffer ample advice on suitable traditional boatbuilders.

[Joshua]

Joshua, pictures such as the above are known on this site as "engine porn". The accepted procedure is to view the picture and go "Phooaaaahhh" or similar. The above picture certainly evinced (evoked?) that reaction from me!

Not sure if you mentioned earlier in the thread, but are you looking for an engine to install in an existing boat or are you having a new boat built? M'learned friends will be able to proffer ample advice on suitable traditional boatbuilders.

 

 

My working class upbringing forbids public displays of affection, but I assure you the earth moved in the privacy of my home.

My partner and I are currently waiting to complete the sale of our house in France before returning to the UK, we will then look for a second hand boat, if we can’t find what I want, I mean what we want (and judging by what I have seen over the last 6 months its not encouraging) then we will have one built.

I may exercise my artistic talents to do some of the finer paint work but otherwise I will be strictly hands off. I have spent half my life restoring old cars, bikes, planes and houses and I’ve had enough!

I would certainly welcome builder recommendations.

 

Cheers,

 

Joshua

 

P.S. Actually, pictures attached to Forum posts only appear to me when I am not ‘signed in’, not sure why.

[pete harrison]

GUCCCo 'Bath' has a 2 cylinder Dorman fitted.

 

It certainly has, a Dorman 2DWD with a Parsons gearbox - fitted 1981 as a part of BATH's restoration as an unconverted motor and its sixth engine installation.

 

As I have already said ex-working narrow boats have been fitted with almost every type of diesel engine since coming out of trade, and I have researched these at some length. Unfortunately it would be impractical for me to publish all of this information on this Forum.

 

 

I would certainly welcome builder recommendations.

 

Cheers,

 

Joshua

 

 

The only boat builder's I would trust to build a boat for me would be Brinklow Boat Services, Dave Harris, Stockton Dry Dock Company, Roger Fuller - in that order of preference. All of these boat builders have long associations with working narrow boats and all have an eye for detail. None of these boat builders are cheap, and rightfully so.

[Joshua]

It certainly has, a Dorman 2DWD with a Parsons gearbox - fitted 1981 as a part of BATH's restoration as an unconverted motor and its sixth engine installation.

 

As I have already said ex-working narrow boats have been fitted with almost every type of diesel engine since coming out of trade, and I have researched these at some length. Unfortunately it would be impractical for me to publish all of this information on this Forum.

 

 

 

The only boat builder's I would trust to build a boat for me would be Brinklow Boat Services, Dave Harris, Stockton Dry Dock Company, Roger Fuller - in that order of preference. All of these boat builders have long associations with working narrow boats and all have an eye for detail. None of these boat builders are cheap, and rightfully so.

 

I stumbled across quite a good web site this afternoon that has a very helpful data base of marine engines, it seems to provide basic information that can be quickly and easily compared with a very long list of different models.

 

See Here: http://users.skynet.be/sky34301/engdata.html

 

Thanks for the recommendations.

 

Joshua

[Donald Gilchrist]

Joshua, you said your father worked for Lister,OK this has sparked a great topic but if your father worked for Lister you fit a Listor.

[by'eck]

................ then we will have one built.

I may exercise my artistic talents to do some of the finer paint work but otherwise I will be strictly hands off. I have spent half my life restoring old cars, bikes, planes and houses and I’ve had enough!

I would certainly welcome builder recommendations.

 

Cheers,

 

Joshua

 

P.S. Actually, pictures attached to Forum posts only appear to me when I am not ‘signed in’, not sure why.

 

Steve Hudson has about six boats in build at the moment, three of them have Lister JP's fitted. I doubt if any builder has more experience of building boats with them fitted at the moment.

[alan_fincher]

I stumbled across quite a good web site this afternoon that has a very helpful data base of marine engines, it seems to provide basic information that can be quickly and easily compared with a very long list of different models.

 

See Here: http://users.skynet.be/sky34301/engdata.html

 

Thanks for the recommendations.

 

Joshua

 

I also have that page bookmarked, but please be aware it is not complete, and sometimes not particularly accurate.

 

For example the engine that BW re-engined a huge amount of it's working fleet with in the 1950s and 1960s is not listed, despite it almost certainly at one stage being the most common engine to find in a working boat.

 

That engine is the air-cooled Petter PD2.

 

A more "authentic" narrow-boat engine than 90% of what Hudson, Davis, Hawkins or whoever put into a modern boat, IMO.

[Chris Pink]

 

 

That engine is the air-cooled Petter PD2.

 

 

Why do so few of them survive? They may be authentic but there are other considerations, the main one with engines of this era being parts. I considered an AS2 but when told the only source of parts was another engine I went for a Lister. It's no co-incidence they were one of the last manufacturers to continue supplying parts for the older engines and that they are so common.

[Timleech]

Why do so few of them survive? They may be authentic but there are other considerations, the main one with engines of this era being parts. I considered an AS2 but when told the only source of parts was another engine I went for a Lister. It's no co-incidence they were one of the last manufacturers to continue supplying parts for the older engines and that they are so common.

 

One reason is their propensity for breaking crankshafts

They're also not as accessible to work on as are Armstrongs and Lister H aircooled though that might not be a major factor here.

Armstrongs are the nicest of the three to work on IMO.

 

There were some decent imported pistons for the Armstrong available a few years ago, I don't know whether that's still the case.

 

Tim

[Speedwheel]

Armstrongs are the nicest of the three to work on IMO.

 

I have a soft spot for Armstrongs. The one I had in Satellite was excellent.

 

Brinklow Boat Services, Dave Harris, Stockton Dry Dock Company, Roger Fuller - in that order of preference.

 

I'll add Norton Canes to that.

[Batavia]

 

I'll add Norton Canes to that.

 

Are you planning to stay away from Braunston for a while, then?!!

 

Chris G

[Speedwheel]

Are you planning to stay away from Braunston for a while, then?!!

 

Chris G

 

Top of the list obviously - that goes with out saying!

[mykaskin]

coburn & Cowpar had single cylinder gardners from new - most still do

 

 

for example.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[Joshua]

Thanks MyKaskin, and god help me if my girlfriend ever sees those video’s, particularly the ‘starting’ of Swan, the kiss of death for any ambitions I might have for an engine room, I would be totally defenceless!

 

Joshua

[koukouvagia]

Thanks MyKaskin, and god help me if my girlfriend ever sees those video's, particularly the 'starting' of Swan, the kiss of death for any ambitions I might have for an engine room, I would be totally defenceless!

 

Joshua

 

You'd better not let her see me trying to start the

- an engine very similar to the Gardner. I could never get the blowlamp to light!

 

The sad thing is since I sold the Seffle it has been languishing unused and unloved for over twelve years. The present owner doesn't seem to want either to put it in a boat or sell it.

[bargemast]

On the subject of 105X gearboxes - I had an enquiry the other day from someone who is having trouble with the clutch adjustment on one, simply following the handbook didn't seem to be very successful for him. Anyone reading this willing to offer advice, that I can pass his contact details to?

 

Incidentally I have a 'preliminary instruction book' here for the 1053 & 1054 marine engines, it refers to a Reintjes as well as a Lohmann & Stolterfoht hydraulic box. Never seen nor heard of one of the last ones.

 

Tim

 

 

Hello Tim,

 

an english friend of mine owned a luxemotor in the early 80's with a 2 cylinder Benz of 60Hp and he had a Lohmann & Stolterfoht hydraulic gearbox behind it, his barge was called "Elizabeth"

 

Nowadays she's called "Europe Odyssée" and has done a huge trip a few years after they bought the barge of my friend, they went from Paris to Moscow, but broke and replaced the engine underway, she now has a Baudouin DNP-4 engine and does trips on the Canal du Midi.

This is their web-site in case you're interested : My link , if you click on the english flag it will be in english, and if you click on "the barge" you'll see the details of the barge, but with a BIG mistake, as they write that the barge was built in Belgium, probably after reading "WOUBRUGGE" in their meetbrief of which they made "BRUGGE" , but the shipyard "De Dageraad" belongs to one of the most famous Luxemotor building yards of the past named "BOOT" they were the owners of the "INDUSTRIE" engine factory too.

 

BTW. those gearboxes are not unknown in Holland, here is a site to show you that they still can be repaired : My link

 

 

Cheers,

 

Peter.

[andywatson]

Joshua,

The boat you have specified in your earlier posts is pretty close to what I'm having built by Dave Harris at present.

My build record from a pile of steel to present which you might find of interestis:

 

http://walkerstug.blogspot.com/

 

If the link doesn't work google "harris watson narrowboat build"

 

 

 

 

 

See also a couple of classy boats built by Brinklow:

 

http://nbsiskin.com/

 

http://www.tunneltug.co.uk/

 

Edit to add Ian Kemp to the list of elite boatbuilders

Edited August 27, 2011 by andywatson

[robkg]

Hi Joshua and all,

I have a Kelvin K2 in my boat and having read this thread, thought a couple of comments may be slightly misleading.

The K2 is not that big in practical terms. It is taller than the others, but who needs loads of space above it.

I estimate that I have got about 2'6" between the top of the engine and the ceiling.

My engine room is 7' 6" long, and this allows masses of space including enough room for a normal back cabin door to swing fully open behind the gearbox.

The starting from cold procedure is in reality childs play and only takes a few minutes. Warm start is the same as any other diesel engine.

The only negative point I can think of with the K series Kelvins is the way the whole boat rocks slightly on tickover (doesn't bother me but some may find it annoying).

As for the 'show off' element, we typically get about five 'lovely engine/lovely sound' comments per day.

 

Here is a pic showing the engine height.

 

Rob

 

[XAlan W]

You'd better not let her see me trying to start the

- an engine very similar to the Gardner. I could never get the blowlamp to light!

 

The sad thing is since I sold the Seffle it has been languishing unused and unloved for over twelve years. The present owner doesn't seem to want either to put it in a boat or sell it.

 

Did your SEFFLE ever have the [Glowplug] engine heater & the compression bleed/ air start mech. The one I had in LILY had a bracket bolted to the front of the cylinder with a Bosch dynamo mounted & a belt around the flywheel, a switch on the bracket to supply power to the plug . Approx 1to2 mins to heat enough to start. Still had the pin in the flywheel if all else failed. I became very fond of that motor

[koukouvagia]

Did your SEFFLE ever have the [Glowplug] engine heater & the compression bleed/ air start mech. The one I had in LILY had a bracket bolted to the front of the cylinder with a Bosch dynamo mounted & a belt around the flywheel, a switch on the bracket to supply power to the plug . Approx 1to2 mins to heat enough to start. Still had the pin in the flywheel if all else failed. I became very fond of that motor

 

I had four methods of starting the Seffle.

 

The air start one was not brilliant. It took a long while to charge up the air bottle and only had enough air charge for a couple of goes. If it didn't start then, I had to revert to one of the other methods. Also I didn't like using the air start because I never had the vessel pressure tested and I was always afraid it might explode sending shrapnel everywhere.

 

I also had "fireworks". These were paper cartridges which were inserted in a special holder and lit. Very effective, but I was never able to source a supply when I'd used them all.

 

I had an electric glowplug arrangement which was fine until the element burnt out. Again I never found a replacement supplier. I resorted to bits of coiled copper wire which lasted a few months before burning out again.

 

I then discovered that Seffle made a special quick start plug which was heated up by the blowlamp. This one was solid copper and was much faster than the hollow cast iron one which was on the engine when I first had it. This was the method I normally used. I never had much trouble starting the Seffle. The blow lamp usually took about 15-20 minutes to heat up. I did what lots of semi diesel owners do – and used propane burner instead of a blowlamp.

 

Seffle also made a special burner nozzle which was attached to fuel line and a compressed air container (rather like a garden weed sprayer). Nice piece of kit, but I never got round to fitting it, so I don't know how effective it would have been.

Edited August 28, 2011 by koukouvagia