lister overheating

[RLWP]

 

I was expecting to see something like the cap above. The central disk is the anti vacuum valve:

 

 

Richard

Edited July 13, 2023 by RLWP

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Peugeot 106 said:

t’s 8mm id think walled fire certified fuel hose. I can’t see it collapsing under vacuum it’s quite hard walled. 
 

 

I said hose(s), it could be any hose that has coolant in it.

[RLWP]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

I said hose(s), it could be any hose that has coolant in it.

 

And annoyingly it could be a hose that looks round, but the inside layer of tube collapses. Of course, such hoses are always in the most inconvenient place

 

Richard

[Peugeot 106]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I said hose(s), it could be any hose that has coolant in it.

 

1 hour ago, RLWP said:

 

And annoyingly it could be a hose that looks round, but the inside layer of tube collapses. Of course, such hoses are always in the most inconvenient place

 

Richard

There only are three hoses. I don’t have gearbox cooling or calorifier. All hoses are less than 500 hours on the engine. The hoses are 8mm fuel pipe to filler overflow and 32mm Id x 40mm for coolant.

All three coolant hoses were replaced and there had been no change to recovery bottle function since so I think we can rule out hose malfunction. I will however check tonight when everything is cooling but I would be happy to use all the hoses as pump suction hoses.

[Psychalist]

The semi-original question was SiFi's circulation problem described as a result of his question as to whether/how the original 2011 issue reported under the thread topic was resolved, presumably to get clues to resolve his own breakdown. SiFi ended down a rabbit hole with a broken injector pump and hasn't been seen since (hopefully making progress though). Peugeot106, who doesn't appear to have an overheating problem since he's happily cruising rivers, has taken us down a different snake, his own paranoia about having everything perfect. That said, I'm enjoying the exchange of information, but it is typical CWDF thread hijacking, so now we have 3-4 separate issues being discussed in the one thread.

[SiFi]

3 minutes ago, Psychalist said:

The semi-original question was SiFi's circulation problem described as a result of his question as to whether/how the original 2011 issue reported under the thread topic was resolved, presumably to get clues to resolve his own breakdown. SiFi ended down a rabbit hole with a broken injector pump and hasn't been seen since (hopefully making progress though). Peugeot106, who doesn't appear to have an overheating problem since he's happily cruising rivers, has taken us down a different snake, his own paranoia about having everything perfect. That said, I'm enjoying the exchange of information, but it is typical CWDF thread hijacking, so now we have 3-4 separate issues being discussed in the one thread.

I've not disappeared but awaiting a visit from Richard. Also he has found me a replacement spring for my injector fuel pump.  Normal overheating topic to be resumed Tuesday when Richard is onsite 

[Psychalist]

4 minutes ago, SiFi said:

I've not disappeared but awaiting a visit from Richard. Also he has found me a replacement spring for my injector fuel pump.  Normal overheating topic to be resumed Tuesday when Richard is onsite 

Great news. Thanks for the update.

[Peugeot 106]

1 hour ago, Psychalist said:

The semi-original question was SiFi's circulation problem described as a result of his question as to whether/how the original 2011 issue reported under the thread topic was resolved, presumably to get clues to resolve his own breakdown. SiFi ended down a rabbit hole with a broken injector pump and hasn't been seen since (hopefully making progress though). Peugeot106, who doesn't appear to have an overheating problem since he's happily cruising rivers, has taken us down a different snake, his own paranoia about having everything perfect. That said, I'm enjoying the exchange of information, but it is typical CWDF thread hijacking, so now we have 3-4 separate issues being discussed in the one thread.

Thank you for calling me paranoid I would call it a healthy interest in why things don’t always work as expected! I for one find SiFi’s predicament very interesting it has turned out a quite a tale and he hasn’t as yet had to ditch his engine in part I hope due to the encouragement from this forum. I am following it with interest and I’m sure are others  and certainly am sure he will be reporting back. 
To be honest I’m not sure what your gripe is about if you are enjoying the thread. Maybe the title could be changed to LPWS Alpha engines, I have found all sorts of useful info on the thread I’m sorry if you haven’t

And in case you haven’t noticed everybody on the thread has been open and informative. Info has been given when asked for. Nobody had been dictatorial, What’s not to love?

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

I doubt this is any good, but I wonder if the rivet that holes the guts onto the cap is allowing air in.

[Peugeot 106]

13 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I doubt this is any good, but I wonder if the rivet that holes the guts onto the cap is allowing air in.

Could be but I pressure tested it all with a bicycle pump though as you say i couldn’t vacuum test it. 
I think this winter I will fit a pucker expansion tank. I have a secondhand exhaust manifold so can ditch the mannicooler so there will be a positive head for the return and also a bleed for air. That’s what most other people seem to do. Very many thanks Tony
For interest here we are approaching Tower Bridge. The dot to the left of the sailing ship. Note they opened it for us!

[Psychalist]

14 hours ago, Peugeot 106 said:

To be honest I’m not sure what your gripe is about if you are enjoying the thread.

Not a gripe, just an interim summary to date. We're all paranoid healthily interested in our own boats and their foibles, so please do continue and don't take offence. My point, I suppose, was we have maybe three topics in one thread, which can be confusing, but that's the way of CWDF. 🤔

[Tony Brooks]

16 hours ago, Peugeot 106 said:

Could be but I pressure tested it all with a bicycle pump though as you say i couldn’t vacuum test it. 
I think this winter I will fit a pucker expansion tank. I have a secondhand exhaust manifold so can ditch the mannicooler so there will be a positive head for the return and also a bleed for air. That’s what most other people seem to do.

 

If you ditch the water cooled manifold, you really should wrap the plain manifold in some form of insulation to TRY to protect against serious burns if someone touches it when hot/running. It is not something I would willingly do.

 

The pressure test would only test the seal sat the bottom of the filler neck, not the top one, and there looks as if the top seal might be slightly crinkled in one place, it is hard to see on the photo.

 

On the face of it expelling coolant and not drawing it all back in speaks of overfilling, but if you empty the expansion tank into something other than the engine, and it expels the coolant each time you run it without topping it up again it suggests something else, like air/gas building up in the skin tank each time it is run.

 

 

 

 

[Peugeot 106]

7 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

If you ditch the water cooled manifold, you really should wrap the plain manifold in some form of insulation to TRY to protect against serious burns if someone touches it when hot/running. It is not something I would willingly do.

 

The pressure test would only test the seal sat the bottom of the filler neck, not the top one, and there looks as if the top seal might be slightly crinkled in one place, it is hard to see on the photo.

 

On the face of it expelling coolant and not drawing it all back in speaks of overfilling, but if you empty the expansion tank into something other than the engine, and it expels the coolant each time you run it without topping it up again it suggests something else, like air/gas building up in the skin tank each time it is run.

 

 

 

 

Hi Tony sorry for delay the signal is lousy here. I am out of contact will reply when signal better. 

[SiFi]

Richard has been on-site. He found a mixture of problems and confirmed that the head gasket was shot, obvious once the head was off.

 

Also one of the tappets had deconstructed itself and was causing a problem with the free running of the governer rail. I don't think I could have sorted this one on my own.

 

[Peugeot 106]

I’m glad you were able to enlist Richard’s help . Are you back up and running?

[RLWP]

I was reflecting on this on the way home. The end cap on the oil cooler will be what caused the initial overheating. They are ok, but not really designed to support a length of water hose bouncing up and down

 

The gasket failure happened exactly where the wrong head bolt had been fitted. Instead of the bolt with a small stud on top to support the dual alternator bracket, a plain bolt had been used - and tightened down hard distorting the bracket, which then bent and came loose

 

I suspect the tappet fell apart when the pushrod was removed - that's a new one on me! And the broken spring on the fuel pump has probably been there for ages

 

Also, the fresh water mussels in the Slough arm are magnificent!

 

Richard

1 minute ago, Peugeot 106 said:

I’m glad you were able to enlist Richard’s help . Are you back up and running?

 

I didn't have any tappets with me, unfortunately. We were out of stock

[SiFi]

Not yet, Richard has taken the head away, I think he is going to have it skimmed. There is some welding needed on the dual alternator bracket. 

[jonathanA]

2 hours ago, RLWP said:

I was reflecting on this on the way home. The end cap on the oil cooler will be what caused the initial overheating. They are ok, but not really designed to support a length of water hose bouncing up and down

 

 

 

interesting comment, just recently I had the rubber cap thing come off on mine, fortunately it was just as I was mooring up.  There isn't a lot of 'meat' for the jubilee clip on  the cooler itself, only just enough...  The same cap developed a small split a couple of years ago and was replaced, but the security of the cap/jubilee clips on the oil cooler is something I will pay more attention to when servicing the engine.   I'll also check to see if there is way of taking any of the weight of the hose/fittings off it. 

 

really useful update thanks both, and great to know that such a fantastic level of expertise is available. 

[RLWP]

12 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

interesting comment, just recently I had the rubber cap thing come off on mine, fortunately it was just as I was mooring up.  There isn't a lot of 'meat' for the jubilee clip on  the cooler itself, only just enough...  The same cap developed a small split a couple of years ago and was replaced, but the security of the cap/jubilee clips on the oil cooler is something I will pay more attention to when servicing the engine.   I'll also check to see if there is way of taking any of the weight of the hose/fittings off it. 

 

really useful update thanks both, and great to know that such a fantastic level of expertise is available. 

 

It is not unusual to find these engines installed with the skin tank on the port side, which is fine for the water outlet, calorifier and so on.

 

The water inlet is on the starboard side above the flywheel housing through the oil cooler, which means there has to be a pipe going from one side to the other above the gearbox. Popular choices are lengths of hose or copper pipe fabrications

 

These are fine, they can put strain on the oil cooler end cap which it isn't really designed for.

 

Mind you, it isn't hard to attach the feed pipe to the oil cooler with cable ties in the absence of a more engineering solution

 

Richard

[SiFi]

I know it's inelegant but I think I would prefer a big cable tie that is wrapped around both end caps, squashing them on to the cooler. 

[SiFi]

I'm expecting Richard back tomorrow to refit the skimmed head, fingers and toes are crossed🤞