Seeking a part of a boat, but not knowing its name!

[Geoffrey Hammond]

I wonder if someone could help me.

 

On certain new built trad tugs - such as those built by Steve Hudson - there is often a pair of shaped metal fittings either side of the front door set at an angle and with a large ring on them. I quite like the look of them, presume that they serve a good purpose and would quite like a pair fitted on my almost fitted-out boat. My questions are these:

 

1) Do the fittings have a name?

 

2) Are they available to buy or do I need to find a metal worker to fabricate them especially for me?

 

Apologies for the lack of image and for the slightly inexact description.

 

Many thanks.

[Timleech]

I wonder if someone could help me.

 

On certain new built trad tugs - such as those built by Steve Hudson - there is often a pair of shaped metal fittings either side of the front door set at an angle and with a large ring on them. I quite like the look of them, presume that they serve a good purpose and would quite like a pair fitted on my almost fitted-out boat. My questions are these:

 

1) Do the fittings have a name?

 

2) Are they available to buy or do I need to find a metal worker to fabricate them especially for me?

 

Apologies for the lack of image and for the slightly inexact description.

 

Many thanks.

 

I don't know whether they have a proper/accepted/historic name, but they are an alternative to the 'back end rail' which is a sort of 'traveller' with a single loose ring right across the front of the engine room on a working motor boat. Some working boats did have the two rings arrangement.

 

Probably a job for your local blacksmith or fabricator (or real boatyard ).

 

Tim

[Guest wanted]

 

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I don't know what they are for, somthing to do with horses maybe?

[Robin2]

Aren't they (pretend?) lifting rings? Presumably for craning the boat out of the water?

[alan_fincher]

Aren't they (pretend?) lifting rings? Presumably for craning the boat out of the water?

 

No!

 

They are as Tim describes.

 

They make sense on a proper tug, with a shortish cabin and a long tug deck, as they can be used in the same way as a back end rail. (Similar uses to which people put a centre ring or stud on the roof of a modern cabined boat.)

 

On a Hudson-like boat with a massive long cabin, in my view they are nothing more than a bit of frivolous decoration, (like the false rivets).

 

(OK, then! Post me a picture of them being used or anything on a Hudson boat!)

[Geoffrey Hammond]

Thank you for all the replies this far.

 

I have learned much, but I am still keen to know:

 

1) if they have a name - and having learned that they appear on some working boat, I would think that they might.

 

2) if anyone can think of a boatbuilder one might approach in order to buy them.

 

Many thanks, again.

[Robin2]

No!

 

They are as Tim describes.

 

They make sense on a proper tug, with a shortish cabin and a long tug deck, as they can be used in the same way as a back end rail. (Similar uses to which people put a centre ring or stud on the roof of a modern cabined boat.)

 

On a Hudson-like boat with a massive long cabin, in my view they are nothing more than a bit of frivolous decoration, (like the false rivets).

 

(OK, then! Post me a picture of them being used or anything on a Hudson boat!)

 

I accept that I may be wrong but I can't envisage the use that you describe. I would appreciate a longer description. For example I don't know what a back end rail is or does.

[nicknorman]

No!

 

They are as Tim describes.

 

They make sense on a proper tug, with a shortish cabin and a long tug deck, as they can be used in the same way as a back end rail. (Similar uses to which people put a centre ring or stud on the roof of a modern cabined boat.)

 

On a Hudson-like boat with a massive long cabin, in my view they are nothing more than a bit of frivolous decoration, (like the false rivets).

 

(OK, then! Post me a picture of them being used or anything on a Hudson boat!)

They are purely decorative, though obviously a throwback to securing rings to tie stuff onto a tug deck or maybe as suggested, as a substitue for a back end rail. So on a Hudson they don't serve much of a practical purpose - we route the satellite cable through one to tidy it up, and when cruising hang strings which looks quite nice.

 

I must say I find it incomprehensible why the same people who paint their boats in more than red oxide (purely for decoration), roll around on the floor frothing at the mouth and wailing at the very thought of other types of decoration such a false rivets and rings. I can only think it's jealousy.

 

As for a source, they are welded all round onto the front bulkhead (the rivet is fake) so perhaps not for self-fitting unless you a good welder and they are something that any Blacksmith could knock out easily, and then weld on for you.

 

I guess you could approach Steve but not sure he would want to do that sort of thing and he is very busy building a huge Dutchbarge at the moment.

 

ETA definitely not for lifting the boat!

Edited August 21, 2011 by nicknorman

[twbm]

They are called 'The rings wot Steve Hudson puts on the front of his cabins'.

 

.. and a back end rail is the, erm, rail across the front end of the back cabin of a motor boat with a big ring that slides across the width of the boat. Used with an attached rope to hold the boat in, moor it up, use as a spring etc.

[Hairy-Neil]

They are called 'The rings wot Steve Hudson puts on the front of his cabins'.

 

.. and a back end rail is the, erm, rail across the front end of the back cabin of a motor boat with a big ring that slides across the width of the boat. Used with an attached rope to hold the boat in, moor it up, use as a spring etc.

 

Hang your wellingtons on...

[Timleech]

They are called 'The rings wot Steve Hudson puts on the front of his cabins'.

 

.. and a back end rail is the, erm, rail across the front end of the back cabin of a motor boat with a big ring that slides across the width of the boat. Used with an attached rope to hold the boat in, moor it up, use as a spring etc.

 

Pedantically, engine room not back cabin.

'Mooring up' is a bit of an odd expression, grates with me I'm afraid. Tie up, or just Tie, or Moor if you really insist (isn't it what yotties do to buoys?), but 'mooring up'?

Sorry, probably just me.

 

Anyway, here's a genuine original pair of back end rings

 

 

and a nicely restrained modern version on an Ian Kemp conversion:-

 

 

 

Tim

[ditchcrawler]

Pedantically, engine room not back cabin.

'Mooring up' is a bit of an odd expression, grates with me I'm afraid. Tie up, or just Tie, or Moor if you really insist (isn't it what yotties do to buoys?), but 'mooring up'?

Sorry, probably just me.

 

Anyway, here's a genuine original pair of back end rings

 

 

 

 

Tim

Glad you posted that. I always felt that the SH ones were up side down. As for retro fit, how about 3 coach bolts, they would look like rivets and could be bolted through the front bulkhead. As for making them, I am sure you could get them done in Braunston or Stretton

[Robin2]

 

Anyway, here's a genuine original pair of back end rings

 

 

I feel justified in my original supposition that the SH ones were for lifting.

 

I'm still not clear what the back end rings (as shown in the photo) were for. From the angle they're at they are clearly meant for a downward and outward load - such as fixing the boat to a mooring ring onshore. But doesn't the boat have cleats or bollards at the stern? And why would they design the mooring point so high up on the boat if it was meant to connect to something low down?

Edited August 21, 2011 by Robin2

[Timleech]

I feel justified in my original supposition that the SH ones were for lifting.

 

I'm still not clear what the back end rings (as shown in the photo) were for. From the angle they're at they are clearly meant for a downward and outward load - such as fixing the boat to a mooring ring onshore. But doesn't the boat have cleats or bollards at the stern? And why would they design the mooring point so high up on the boat if it was meant to connect to something low down?

 

I think if you tried lifting from those SH ones, you would quickly have a rather distorted cabin

 

As Alan (I think) said, they're for tying up, often temporary as you might with a centre line on a modern pleasure boat.

At that height they're clear of the deck and at a handy height for grabbing quickly, no stooping & no tripping hazard.

 

Tim

[Robin2]

I think if you tried lifting from those SH ones, you would quickly have a rather distorted cabin

Thats why I said "pretend" in post#4

 

As Alan (I think) said, they're for tying up, often temporary as you might with a centre line on a modern pleasure boat.

At that height they're clear of the deck and at a handy height for grabbing quickly, no stooping & no tripping hazard.

 

I'm not convinced. I can't see them being more convenient than a bollard at the bow or stern. To be useful at short notice they would need to have a rope through them all the time and the rope would get in the way. From that point of view an attachment on the roof and a rope on the roof would be better. Also I don't believe the working boats were managed so badly as to need anything done "quickly".

 

They look like the sort of connections you would need if you wanted to tie down the whole narrowboat e.g. as deck cargo on a bigger boat - but I don't imagine that was done very often

[Timleech]

Thats why I said "pretend" in post#4

I feel justified in my original supposition that the SH ones were for lifting.

 

 

 

 

I'm not convinced. I can't see them being more convenient than a bollard at the bow or stern. To be useful at short notice they would need to have a rope through them all the time and the rope would get in the way. From that point of view an attachment on the roof and a rope on the roof would be better. Also I don't believe the working boats were managed so badly as to need anything done "quickly".

 

They look like the sort of connections you would need if you wanted to tie down the whole narrowboat e.g. as deck cargo on a bigger boat - but I don't imagine that was done very often

 

They almost certainly would have had a bit of line attached permanently, which could be coiled neatly on the cabin top or the deck/back end planks, out of the way until needed.

 

The whole point is that they are not at the bow or stern

 

Tim

Edited August 21, 2011 by Timleech

[XAlan W]

I feel justified in my original supposition that the SH ones were for lifting.

 

I'm still not clear what the back end rings (as shown in the photo) were for. From the angle they're at they are clearly meant for a downward and outward load - such as fixing the boat to a mooring ring onshore. But doesn't the boat have cleats or bollards at the stern? And why would they design the mooring point so high up on the boat if it was meant to connect to something low down?

with the boat loaded the backend ring was more or less level with the tow path or what ever.As you stepped off the boat in the region of the engine ole doors you took the short length of line fastened to the ring & tied to ring/bollard . The part of the boat from bulkhead to counter provided a pivot point to prevent the fore end swinging across the cut, If it was tied from the stern [dollies]there would be nothing to stop the boat swinging, worked in a similar way to prevent the stern swinging out although this was not as marked as you have more boat forward than aft, gave you time to tie off fore & aft without having to fight it in wind or current. If it did swing out one of Alan F`s looked for 16ft shafts was handy to haul it back in.

[by'eck]

I feel justified in my original supposition that the SH ones were for lifting.

Feel as justified as you like but no way are they going to be used for lifting

 

Here is a closer look for anyone who wants to copy them

 

 

In Steve Hudson's build spec I think they are referred to as bulkhead cabin rings.

Edited August 21, 2011 by richardhula

[Speedwheel]

I think if you tried lifting from those SH ones, you would quickly have a rather distorted cabin

 

At Crick this year, one of the boats with such rings turned up on the back of a truck (I think it was called Achilles). Someone had put the ratched straps through these rings and tightened them up. When the boat arrived it had peeled back the steel on the cabin and looked to have done quite a lot of damage.

[Speedwheel]

They almost certainly would have had a bit of line attached permanently, which could be coiled neatly on the cabin top or the deck/back end planks, out of the way until needed.

 

Ta daa

 

 

The part of the boat from bulkhead to counter provided a pivot point to prevent the fore end swinging across the cut, If it was tied from the stern [dollies]there would be nothing to stop the boat swinging, worked in a similar way to prevent the stern swinging out although this was not as marked as you have more boat forward than aft, gave you time to tie off fore & aft without having to fight it in wind or current.

 

If you tie it off and then put the boat in gear it will pull the boat into the side and hold it there. No pulling required. I rarely use and front or stern line when boating, only when tieing up. Just the backend line and a strapping line when moving.

[Timleech]

Feel as justified as you like but no way are they going to be used for lifting

 

Here is a closer look for anyone who wants to copy them

 

 

In Steve Hudson's build spec I think they are referred to as bulkhead cabin rings.

 

It has to be said that the way those are angled would be more appropriate for a lifting eye, even though they would be completely useless in that role. See the first pic I posted for a more sensible angle for the job.

 

Tim

[Robin2]

Feel as justified as you like but no way are they going to be used for lifting

Here is a closer look for anyone who wants to copy them

 

In Steve Hudson's build spec I think they are referred to as bulkhead cabin rings.

 

Jeez ... all I meant was that my mistake was not unreasonable. I knew from the first glance that they are not actually suitable for lifting - but they might have been poor copies of brackets that were intended for lifting.

 

The pictures from the old boat suggest that the SH version is just a fanciful ornament.

 

And (referring to other comments) I'm still not convinced that the downward facing brackets were simply intended for convenience when mooring. That usage would not require them to be angled downwards, or to be as strong. It could well be that they were designed for another purpose but were used as convenient mooring points.

[twbm]

Pedantically, engine room not back cabin.

'Mooring up' is a bit of an odd expression, grates with me I'm afraid. Tie up, or just Tie, or Moor if you really insist (isn't it what yotties do to buoys?), but 'mooring up'?

Sorry, probably just me.

 

 

Engine room - guilty plea. Moor up? Dunno - all part of the rich flexible usability of the English language I think. Happy to bow out and pour myself a glass of port to avoid a stern lecture. Shan't throw my dolly out of the pram and risk injuring the swans neck. I have never lived in Hull.

[bizzard]

It has to be said that the way those are angled would be more appropriate for a lifting eye, even though they would be completely useless in that role. See the first pic I posted for a more sensible angle for the job.

 

Tim

Maybe they were intended for some kind of bizzare macabre use like staking out by the wrists mutinous crew members,cooks who've poisoned everyone for example.So that everyone can stand back and chuck bad eggs and tomatoes at em. I've seen manacles like that in the London dungeons. Or they could be shroud plate rings to support a mast in the event of the owner wishing to make sail to save fuel.This might be so if a ring on bow and stern for fore and back stays are present too. bizzard

[sharpness]

 

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I don't know what they are for, somthing to do with horses maybe?

 

 

Other varieties are available - RW Davis Northwich Traders have them too.

 

Steve