JD3

[bottle]

This engine is on a friends boat and is a new engine, the manufacturers are on the case, some ideas would be appreciated.

 

The engine has now done about 230 hrs.

 

All pipework etc. has been checked for air/diesel leaks, the fuel pump (lift) changed.

 

The symptoms: (1)

 

Engine will start and tick-over.

 

After running in gear for about 35 minutes (700rpm) the engine will begin to 'die' and return to tick-over over a few minutes but not stall. The control lever does not move.

 

It will then not speed/rev up in or out of gear.

 

Since the fuel pump has been changed the symptoms: (2)

 

Dying after about 35 minutes and will not speed/rev up.

 

If taken out of gear also when gear is re-engaged it will speed/rev up.

 

Although it will 'rev' to full speed out of gear, when gear is engage it will only 'rev' to about 800rpm

 

Thank you for your thoughts and time.

[classicstove]

I used to have one of these engines in my boat

 

Very good but a lot a vibration against the Gardner I now have installed

 

I used to have a 22 x 22 prop and she would not rev above 900 rpm - my conclusion was that the engine was overpropped

Edited March 3, 2011 by classicstove

[WotEver]

Doesn't help much, but it sounds like fuel starvation to me. I had a mate with a taxi that did almost exactly the same thing. He'd already changed all the fuel filters and finally he found one more hiding - changed that and all was well.

 

So, obvious question - all fuel filters changed and clean?

 

Tony

[bottle]

Thank you

 

Sorry should have posted that.

 

The prop is as advised by one of the leading prop makers and the boat has worked 'properly' before.

 

Hi Tony

 

Yes. on the fuel filters etc.

 

Fuel starvation was our thoughts and probably the manufacturers, hence the change of pump

Edited March 3, 2011 by bottle

[ditchcrawler]

Thank you

 

Sorry should have posted that.

 

The prop is as advised by one of the leading prop makers and the boat has worked 'properly' before.

 

Hi Tony

 

Yes. on the fuel filters etc.

 

Fuel starvation was our thoughts and probably the manufacturers, hence the change of pump

When the work was done, was anything done to the fuel tank and take off points that could be restricting the flow at that end. May be worth connecting to a gallon can higher than the engine and try direct gravity feed.

[WotEver]

When the work was done, was anything done to the fuel tank and take off points that could be restricting the flow at that end. May be worth connecting to a gallon can higher than the engine and try direct gravity feed.

And when it gets into its "I don't want to rev any more" mode, try removing the fuel filler cap - do you get a large intake of air? Just wondering if the vent is clogged/damaged in some way.

 

Tony

[bottle]

When the work was done, was anything done to the fuel tank and take off points that could be restricting the flow at that end. May be worth connecting to a gallon can higher than the engine and try direct gravity feed.

 

Fuel tank not touched but fuel lines checked and fuel (gravity) from main tank is OK, has been run from clean fuel and jerry can.

 

Problem still there.

 

And when it gets into its "I don't want to rev any more" mode, try removing the fuel filler cap - do you get a large intake of air? Just wondering if the vent is clogged/damaged in some way.

 

Tony

 

Vent checked and is clear and clean, not tried removing filler cap (or not when I was there)

[WotEver]

It's not partially siezing is it? Exhaust still clear when it slows down?

 

Can't be fuel tank or vent if it does it from another supply.

 

Tony

[bottle]

It's not partially siezing is it? Exhaust still clear when it slows down?

 

Temperature stays normal.

 

Exhaust is clear, and it will run 'forever' at tick-over after it slows down.

 

It will not pick up if left in gear, if taken out of gear will pick up to full revs but not when put back into gear, only reaching about 800.

[MoominPapa]

It will not pick up if left in gear, if taken out of gear will pick up to full revs but not when put back into gear, only reaching about 800.

It not a gearbox fault is it? Partial engagement of the reverse clutch whilst in forward gear?

 

 

MP.

[WotEver]

It not a gearbox fault is it? Partial engagement of the reverse clutch whilst in forward gear?

 

 

MP.

That's a good thought. Is it a hydraulic box?

 

Tony

[NB Alnwick]

I am not entirely familiar with these engines but I think it is based on the John Deere 3029D industrial unit similar to the one installed by R W Davis in NB 'Flint' - a 70 foot Northwich Trader. I know that the engine in 'Flint' is quite capable of giving our boat a good run for the money (we have raced on an unrestricted section of the canal) so the poor performance, of the engine in question, must be in its conversion and adjustment.

 

The first thing I would check would be the governor followed by the injection pump and injectors. I would also check the high pressure fuel lines - we once had a partial blockage in one that, eventually, wrecked the injection pump.

[bottle]

Just had a thought, it will be tomorrow before it can be investigated.

 

The engine is off set from the centre of the boat, it drives the prop via two universal joints and the final shaft is supported by a bearing (plumbers block??)

 

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

 

Much as we do do want to leave him, we have an appointment to keep and also our water tanks need dealing with.

[Albion]

This engine is on a friends boat and is a new engine, the manufacturers are on the case, some ideas would be appreciated.

 

The engine has now done about 230 hrs.

 

All pipework etc. has been checked for air/diesel leaks, the fuel pump (lift) changed.

 

The symptoms: (1)

 

Engine will start and tick-over.

 

After running in gear for about 35 minutes (700rpm) the engine will begin to 'die' and return to tick-over over a few minutes but not stall. The control lever does not move.

 

It will then not speed/rev up in or out of gear.

 

Since the fuel pump has been changed the symptoms: (2)

 

Dying after about 35 minutes and will not speed/rev up.

 

If taken out of gear also when gear is re-engaged it will speed/rev up.

 

Although it will 'rev' to full speed out of gear, when gear is engage it will only 'rev' to about 800rpm

 

Thank you for your thoughts and time.

 

A friend had very similar symptoms with another engine that brought him to a halt with monotonous regularity. He could bleed the fuel system and go again for a similar amount of time. It turned out to be that he had fitted an aftermarket fuel filter (the filter was on the suction side of an electric lift pump)and the small O ring under the head of the filter casing holding bolt was letting in air slowly until it built up in the injection pump. As a temporary, he put in a second O ring and later, as a permanent fix he installed an O ring of meatier cross section.

IIRC genuine CAV filter replacements contain a correct size O ring. Might be worth a check for similar cause even if the engines weren't the same.

Roger

Edited March 3, 2011 by Albion

[GBBS]

I would suspect that the recent occurrence of very heavily water / sludge / diesel bug contaminated fuel has damaged the fuel injection pump. Not really Beta's fault is it? Has the friend told Beta about the fuel issue?

[bottle]

Albion (Roger)

 

Thank you, there are no filters before the lift pump and the seals have been checked.

 

GBBS

 

Thank you for your thoughts, where was there any mention of contaminated fuel, may I ask you to remove any reference to the (possible) manufacturer, I purposely did not name any company.

 

The company involved are being very helpful.

Edited March 4, 2011 by bottle

[Tony Brooks]

This one is completely "off the wall" but worth a few moments consideration. Any chance its related to the alternator output? Some slow revving engines have been fitted with a larger alternator plus a high pulley ratio to give good charge at low speeds. It has been known for the load on the alternator to prevent the engien revving up or to slow it down. Don,t waste too much time on this but consider it.

[bottle]

Tony

 

At the moment "off the wall" is good.

 

It has been thought of, as the engine does drive a 240v alternator plus two others, loads have been varied (turning on and off 240v loads etc.) but as yet no perceivable change has been noted.

[journeyperson]

GBBS

 

Thank you for your thoughts, where was there any mention of contaminated fuel, may I ask you to remove any reference to the (possible) manufacturer, I purposely did not name any company.

 

The company involved are being very helpful.

 

Isn't the topic title a clue to who the manufacturer is?

[XAlan W]

When the engine dies away ,have you tried selecting neutral & trying to turn the prop shaft by hand? some years ago a friends boat had a similar problem & it was the bronze stuffing collar had to small clearance & was heating up & partily seizing Or is it any form of tightness 0n any of the drive train

[bottle]

Alan

 

I will check and come back.

[Iain_S]

If the problem was excess load, would one not expect black exhaust smoke?

 

Iain

[bottle]

Alan

 

The drive train has been checked and all is OK.

[NB Esk]

Is it possible to install a temporary clear plastic section, in the fuel line?

 

I've sometimes used this as a last resort, to try to pin down hard to find air leaks.

 

Advise your friend on safety issues, if trying this...

[bottle]

Hi John.

 

That has been carried out this morning.