Seeking a part of a boat, but not knowing its name!

[Robin2]

Oh, there is another use for them/it - to tie off the bottom cloths.

 

I don't know what you mean by "bottom cloths" - are they the bottoms of the tarpaulins covering the cargo? If so it seems to me that the rings are set too high, and for that purpose would more likely have been attached to the side of the cabin rather than the end.

[PhilR]

I don't know what you mean by "bottom cloths" - are they the bottoms of the tarpaulins covering the cargo? If so it seems to me that the rings are set too high, and for that purpose would more likely have been attached to the side of the cabin rather than the end.

 

Look at the photo in post #31 for an example of top and side (bottom) cloths. The rings being discussed in this thread have nothing to do with cloths.

Edited August 22, 2011 by PhilR

[Tam & Di]

Might they have had some use in loading or unloading? Holding the hold in position relative to a wharf crane for instance.

 

As usual there is a lot of dogmatic nonsense written by people who don't have an original working narrow boat and have not looked properly at one. Unfortunately I think Steve Hudson may be amongst these as he does not appear to understand what a rail is for and has put something on his craft that does not really serve the same purpose. I suppose it's a bit like someone sticking metal blobs on a hull 'cause they thought that boats have metal blobs, without realising that the real ones were rivet heads which hold the boat together.

 

A back end rail is multi functional and many of the potential uses have now been mentioned. Leo is correct too that they are sometimes used when loading. You tie a heavy weight, known as a log, to a line dropped over into the other craft and this can hold the two boats together without having to constantly adjust the length of lines. We used 56lb weights, but a heavy bit of timber would serve the same purpose.

 

We also learned to use them when we were breasted up on the tideway. If you breast up conventionally the boats can come apart at the bottom and lean in against each other, sometimes with disastrous results. We took a long line from the rail under the two boats and back to the rail to prevent this.

 

I don't imagine the original design brief (by which I probably mean pencil sketch on the back of an envelope) limited them to any one purpose - they are just generally useful "thingeys".

Edited August 22, 2011 by Tam & Di

[Speedwheel]

The rings being discussed in this thread have nothing to do with cloths.

 

You tie the end of the side cloths up to the rings/rail.

 

Not a very good picture but the best I can find at the moment.

 

 

We also learned to use them when we were breasted up on the tideway. If you breast up conventionally the boats can come apart at the bottom and lean in against each other, sometimes with disastrous results. We took a long line from the rail under the two boats and back to the rail to prevent this.

 

Mum used to do the same thing with Badsey and Barnes - I believe as a result of your advice.

 

Edit to add pic - what a handsome fellow!

 

Edited August 22, 2011 by Speedwheel

[Robin2]

You tie the end of the side cloths up to the rings/rail.

 

Not a very good picture but the best I can find at the moment.

 

That picture is not very convincing - mainly because the topic of interest is these brackets with rings, not the bar that runs across the boat,

 

 

 

Also, there is a difference between the use you make of something that is already there and the purpose for which it was made.

[sharpness]

Are they also upside down?

 

Tim

We dont have a Davis boat but from memory, often a bit ropey, they are the same way up as the Hudson ones.

 

Steve

[Tam & Di]

Mum used to do the same thing with Badsey and Barnes - I believe as a result of your advice.

 

Edit to add pic - what a handsome fellow!

 

 

 

Aaaaaaaaaagh! I hope I look a bit better now. That must be after the end of 1973 as they were wooden barrels till then. I can't remember when I put new doors on Towcester and I seem to have mislaid my logbooks at the moment. In fact everything looks pretty grotty in that photo - there's not even any brass on the chimney. I don't even know why I'm singled out - we'd normally go up abreast in short pounds. Thanks for putting it on though - I've not seen it before.

[Tam & Di]

That picture is not very convincing - mainly because the topic of interest is these brackets with rings, not the bar that runs across the boat,

 

 

Also, there is a difference between the use you make of something that is already there and the purpose for which it was made.

 

Some bits of apparatus are not made with one specific use in mind. Narrowboats will generally have a t-stud at the fore end. How many variants of use can you think of for them? Let's just start with tying to the bank, hanging a bow fender on, to put a line on which holds the fore end of two boats together, to take a line from here to a craft in front when being towed, hanging a bottle of white wine on so it is in the water and cools down ........ This is another bit of kit you certainly don't use as a lifting point on the end of a crane though.

 

I must say that it struck me as odd that the OP wants the rings although he did not know their name or function(s) - whether he will be any wiser now is a matter of conjecture at this point.

[Robin2]

Some bits of apparatus are not made with one specific use in mind.

 

Very few parts are added to commercial equipment without there being a specific need and they will be engineered to the lowest possible cost that meets that need. (Eg read Gibbo's various comments about the new super-duper Smartgauge).

[FadeToScarlet]

Very few parts are added to commercial equipment without there being a specific need and they will be engineered to the lowest possible cost that meets that need. (Eg read Gibbo's various comments about the new super-duper Smartgauge).

 

Yes, and the need for the back-end rail or back end rings was as the equivalent of the centre line loop on modern boats. That's the closest equivalent bit of a modern boat which fulfils the same purpose.

[Timleech]

Yes, and the need for the back-end rail or back end rings was as the equivalent of the centre line loop on modern boats. That's the closest equivalent bit of a modern boat which fulfils the same purpose.

 

....as was pointed out by Alan in post no.5

 

Tim

[Robin2]

Yes, and the need for the back-end rail or back end rings was as the equivalent of the centre line loop on modern boats. That's the closest equivalent bit of a modern boat which fulfils the same purpose.

 

I am convinced about the rail - after all its just a bit of round bar riveted or welded to the boat.

 

However the angled brackets with rings attached require more explanation. For example why didn't they just put a short rail at each side if all that was needed was somewhere to tie a rope. Those brackets were designed for a specific purpose directly connected to the angle they were set at.

[Speedwheel]

Those brackets were designed for a specific purpose directly connected to the angle they were set at.

 

Well you clearly seem to know more than everyone else so why are you asking?

[Tam & Di]

I am convinced about the rail - after all its just a bit of round bar riveted or welded to the boat.

 

However the angled brackets with rings attached require more explanation. For example why didn't they just put a short rail at each side if all that was needed was somewhere to tie a rope. Those brackets were designed for a specific purpose directly connected to the angle they were set at.

 

As you discount every response you don't like, why not write/e-mail Hudson and ask him. None of us will convince you.

[bizzard]

The rail looks like a mainsheet traveler for when its under sail, or just maybe a handrail like on buses.

[Chris Pink]

The rail looks like a mainsheet traveler for when its under sail, or just maybe a handrail like on buses.

 

No, it's to tie the goats to

[Robin2]

As you discount every response you don't like, why not write/e-mail Hudson and ask him. None of us will convince you.

 

I thought it was accepted here that the Hudson version is upside down - which is not much of a recommendation for his advice.

 

I will be convinced when someone comes up with an answer that is supported by historical evidence or by engineering and operational logic. What's the point in being satisfied with answers like "well I use it for ..."

[Chris Pink]

I thought it was accepted here that the Hudson version is upside down - which is not much of a recommendation for his advice.

 

I will be convinced when someone comes up with an answer that is supported by historical evidence or by engineering and operational logic. What's the point in being satisfied with answers like "well I use it for ..."

 

 

How do you know it's upside down if you don't believe what people tell you they are for?

[nicknorman]

As you discount every response you don't like, why not write/e-mail Hudson and ask him. None of us will convince you.

Steve doesn't do email! I did ask him what they were, I'm scared to post the answer because I am not sure I remember it correctly and will no doubt get my head bitten off by this friendly forum, but I think it was something to do with bracing the top of a boat loaded with loose stuff (coal etc) to stop its sides splaying. In the case of a modern boat, its clearly only decorative though it does have a couple of minor uses as have been suggested earlier. Not sure that it makes that much practical difference which way up it is unless the load is more or less along the line of the cabin side - if the pull is forward at all the peeling effect is the same whatever way up it is!

 

I quite like ours anyway whichever way up they should be (ducks for cover)

[Robin2]

How do you know it's upside down if you don't believe what people tell you they are for?

 

I don't "know". I am just trying to summarize the collective view on this forum based on a picture that somebody posted of an old boat with original fittings that are the opposite way round to the Hudson version. Unless, of course, you think they were a later and incorrect addition to the old boat?

[Timleech]

Steve doesn't do email! I did ask him what they were, I'm scared to post the answer because I am not sure I remember it correctly and will no doubt get my head bitten off by this friendly forum, but I think it was something to do with bracing the top of a boat loaded with loose stuff (coal etc) to stop its sides splaying. In the case of a modern boat, its clearly only decorative though it does have a couple of minor uses as have been suggested earlier. Not sure that it makes that much practical difference which way up it is unless the load is more or less along the line of the cabin side - if the pull is forward at all the peeling effect is the same whatever way up it is!

 

 

Sounds as though he's confusing them with the chains which go across the hold at three points and effectively divide the hold into four roughly equal spaces. None of them anywhere near the cabin/engine room, and they do not appear remotely like the items in question, upside down or otherwise.

 

I don't "know". I am just trying to summarize the collective view on this forum based on a picture that somebody posted of an old boat with original fittings that are the opposite way round to the Hudson version. Unless, of course, you think they were a later and incorrect addition to the old boat?

 

NO

 

Tim

[nicknorman]

Sounds as though he's confusing them with the chains which go across the hold at three points and effectively divide the hold into four roughly equal spaces. None of them anywhere near the cabin/engine room, and they do not appear remotely like the items in question, upside down or otherwise.

I am inclined to agree, perhaps I misunderstood / misremembered what he said. He has been around for quite a while so they are probably based on something that existed, even if now purely for decoration and tying the dog to (if only we had a dog!)

[ditchcrawler]

How do you know it's upside down if you don't believe what people tell you they are for?

I think it was me who asked if it was up side down or said I thought it was, can't be bothered to go back and look. But I don't know it its upside down or not.

[NB Alnwick]

I think it was me who asked if it was up side down or said I thought it was, can't be bothered to go back and look. But I don't know it its upside down or not.

 

The rings on our boat present a third variation in that they appear to point inwards rather than outwards. They are also incredibly strong - although definitely not for lifting the boat out of the water. I once asked Phil what they were for and he said - "they are for tying things to!"

 

Frivolous they may be - but, we find them very useful and you will find also sorts of stuff chained to them such as bicycles, outdoor furniture and, as shown in the picture below, empty gas bottles. On that particular occasion we were getting some gas for an icebound neighbour.

 

[Chris Pink]

I don't "know". I am just trying to summarize the collective view on this forum based on a picture that somebody posted of an old boat with original fittings that are the opposite way round to the Hudson version. Unless, of course, you think they were a later and incorrect addition to the old boat?

 

Now look what you've done.... Made Tim Leech shout.

 

Gosh.