boat ceiling lights ...electrics faulty

[lemontoes]

A few weeks ago, I noticed that one of the ceiling lights wasn't working, presuming it was the bulb I removed the cover and just to be sure tried the bulb in another light ...where it worked. Realising it must be a fault with the actual light fitting I had a closer look and saw signs of burning. The light fitting is one of the large dome type, and takes 2d fluorescent bulbs. The burning is just a small patch around one of two black sticky out things (less than a centimetre, almost cylindrical ......cross section a circle with the side cut off...and joined to the circuit board by two metal wire/prongs).

 

I wasn't too worried by this as I thought it was an isolated incident and presumed that a new light fitting would be the answer. Yesterday however, a second light began to flicker, and eventually went out.......When I took the cover off there was smoke, a horrible electrical burning smell, and signs of burning in exactly the same place. I turned all the electrics off.

 

I did put the bulb, from the first light fitting in the second... I don't know if this would have anything to do with it. Also they are 4 pin and seem to go in any way....is this correct? The light fittings have probably been there since the boat was built.....1996, are of a type I have seen on chandlery websites, and I have never had any problems before. None of the wires are showing signs of burning, although the second light fitting has wires held in place by what looks like blue tack!

 

I need to find out what is causing the lights to burn out, before I consider replacing them.

 

Jan

 

edited to say...... I have pictures on my phone, but can't find the lead to get them on my laptop.

Edited February 23, 2011 by lemontoes

[Chris Pink]

Sounds like the black sticky out things are part of the light fitting, and you will have to replace the whole fitting.

 

If they still work with a new bulb then the overheating will be due to the bulb failure if not then a new fitting is the only answer. Do you have another, working, example of the same light you can get a working bulb from to check the fittings?

[stuart]

I'd replace them both, just to be on the safe side.

[Chris Pink]

I'd replace them both, just to be on the safe side.

 

£60 or so when it might just be the bulb causing overheating is a very large safe side. I'd check with another bulb first.

[Neil TNC]

A few weeks ago, I noticed that one of the ceiling lights wasn't working, presuming it was the bulb I removed the cover and just to be sure tried the bulb in another light ...where it worked. Realising it must be a fault with the actual light fitting I had a closer look and saw signs of burning. The light fitting is one of the large dome type, and takes 2d fluorescent bulbs. The burning is just a small patch around one of two black sticky out things (less than a centimetre, almost cylindrical ......cross section a circle with the side cut off...and joined to the circuit board by two metal wire/prongs).

 

I wasn't too worried by this as I thought it was an isolated incident and presumed that a new light fitting would be the answer. Yesterday however, a second light began to flicker, and eventually went out.......When I took the cover off there was smoke, a horrible electrical burning smell, and signs of burning in exactly the same place. I turned all the electrics off.

 

I did put the bulb, from the first light fitting in the second... I don't know if this would have anything to do with it. Also they are 4 pin and seem to go in any way....is this correct? The light fittings have probably been there since the boat was built.....1996, are of a type I have seen on chandlery websites, and I have never had any problems before. None of the wires are showing signs of burning, although the second light fitting has wires held in place by what looks like blue tack!

 

I need to find out what is causing the lights to burn out, before I consider replacing them.

 

Jan

 

edited to say...... I have pictures on my phone, but can't find the lead to get them on my laptop.

 

Are these 12vdc or 24vdc?

There have been reports of the inveter circuits in cheaper 2d lights not being up to the job, especially concerning voltage fluctuations.

The experts will be along shortly.

[Chris Pink]

Are these 12vdc or 24vdc?

There have been reports of the inveter circuits in cheaper 2d lights not being up to the job, especially concerning voltage fluctuations.

The experts will be along shortly.

 

Most 12V fluorescents have cheap and nasty inverters. It is the transistors that tend to overheat and die, I think when the tube gets a bit old it asks for much more current.

[RobinJ]

Most 12V fluorescents have cheap and nasty inverters. It is the transistors that tend to overheat and die, I think when the tube gets a bit old it asks for much more current.

Having repaired a few of these I'd agree, I suspect the working voltage margin on some of the components is a little close for comfort, especially when the voltage on boats is often above 14V. Another problem is they are often recessed into the ceiling and have no air flow either!

[lemontoes]

Hi......thanks for all the replies.

 

The lights are 12v...this is the label on the back....

 

 

 

The first fitting looked like this where it had burnt out......

 

 

 

The second one looked very similar....though I am sure the blue tack is not good!......

 

 

Sorry about the quality of the pictures...taken with my phone and an unsteady hand.

 

"Active 12v 16w 2D fluorescent - brass round

 

Price: £ 41.10 (+VAT £ 49.32 ) Part No: LEL412 Unit quantity: 1

 

Surface mounting with white opaque shade. Integral switch in brass rim. 12v only.

 

Fitted with 16w 2D tube."

 

So not cheap......the ones I have are discoloured and the brass rims have cracked.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am in no doubt that I will have to replace the fittings, but I just wanted to to be sure that there was nothing more sinister at play......I felt it was unusual for the two to go in such a short time.

 

edited ...because...

Edited February 23, 2011 by lemontoes

[RobinJ]

Sorry about the quality of the pictures...taken with my phone and an unsteady hand.

Yep, nice set of cooked oscilator transistors!

[Chris Pink]

 

 

I am in no doubt that I will have to replace the fittings, but I just wanted to to be sure that there was nothing more sinister at play......I felt it was unusual for the two to go in such a short time.

 

 

 

There's nothing on the safety side to prevent you replacing them, strikes me that £90 would buy you a repair and leave a fair amount of change.

 

 

(If you decide to buy new ones, can I have the old ones for the price of the postage?)

[lemontoes]

Yep, nice set of cooked oscilator transistors!

 

OOo-er! What causes that to happen....sorry to sound so clueless......but I really am.

 

 

There's nothing on the safety side to prevent you replacing them, strikes me that £90 would buy you a repair and leave a fair amount of change.

 

 

(If you decide to buy new ones, can I have the old ones for the price of the postage?)

 

The light covers aren't in a good state, the plastic dome is very discoloured , and the brass rims are cracked in several places. If I decided to replace.....which is likely.....then you would be welcome to them. I am going to have to make a decision quite quickly, as I have no lights in the front of the boat....I had already removed the side lights as they were the wrong sort and never worked properly. I have replacements but was waiting till I had the time to tackle the job.

 

If I want to replace the lights with something similar...where would I look....are chandlerys my only option. I don't particularly like the ones I have anyway, and they obviously weren't built to last, even at £41! I would like to stick with something of a similar size, and that won't involve cuuting into the ceiling. Price is an issue as well, this is yet another unexpected expenditure this month......and although I would rather pay more and be safe, cheap is appealing!

 

Jan

[RobinJ]

OOo-er! What causes that to happen....sorry to sound so clueless......but I really am.

The transistors drive each half of a step up transformer to generate the 200V which lights the flourescent. Although they can generally handle 15V without a problem, the B-E junction breakdown voltage is about 5V, so any spikes, temperature effects etc., they tend to go puff!

[steelaway]

EBay

 

Alex

 

 

[lemontoes]

The transistors drive each half of a step up transformer to generate the 200V which lights the flourescent. Although they can generally handle 15V without a problem, the B-E junction breakdown voltage is about 5V, so any spikes, temperature effects etc., they tend to go puff!

 

How can I minimise the likelyhood when installing a new light fitting?

[WotEver]

How can I minimise the likelyhood when installing a new light fitting?

Never have them switched on when the engine is running would help.

 

Tony

[lemontoes]

EBay

 

Alex

 

Thanks for the link....I think I would like to stick with round though. I am looking for something similar to what I had before, but not quite so clumsy looking. Sorry ....not a good description but I know what I mean. I think these are the same......second one down(crossed fingers for link) brass dome light

 

Never have them switched on when the engine is running would help.

 

Tony

 

Neither of them went when the engine was running.....does being plugged into shorepower effect them? Not that I would be sure how to deal with that if it does!

[Chris Pink]

EBay

 

Alex

 

Having seen a fair few labcraft lights I can't help thinking their look is designed by electronics engineers.

 

And don't start me on their 'touch' lights - don't switch off, although a little better aesthetically the build quality is crap.

[WotEver]

Neither of them went when the engine was running.....does being plugged into shorepower effect them? Not that I would be sure how to deal with that if it does!

Could do. Depending on the charger it could be the same as having the engine running.

 

What voltage do you have on your batteries when running on Shore Power?

 

Tony

 

You could always fit a 12V regulated supply for the lights. This has been mentioned on here before for similar reasons (LEDs blowing).

[lemontoes]

Could do. Depending on the charger it could be the same as having the engine running.

 

What voltage do you have on your batteries when running on Shore Power?

 

Tony

 

You could always fit a 12V regulated supply for the lights. This has been mentioned on here before for similar reasons (LEDs blowing).

 

 

Not sure what the voltage is when on shorepower....I don't have a monitor fitted. I did read the batteries once...but because of where they are it was quite a faff. I'll try and find the Led thread and find out what a regulated supply involves. I promised myself that whatever else I had to deal with I would not even attempt to understand boat electrics........

 

I've been looking online to see what's on offer for large ceiling lights......not much. I think I may end up putting the same up again. I would like to stick with the 2d simply because I like the type of light they provide.....though to be honest I haven't really experienced anything else.

[ditchcrawler]

How about http://www.asap-supplies.com/promotions/featured-products/azap-2d-energy-saving-fluroescent-light-718003

or http://www.asap-supplies.com/marine/cabin-lighting/lamp-2d12v10w-65brassed-surf-swch

[Keeping Up]

The "0664" telephone number on the label suggests they may be quite old.

 

One of the boats who moors near us had exactly the same problem with his 2D lights. He got them replaced under guarantee, and was told there had been a whole bad batch of them, which were all made by the same producer but sold under a variety of labels. Not sure exactly when, a few years ago I think.

 

His replacements have been fine

[lemontoes]

How about http://www.asap-supplies.com/promotions/featured-products/azap-2d-energy-saving-fluroescent-light-718003

or http://www.asap-supplies.com/marine/cabin-lighting/lamp-2d12v10w-65brassed-surf-swch

Thanks for the links. The second one looks similar to the ones I have got but smaller. They might look neater. Definitely woth considering.

 

The "0664" telephone number on the label suggests they may be quite old.

 

One of the boats who moors near us had exactly the same problem with his 2D lights. He got them replaced under guarantee, and was told there had been a whole bad batch of them, which were all made by the same producer but sold under a variety of labels. Not sure exactly when, a few years ago I think.

 

His replacements have been fine

 

 

Mine are probably the ones that came with the boat, so that makes them about 14 years old.

[smileypete]

OOo-er! What causes that to happen....sorry to sound so clueless......but I really am.

 

You could try looking closely at the same transistors (little black things with 3 legs) on the working light and see if there is a type number.

 

If so it should be pretty easy/cheap to try replacing them, I'm sure someone on here could help.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[lemontoes]

You could try looking closely at the same transistors (little black things with 3 legs) on the working light and see if there is a type number.

 

If so it should be pretty easy/cheap to try replacing them, I'm sure someone on here could help.

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

I love the idea of cheap. But, electrics going wrong make me nervous, and I'm not sure I would want to risk the same happening again. That said, replacements are nearly £50 each.........and that probably doesn't include postage.

 

If I didn't go down the 2d route, what would be the best thing to replace them with?

[Chris Pink]

I love the idea of cheap. But, electrics going wrong make me nervous, and I'm not sure I would want to risk the same happening again. That said, replacements are nearly £50 each.........and that probably doesn't include postage.

 

If I didn't go down the 2d route, what would be the best thing to replace them with?

 

It's a question of aesthetics, you can get old-fashioned round bulkhead light fittings but the bulbs are juicy and the led replacements not the best.

 

If you have room behind (unlikely) then halogen downlighters with LED replacements are an option.

 

Where are you? It shouldn't be difficult to find someone to fix them unless you are having a new shiny moment.