Owners versus hirers

[carlt]

...he was having a ride as a treat.

 

Either that or, now he was redundant, they were fattening him up for burgers...(Mmmm..Horseburgers)

[Nightwatch]

We were recently moored in Oxford adjacent to College Cruisers. The evening before our morning departure two hire boats were about to leave with both crews consisting of all male crews (about fifteen in total). I have to confess that I thought "there goes potential trouble". How wrong could I be. We met up at Thrup where they were leaving the moorings outside one of the pubs. What a pleasant bunch of chaps they were.

 

Martyn

 

Either that or, now he was redundant, they were fattening him up for burgers...(Mmmm..Horseburgers)

With Horseradish? Is there really horse in Horseradish?

 

Nay! 'pose not

 

Martyn

[carlt]

 

With Horseradish?

That would work but I've always taken my with a dollop of Dijon mustard.

 

When in France...

[Nightwatch]

That would work but I've always taken my with a dollop of Dijon mustard.

 

When in France...

Washed down with....channel Canal No5 perhaps

[churchward]

It seems to be the natural order of things these days to blame all woes and problems on someone or some other group.

 

As well as owners V. hirers type complaints I have also overheard several "working boat" owners complain about liesure/clone boat owners. I had one in particular behind my once who was complaining that going up a flight of locks the 3 clone boats ahead of him were holding him up and he had lost 2 hours due to it. Well, it's true that the single hander ahead was slower and there was a bit of waiting for locks but so what. I don't see why owning an older ex-working boat give anyone the right to get by whenever they want. This was not a coal boat or anyone trading just an owner of a boat running empty boating for pleasure like the rest of us. There are also others who will complain about share boats as well.

 

It is a shame that we have to factionalise things this way. We are all out to enjoy the canals and rivers. We have a common purpose. I own my boat now but have hired many times in the past to way back in the 1970s. I would hire again for example if I wanted to do some of the Scottish canals or indeed hire again to go along the Caledonian canal.

[carlt]

I don't see why owning an older ex-working boat give anyone the right to get by whenever they want.

 

 

It is a shame that we have to factionalise things this way.

I see what you mean

[churchward]

I see what you mean

 

I guess I should have said I don't see why owning any kind of boat gives you the right to get by whenever they want. But assuming you read my whole post rather than the snippets you quoted you will have indeed seen what I meant. Which is we should treat each other equally as we all have an equal right to be there.

[carlt]

I guess I should have said I don't see why owning any kind of boat gives you the right to get by whenever they want. But assuming you read my whole post rather than the snippets you quoted you will have indeed seen what I meant. Which is we should treat each other equally as we all have an equal right to be there.

It was a joke but carry on...

[luctor et emergo]

Soooo, all hire boaters are virtues, and all owners are miserable, speeding, impatient gits. I seem to remember that some time ago, those roles were reversed?

To be honest, here on the K&A, they are pretty equall mixed. Jolly boat owners; speeding hire-ers, some boaters wedging their boat across the cut when a boat appears several chains away.

If you like a laugh, come and visit Bradford on Avon lock, where a hire base, a water point, a winding hole, a lock(landing), a pump-out and elsan are all situated in a 100 yard stretch.... Add the boats from three other hire companies passing out on a Friday,, and your entertainment is assured.

 

And as for the title of this hread, I was looking forward to a Brighton style gathering.

[churchward]

Soooo, all hire boaters are virtues, and all owners are miserable, speeding, impatient gits. I seem to remember that some time ago, those roles were reversed?

I don't think that is the point at all.

 

there are good, virtues hires, owners and so on. Also miserable, speeding and impatient hires, owners etc. or in summary people are people and they are what they bring to the canal no one suddenly becomes one thing or another just because they hire or buy a boat or any other category folk want to pigeon hole people into.

[Smelly]

If you are in hurry you are using the wrong transport system!

 

Yet are there some who would impose their views on other users without consideration of individual circumstances...

 

[churchward]

Yet are there some who would impose their views on other users without consideration of individual circumstances...

 

What????

[Smelly]

What????

 

in summary people are people and they are what they bring to the canal no one suddenly becomes one thing or another

 

If you are in hurry you are using the wrong transport system!

 

Seems a tad incongruous...

[churchward]

Seems a tad incongruous...

What does? I can't really see how the two statements are connected and rather off topic

 

You are making problems where none exist.

 

The statement you quoted is in my sig it represents my view (you will notice this is a passive thing I am neither preaching or ordering people to behave in any particular way) nothing more than that at 4mph you may as well take it easy and relax. After all many of us are on the canal and river systems as a leisure activity so let's enjoy it. That is what I try to do.

[Minos]

This such a controversial subject.

 

If you are inclined to criticise others anyway, then boating will give you a target-rich environment. If you are prone to confirmation bias, then you will find all the evidence you need to further entrench your prejudices.

 

Maybe that's what it takes to make some people happy.

 

Meanwhile, as an owner in a hire boat, I would like to say that I have seen almost no evidence of any difference between the two experiences. But on one occasion an owner explained how to use a lock in very patronising terms, and another owner refused to share a lock - but without exception every other boater, walker & fisher I have seen has smiled, waved back and (when appropriate) talked.

 

So I have to report that a very small minority of owners appear to have issues with hirers which prompt prejudicial assumptions. I wonder what they expect to gain from it...?

[Odana]

It seems to be the natural order of things these days to blame all woes and problems on someone or some other group.

 

As well as owners V. hirers type complaints I have also overheard several "working boat" owners complain about liesure/clone boat owners. I had one in particular behind my once who was complaining that going up a flight of locks the 3 clone boats ahead of him were holding him up and he had lost 2 hours due to it. Well, it's true that the single hander ahead was slower and there was a bit of waiting for locks but so what. I don't see why owning an older ex-working boat give anyone the right to get by whenever they want. This was not a coal boat or anyone trading just an owner of a boat running empty boating for pleasure like the rest of us. There are also others who will complain about share boats as well.

 

 

If proper trading working boats are what kept the canals in business in the past, surely hire boats are the working boats of today? They're pretty much the only profit-earning vessels on the cut nowadays.

 

I'm not sure what the ratio of private: hire: trading boats is nowadays - or more importantly the ratio of those boats' active days on the water (as opposed to being tied up unused). However, without these modern-day working boats and the revenue generated by them for BW, for hire fleets and for canalside businesses our waterways would be far far poorer. Without all the hirers (again, think of the number of people who have ever hired vs the numebr of people who have/aspire to own)our waterways woudl have a far lower profile. We need more hire boats and more happy hirers!

[churchward]

If proper trading working boats are what kept the canals in business in the past, surely hire boats are the working boats of today? They're pretty much the only profit-earning vessels on the cut nowadays.

 

I'm not sure what the ratio of private: hire: trading boats is nowadays - or more importantly the ratio of those boats' active days on the water (as opposed to being tied up unused). However, without these modern-day working boats and the revenue generated by them for BW, for hire fleets and for canalside businesses our waterways would be far far poorer. Without all the hirers (again, think of the number of people who have ever hired vs the numebr of people who have/aspire to own)our waterways woudl have a far lower profile. We need more hire boats and more happy hirers!

I don't think the comparison between the old world of working boats and hire boats is much of a match. all the other leisure boats and marina owners etc who are paying into BW are also earning revenue for the canal owners ie BW. I see us all being much the same in that way ex-working boats, owner boats, share boats and hire boats.

 

I agree though that hire companies and more importantly hirers are needed. new people need to be attracted into the world of canals and rivers and the joys of boating. Many do not wish to own a boat they just want a holiday and that is just fine. As I have said in a previous post I would hire again if I wanted to enjoy a boat holiday somewhere it was difficult to get my boat to (or unsuitable for use there) such as the Caledonian canal.

 

Some of the hirers these days may become boat owners in the future of course.

[Dominic M]

I've only owned a boat for a few weeks. And I'm a couple of days into a hired boat holiday. For the most part, there is no difference between owning and hiring.

 

People in general are just as friendly. It's brilliant.

 

Except...

 

A small minority of people seem to think it is appropriate to talk to hirers like they have communication difficulties, and need simple instructions in short sentences made up of monosyllabic words.

 

That just makes it even funnier when the patronising prat then leaves a bottom paddle open while filling a lock.

These are the same people that go on holiday in France, Italy or Spain and ask for everything in English, and when it doesn't happen, ask for it again in English, with less words, and twice as loudly. Then they pick up a two-day-old copy of the Daily Mail, and say, "Why are we in the EU? They don't even speak English."

[Minos]

I am less interested in the economics of the question than I am in the anthropology.

 

The antagonism between some owners and hirers is, in my experience, very real - though thankfully it is only a tiny minority of pompous arses that are guilty, and I suspect that they are no less unpleasant in their other activities.

 

An old friend of mine argues that boats bring out the worst in some personality types, and for evidence she points to clubs and marinas with reserved spaces for the 'commodore's yacht' (apparently Lionel Richie is a member.) I passed a marina today that was covered with large signs warning members of the dire consequences should they leave anything on a landing or be caught running an engine or (god forbid!) a generator. My friend would have loved that: rows of shiny boats, all confirming her prejudices about prejudicial boat owners.

 

I wouldn't want to assume that the two negative encounters I have had while hiring were both with exclusive marina members, or that they happened because I was in a hire boat. But they happened.

 

A hirer is obviously an outsider. They don't 'belong' on the waterways, and will soon return to their own world, sadly to be replaced by more 'outsiders' but they will leave. All you need is a slightly tribal attitude to the waterways and the people on them and it will be very difficult to stop yourself.

[churchward]

I am less interested in the economics of the question than I am in the anthropology.

 

The antagonism between some owners and hirers is, in my experience, very real - though thankfully it is only a tiny minority of pompous arses that are guilty, and I suspect that they are no less unpleasant in their other activities.

 

An old friend of mine argues that boats bring out the worst in some personality types, and for evidence she points to clubs and marinas with reserved spaces for the 'commodore's yacht' (apparently Lionel Richie is a member.) I passed a marina today that was covered with large signs warning members of the dire consequences should they leave anything on a landing or be caught running an engine or (god forbid!) a generator. My friend would have loved that: rows of shiny boats, all confirming her prejudices about prejudicial boat owners.

 

I wouldn't want to assume that the two negative encounters I have had while hiring were both with exclusive marina members, or that they happened because I was in a hire boat. But they happened.

 

A hirer is obviously an outsider. They don't 'belong' on the waterways, and will soon return to their own world, sadly to be replaced by more 'outsiders' but they will leave. All you need is a slightly tribal attitude to the waterways and the people on them and it will be very difficult to stop yourself.

My economic repsonse to your post was beacuse you stated when refering to hire boats.....

 

They're pretty much the only profit-earning vessels on the cut nowadays.

if we go down other routes then I guess a boat owner can be likened to an owner/operator or "number one" in the old days. That doesn't get us very far though when we are talking about how we treat each other when on the cut hirer or owner. I'd rather not see it that way anyway. I like to think we are all canal enthusiasts or at least there to have a good time.

 

It is no good complaining about people who sling mud at hirers while slinging mud back it won't end the problem. All we can do is decide to rise above it and treat people like we would wish to be treated whether stepping aboard their Viking hire boat or coming out of the yacht club.

[Janet S]

A hirer is obviously an outsider. They don't 'belong' on the waterways, and will soon return to their own world, sadly to be replaced by more 'outsiders' but they will leave.

 

Bollox! We began as hirers almost ten years ago and we remain here! I do hope that comment was meant tongue in cheek!

 

For various reasons it's not practicable for us to buy, so we hire and borrow...who's to say that we don't "belong"? We have more lock miles under our belt than many of the owners around!

 

Janet

[blackrose]

We were all hirers once!

 

I wasn't.

[churchward]

Bollox! We began as hirers almost ten years ago and we remain here! I do hope that comment was meant tongue in cheek!

 

For various reasons it's not practicable for us to buy, so we hire and borrow...who's to say that we don't "belong"? We have more lock miles under our belt than many of the owners around!

 

Janet

Quite so, if you pass us you will always get a wave!

 

I don't think it is a matter of how much use. Anyone whether first-time hirer or old hands like yourself should be treated with a welcome. I have hired, shared and now own a boat. Owning my own boat works for me not least because I enjoy maintaining her and doing all the little jobs and improvements that take me out to see her over the weekends when we are not cruising, well it's a good excuse!!. Of course though owning a boat is not for everyone sharing was good to us for a while and the 25-30 years of hiring before that gave us a lot of great holidays and memories.

[DeanS]

I've discovered the difference between the hirers I've met in the past 2 days and me.

 

They dont mind crashing into other boats, while, although mine is an old one, I try and look after it. I had another set of hirers today who pushed off from the towpath, right in front of me, their stern (yes...stern) stuck out across the canal. They didnt see me because THEY WERE LOOKING FRONTWARDS...I had to slam into reverse, and wait for them to get their act together. It would be fine if I had a bow thruster, but with the wind blowing sideways, I was left without any control of where my bow wanted to go.....while I sat trying to "hover" in mid channel.

 

Most of the hirers I've seen have been day out boats, with a group of (drinking) people..5 round the tiller , and 5 standing in the bow deck.

[Ange]

I've only owned a boat for a few weeks. And I'm a couple of days into a hired boat holiday. For the most part, there is no difference between owning and hiring.

 

People in general are just as friendly. It's brilliant.

 

Except...

 

A small minority of people seem to think it is appropriate to talk to hirers like they have communication difficulties, and need simple instructions in short sentences made up of monosyllabic words.

 

That just makes it even funnier when the patronising prat then leaves a bottom paddle open while filling a lock.

 

We were hirers not so long ago and never forget that. We do have a bit more experience now and do try to pass that on to hirers in a friendly manner. It's bloody embarrassing when you get it wrong though - my fave is when I'm winding the paddle back down and the windlass slips off - such a big noise to announce the fact that I ain't so clever!!!

 

 

At least the hirers are nearly always happy, unlike some of the sour face owners I see.

 

I've mentioned this before but how many times have you seen a grumpy "owner" bloke at the stern, and his Mrs with a face that would scare a police horse sat in the well deck?

 

Tis funny cos of late I've noticed a trend (maybe it's a Midlands thing). Either we'll get a bright smile and wave off the Mrs but the man will stare resolutely ahead and ignore us, or vice versa.

 

One thing I would add in private boaters' defence is that hirers are on a holiday and determined to enjoy themselves. I love them for that, and they do give us a lot of free entertainment at times. We're on the boat full time and much as we try to be happy smiley people you may chance upon us just after we've had a blazing row, or lots of other scenarios where we're not particularly happy folks and can only give you a glimpse of a smile. Saying that I would never ever ever ignore a cheery hello the way some pompous gits and sour faced bitches do