Delphi Fuel Filter/water separator.

[Guest]

Wondered if anybody had any experience of these (can't find anything in search.)?

 

 

I can buy locally the whole thing for the price of a vetus cartridge alone. Cartridges for this are 2 quid each (as opposed to 35 quid for Vetus WS 180.)

 

They appear to be all metal and have metal drain taps as per boat regs. (always makes me laugh that rule )

 

It is for use directly after the tank,and I would welcome any comments before I part with cash.

 

Thank you.

[WotEver]

I fitted the single-filter version of that earlier this year. It's certainly made a difference to how quickly the silly little filter on the Vetus fuel pump gets clogged. Oh, it catches a reasonable amount of water too, just like it's supposed to.

 

Tony

[steelaway]

Wondered if anybody had any experience of these (can't find anything in search.)?

 

 

I can buy locally the whole thing for the price of a vetus cartridge alone. Cartridges for this are 2 quid each (as opposed to 35 quid for Vetus WS 180.)

 

They appear to be all metal and have metal drain taps as per boat regs. (always makes me laugh that rule )

 

It is for use directly after the tank,and I would welcome any comments before I part with cash.

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

Hi

 

I have exactly the same set for 5 years. I thought I was being super careful buying a twin set, only to find my new Barrus engine comes fitted with a further two!!

I only ever change these two as nothing seems to get to the primary Barrus filter - which also takes the exact same cartridge.

Replacement cartridges are cheap from Partco.

I also use the second 'out' take off to feed my Eberspacher boiler

Down side - they are a bit of a pig to keep oil tight. I have never really stopped it leaking, even though the cartridge comes with a complete set of replacement 'O' rings.

Its only a whisper but its so hard to determine which seal is leaking - and they are both the same

The latest attempt is to fit two 'O' ring on the shaft into the bowl at the bottom.

 

Alex

[Doorman]

Wondered if anybody had any experience of these (can't find anything in search.)?

 

 

I can buy locally the whole thing for the price of a vetus cartridge alone. Cartridges for this are 2 quid each (as opposed to 35 quid for Vetus WS 180.)

 

They appear to be all metal and have metal drain taps as per boat regs. (always makes me laugh that rule )

 

It is for use directly after the tank,and I would welcome any comments before I part with cash.

 

Thank you.

 

Same as Beta Marine Vs Fram. The latter can be bought at a fraction of the cost of a Beta Marine 'original part'. An engineer recently commented, that Fram & Beta Marine filters are one and the same, so why the extra cost

[Chris-B]

Same as Beta Marine Vs Fram. The latter can be bought at a fraction of the cost of a Beta Marine 'original part'. An engineer recently commented, that Fram & Beta Marine filters are one and the same, so why the extra cost

 

Boxing and relabelling + markup

[Doorman]

Boxing and relabelling + markup

 

Yes and what a markup.I'd want gold braiding on the box for that sort of profit margin

[cariad]

Same as Beta Marine Vs Fram. The latter can be bought at a fraction of the cost of a Beta Marine 'original part'. An engineer recently commented, that Fram & Beta Marine filters are one and the same, so why the extra cost

 

 

greed

[steelaway]

Same as Beta Marine Vs Fram. The latter can be bought at a fraction of the cost of a Beta Marine 'original part'. An engineer recently commented, that Fram & Beta Marine filters are one and the same, so why the extra cost

 

 

Because they can!!

As with all the supermarkets they charge as much as they can get away with.

Always remember these companys are not there to save us money, they could sell ever thing at cost!!

No matter what their advertising says, they want to make as much profit as possible - from us

 

Alex

[ditchcrawler]

Same as Beta Marine Vs Fram. The latter can be bought at a fraction of the cost of a Beta Marine 'original part'. An engineer recently commented, that Fram & Beta Marine filters are one and the same, so why the extra cost

I have a Delphi filter/water trap and I use to buy an equivalent filter element from my local motor factor. When I looked closely they were not the same, the filter construction is different. see this photo

Edited October 29, 2010 by ditchcrawler

[sharpness]

Wondered if anybody had any experience of these (can't find anything in search.)?

 

I asked about a very similar Delphi unit in Jan this year in a post I called What is it No.1? I learnt a lot of useful information about it. Unfortunately I havent yet worked out how to do a link but if you can find that thread it might help. Ditchcrawlers picture appears in it!!

 

Steve

 

Or tell me how to do a linky!

Edited October 29, 2010 by sharpness

[Guest]

I asked about a very similar Delphi unit in Jan this year in a post I called What is it No.1? I learnt a lot of useful information about it. Unfortunately I havent yet worked out how to do a link but if you can find that thread it might help. Ditchcrawlers picture appears in it!!

 

Steve

 

Or tell me how to do a linky!

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=27901&st=0&p=479907&hl=delphi&fromsearch=1entry479907

Edited October 29, 2010 by Guest

[Doorman]

I have a Delphi filter/water trap and I use to buy an equivalent filter element from my local motor factor. When I looked closely they were not the same, the filter construction is different. see this photo

 

Yes, they are physically different, but still probably just as efficient. As long as each filter stops particles larger than 5 microns in size, reaching the injector pump, they're doing their job.

 

Mike

[steelaway]

I have a Delphi filter/water trap and I use to buy an equivalent filter element from my local motor factor. When I looked closely they were not the same, the filter construction is different. see this photo

 

 

I imagine that the Delphy one has a further corse filter behind the holes to stop big lumps getting in.

They will both allow the fuel down the outside and filter through to the middle.

It depends on the likelyhood of big lumps from the tank - and the difference in cost.

 

Alex

[ditchcrawler]

I imagine that the Delphy one has a further corse filter behind the holes to stop big lumps getting in.

They will both allow the fuel down the outside and filter through to the middle.

It depends on the likelyhood of big lumps from the tank - and the difference in cost.

 

Alex

I was hoping that Tony would come in here. I understand that the way the filter is constructed has an impact on how it removes water droplets combining them into bigger ones so as they drop to the bowl at the bottom. There is a drawing on his web site of an AGGLOMERATOR and in my opinion the holes in the top plate of the Delphi would help this to happen.

 

Edit because my spacebar don'talways work

Edited October 30, 2010 by ditchcrawler

[Phil Ambrose]

Yes and what a markup.I'd want gold braiding on the box for that sort of profit margin

 

Reminds me of Glow plugs, when I had a Mikuni local Yards used to charge £27-00 while I soon found a website where I could get the identical plugs at 2 for £20-00 inc free postage. I dont object to people making a profit, after all thay's why they are in business but there is profit and PROFIT.

 

Phil

[sharpness]

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=27901&st=0&p=479907&hl=delphi&fromsearch=1entry479907

 

 

Thats the one, hope it helped!!

 

Steve

[Doorman]

Reminds me of Glow plugs, when I had a Mikuni local Yards used to charge £27-00 while I soon found a website where I could get the identical plugs at 2 for £20-00 inc free postage. I dont object to people making a profit, after all thay's why they are in business but there is profit and PROFIT.

 

Phil

Hi Phil,

 

do you still have that web site address? We have a Mikuni and eventually I'll have to service it and refuse to be held to ransom by some of the 'official' retailers.

 

When we had an Earbasher, I found a service outlet in Trafford Park Manchester, who could supply spares at a realistic price.

 

Mike

 

Because they can!! As with all the supermarkets they charge as much as they can get away with.

Always remember these companys are not there to save us money, they could sell ever thing at cost!!

No matter what their advertising says, they want to make as much profit as possible - from us

 

Alex

 

Yes, very true, as long as customers are not willing to look elsewhere for the better deal!

 

Mike

[Tony Brooks]

I was hoping that Tony would come in here. I understand that the way the filter is constructed has an impact on how it removes water droplets combining them into bigger ones so as they drop to the bowl at the bottom. There is a drawing on his web site of an AGGLOMERATOR and in my opinion the holes in the top plate of the Delphi would help this to happen.

 

Edit because my spacebar don'talways work

 

 

If you have a "water trap" that contains a filter it is (as said) known as an agglomerator. It works by the droplets of water being larger than the pores in the filter "paper" and the pressure difference across the droplet at that stage is insufficient to force the droplet through the pore. What happens then is much like rain on a widow, gradually more droplets arrive and agglomerate together to form larger droplets. The larger droplet has a larger surface area so the internal pressure in the droplet rise until it is sufficient to force the now larger droplet through the pore when, being now larger and heavier it can fall into the bowl - or so I was told by CAV/Delphi. I would also avoid fixing them to the engine because most engine jump about a bit and that would tend to stir/shake up the dirt & water sitting in the bowl.

 

Personally I would prefix this with a sedimentor that has large gaps through it and uses a cone to remove 80% of the water and larger dirt pieces "Dyson style" because that would extend the life of the agglomerator element when water and lots of dirt is in the fuel but many boat builders do not do this - it costs another (say) £50! My ex-hire boat had a sedimentor and I fitted an agglomerator.

 

I think it is all but vital to use some form of "pre-cleaning" on boats so would urge everyone to fit at least one of the units (sedimentor or agglomerator) and if you have one of the idiot Vetus type electric fuel pumps with the filter in the end definitely fit the agglomerator at the least (you could then throw the idiot Vetus element away).

 

I think there must be patent or production cost issues re the actual elements. Most of the second line makers use a pleated filter but CAV/Delphi, Mann & Hummel plus one other use the "swiss roll" type pocket filter. Pocket filters have a larger surface area so ahould take longer to clog. Pleated filters allow the water droplets to exit horizontally throughout the full hight of the filter where as the pocket filters force the water to exit at the bottom and even make an attempt to spin the flow to throw the water to the outside. In both cases the fuel exits up through the centre of the element so personally and despite assurances from the likes of Fram that there is no problem with pleated filters I would always go to some trouble to buy a pocket filter for marine use.

 

As for the illustrations I think they need larger sediment bowls and would suggest that ASAP Supplies part 302006 for the agglomerator and after checking exactly what it is because they give insufficient details 302005 for the sedimentor. Remember to order metal drain screws and you will need to know the diameter of the fuel line so they can supply suitable fittings and olives. Personally I would go to my local Diesel Fuel Injection repair shop to price these items because I suspect they may be a bit cheaper.

 

One last thing. I this is just for the engine you do not need to worry about the 5 micron bit because you will still be using the engine's own filter.

 

Sea going boats or boats that spend time on bumpy water would ideally fit two pairs in parallel linked to the fuel lines by a pair of Y valves. In that way if one set blocked the other set could be quickly brought into use and the blocked pair sorted out. I try to fit any of this type of equipment so the pipes are just above the fuel level with a full tank but the drain plugs are below the fuel level. In that way a broken pipe does not result in a tank full of fuel in the bilge but with the tank full it is possible to drain the bowls of water without letting air into the system.

 

Bet you wish you have not uttered my name now

[Doorman]

 

 

If you have a "water trap" that contains a filter it is (as said) known as an agglomerator. It works by the droplets of water being larger than the pores in the filter "paper" and the pressure difference across the droplet at that stage is insufficient to force the droplet through the pore. What happens then is much like rain on a widow, gradually more droplets arrive and agglomerate together to form larger droplets. The larger droplet has a larger surface area so the internal pressure in the droplet rise until it is sufficient to force the now larger droplet through the pore when, being now larger and heavier it can fall into the bowl - or so I was told by CAV/Delphi. I would also avoid fixing them to the engine because most engine jump about a bit and that would tend to stir/shake up the dirt & water sitting in the bowl.

 

Personally I would prefix this with a sedimentor that has large gaps through it and uses a cone to remove 80% of the water and larger dirt pieces "Dyson style" because that would extend the life of the agglomerator element when water and lots of dirt is in the fuel but many boat builders do not do this - it costs another (say) £50! My ex-hire boat had a sedimentor and I fitted an agglomerator.

 

I think it is all but vital to use some form of "pre-cleaning" on boats so would urge everyone to fit at least one of the units (sedimentor or agglomerator) and if you have one of the idiot Vetus type electric fuel pumps with the filter in the end definitely fit the agglomerator at the least (you could then throw the idiot Vetus element away).

 

I think there must be patent or production cost issues re the actual elements. Most of the second line makers use a pleated filter but CAV/Delphi, Mann & Hummel plus one other use the "swiss roll" type pocket filter. Pocket filters have a larger surface area so ahould take longer to clog. Pleated filters allow the water droplets to exit horizontally throughout the full hight of the filter where as the pocket filters force the water to exit at the bottom and even make an attempt to spin the flow to throw the water to the outside. In both cases the fuel exits up through the centre of the element so personally and despite assurances from the likes of Fram that there is no problem with pleated filters I would always go to some trouble to buy a pocket filter for marine use.

 

As for the illustrations I think they need larger sediment bowls and would suggest that ASAP Supplies part 302006 for the agglomerator and after checking exactly what it is because they give insufficient details 302005 for the sedimentor. Remember to order metal drain screws and you will need to know the diameter of the fuel line so they can supply suitable fittings and olives. Personally I would go to my local Diesel Fuel Injection repair shop to price these items because I suspect they may be a bit cheaper.

 

One last thing. I this is just for the engine you do not need to worry about the 5 micron bit because you will still be using the engine's own filter.

 

Sea going boats or boats that spend time on bumpy water would ideally fit two pairs in parallel linked to the fuel lines by a pair of Y valves. In that way if one set blocked the other set could be quickly brought into use and the blocked pair sorted out. I try to fit any of this type of equipment so the pipes are just above the fuel level with a full tank but the drain plugs are below the fuel level. In that way a broken pipe does not result in a tank full of fuel in the bilge but with the tank full it is possible to drain the bowls of water without letting air into the system.

 

Bet you wish you have not uttered my name now

 

Any tips as to where to source the Mann & Hummel units from?

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

Bet you wish you have not uttered my name now

As I said, you could do it better than me, Thanks. You can buy Delphi elements on e bay quite cheap, there is also a couple of nice second hand filter houses there

[Tony Brooks]

Any tips as to where to source the Mann & Hummel units from?

 

 

I buy mine for a local motor factors called Camberly Autofactors - not much use if you are more then about 30 miles form Camberly though. However they only supply the elements NOT the whole assembly.

[Doorman]

I buy mine for a local motor factors called Camberly Autofactors - not much use if you are more then about 30 miles form Camberly though. However they only supply the elements NOT the whole assembly.

 

Cheers,

I'll scour the net to find the complete unit. Looks like a worth while investment.

 

Mike