Composting Lavatoirs

[blackrose]

I've heard some horror stories about vacuum toilet blowbacks.

 

Urban myth - how can a vacuum blow back it's a negative pressure?

[Big Steve]

I suppose it's like breaking a TV tube, it's a vacuum, but they go with a hell of a bang and there is glass everywhere.

 

Canal shop man, sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were at fault for the increase in price.

[Big Steve]

Hate to ask an awkward question, but if you are living on a narrowboat, what do you do with all that compost?

 

What sort of volume is produced per person per year?

 

I'm not living on this boat, the advantage I see of a composting toilet is it only needs emptying once or twice a year, the "product" is clean, dry and not nasty. It can be spread over the nearest field or put in the bin with ordinary household waste. It will not block up or explode (I hope!)

 

Don't know how much waste is produced, (depends on curry frequency) but all the fluid disappears and the solids are reduced in volume by 90% (allegedly)

[Dave Hannigan]

It can be spread over the nearest field or put in the bin with ordinary household waste.

 

can it be burnt in a stove to heat the boat :lol:

[Alastair]

I'm not living on this boat, the advantage I see of a composting toilet is it only needs emptying once or twice a year, the "product" is clean, dry and not nasty. It can be spread over the nearest field or put in the bin with ordinary household waste. It will not block up or explode (I hope!)

 

Don't know how much waste is produced, (depends on curry frequency) but all the fluid disappears and the solids are reduced in volume by 90% (allegedly)

 

 

Those are manufacturer's claims.

 

Having lived with a Biolet, I'd say that the claims may be true if the toilet is used by one person aboard full time, or 2 part-time.

 

With more people than that, it needs emptying more frequently (erm about monthly for us), the product is damp and a bit smelly (like stable sawdust), unless it gets too wet - in which case it is liquid + foul wet sludge.

 

The toilets were designed to let excess liquid drain off - this is difficult to do on a boat.

[Big Steve]

The toilets were designed to let excess liquid drain off - this is difficult to do on a boat.

 

I wondered about that, couldn't it be pumped to a container somewhere?

[lymmranger]

Canal shop man is wrong.....

 

They used (still are?) to be also available in both 110vAC and 12vDC versions.

 

The 12v DC drew a lot of current (from memory.....) so that is why I chose a 240vAC version

 

Regarding the compost......

 

I lived aboard for 6months, I tried not to add too much liquid but did use the loo daily (will not go further than that).

 

I found paper took about 10 days to dissapear, other items were unoticeable once stirred. I did not need to empty in all that time.

 

Boat (and loo) were then used for approx 2 days a week for another year or so. I still did not need to empty.

 

I finally emptied after about 2 years (still not full) - At this point nothing was identifiable or smelly

 

I have friends who have one, they live aboard and empty approx every 6months (still not full)

 

I am also aware of someone in Alastairs postion..... have to empty regularly with erratic results

 

I do not know the answer to this one, I can only comment from personal experience, which is that this is the loo for me (us)

[blackrose]

The important thing is to stir it.........

 

after each use or after a day or so.

 

How do you do that exactly?

[Big Steve]

The 12V biolets have a manual stirrer, a handle on the top, mains models have electric stirrers. The Envirolet has handles on the front which you pull in and out occasionally. Neither appears to involve getting personal with the contents.

[Rick-n-Jo]

The 12V biolets have a manual stirrer, a handle on the top, mains models have electric stirrers. The Envirolet has handles on the front which you pull in and out occasionally. Neither appears to involve getting personal with the contents.

 

 

And the Sun-Mar has a drum which you rotate with a handle two or three times a week. I've not yet heard a convincing explanation as to why that's a bad thing. Read their website, and then for instance the Envirolet one. See which you think is most convincing technically, and which is mostly sales puff. Envirolet cite an article about the relative merits of turning compost or not in huge windrows of waste in municipal composting facilities, inferring I suppose that these findings are directly applicable to a small amount of poo in a bucket.

I also don't understand the earlier comment about mixing fresh material with partly composted. Surely all systems will do that? The separate finishing compartment in the Sun-Mar is to allow some compost to finish breaking down for 4-6 weeks without exposure to fresh material or liquid. That can't happen in a single chamber system.

The only drawback I can see with the Sun-Mar is that it is not very toilet shaped, and tall. I'm sure that can be got used to or worked around, perhaps with a raised floor if you're not comfortable with the step.

 

I've been back to the various websites, and it still looks good to me.

 

Rick

Edited March 24, 2007 by Rick-n-Jo

[Big Steve]

But the Sun Mar looks enormous, and I don't like that step. On the other hand, if it works and the others don't I suppose that's the one to go for.

[Canal Shop Man]

But the Sun Mar looks enormous, and I don't like that step. On the other hand, if it works and the others don't I suppose that's the one to go for.

Let's get this right. It's because the Sun-Mar mixes fresh compost with old that they have had to add the extra bin, which wastes space and time. Also the separate bin doesn't get aerated, so it could start anaerobic breakdown, which causes smells . . .

 

The Envirolet doesn't tumble the compost so you don't need this extra bin.

 

The Envirolet covers a bigger floor area so it has a bigger surface area of liquid so it evaporates the liquid off quicker, but because it doesn't have a vertical drum inside it, it can be at normal height.

 

But then I'm biased, 'cos I sell the Envirolet!

[Big Steve]

Canalshopman, you're convincing me, is it a stock item 'cos I'd like to see one in the flesh before spending so much dosh.

[Alastair]

The toilets were designed to let excess liquid drain off - this is difficult to do on a boat.

I wondered about that, couldn't it be pumped to a container somewhere?

 

the outlet point is very low - about 5 mm off the ground.

 

I think the toilets work well for low use. For intensive use, I don't think they are viable.

[Canal Shop Man]

Canalshopman, you're convincing me, is it a stock item 'cos I'd like to see one in the flesh before spending so much dosh.

Steve

We have a demonstration(!) one in the shop which you are welcome to try for size!! We generally provide a 'fresh' one for customers. We can also show you pics of installed toilets and talk through the pros and cons.

[Big Steve]

Hi Canalshopman, I'll pop down and see you sometime then, probably in the next couple of weeks, I'll check with you before travelling.

Edited March 27, 2007 by Big Steve

[BORNJOYFUL]

i am also looking at this - i know its while since thread started but i found out that the MULLTOA manual seems to have no smell problems even out of chimney and no electricity use and is cheaper than the envirolet. built in sweden. any one got one-

[Alastair]

The Mulltoa is the biolet - it's just a different name for the same product.

 

There isn't a smell problem as long as the toilet contents are dryish (they need to be damp to compost). As soon as they get too wet, the smell is terrible.

[Boris_A]

My first post. Well then, hello!

 

I'm currently planing for a new toilet room on my boat (leisure). My aim is to avoid any "black" in my greywater tank.

 

That's what I found on a Dutch homepage:

http://www.scheepstimmermangroningen.nl/pa...e15/page15.html

 

http://www.separett.com (Swedish) diverts the urine from the sh... and requires therfore no heating/stirring, only electrical ventilation. (12 V version available). The various models cost around £400-500.

[BORNJOYFUL]

i also looked at this recently- they are expensive .

 

however i did see a swedish company making one that got a great review from a scandanavian country.i did not write its name and now am cursing but apparently an amercian reviwer said eh had treid them all and this one wa sgreat- also no electricity needed to run it no smells. they suggest a small computer fan in mushroom vent. yes it is bigger tha usual boat toilets.

 

i had no luck getting a call back this week from the only uk supplier but i did see that if i imported one it would come to $1000 before out UK tax of customs of about 40%.

 

the only uk supplier was Wendage pollution control and i canot get into their webpage to get name of lo!!

 

ther eis also ayahoo group for compost loo people!

 

blessings tania

[g0n]

I found this stuff http://www.biomagicuk.com/2.html at the boat show at Beale, the lady i spoke to claimed that it could be used instead of the nasty blue stuff in thetford and portapottis and the result is biodegradeable. I have been looking at composting toilets but this stuff seems like a very cheap alternative you just add it to your toilet.

 

I remember years ago seeing a comment from a boater in one of the waterways magazines to the effect that brewers yeast could be used instead of blue, and the resulting sludge emptied into a conventional sewage system instead of the sluice. Has anyone tried this? There wouldn't be a lot of point using environmentally friendly toilet chemicals if you're going to empty the results straight down the sluice if anyone else is using blue formaldehyde based stuff.

[BORNJOYFUL]

i managed to speak to the biolet/ mulltoa people today - wendage pollutipon in hampshire.

 

the model for a boat does not need a drainage tank and it runs off 240 so would need inveretr. as far as i remember the 12v mmmodel does need a tank or has cosiderable run off!

 

when i read a review of someone who had lived with both, the mulltoa/biolet came up trumps.

 

if i imported one from the usa it would be £1000 after customs

buying from wendage is the same price.

 

it would be helpful if thiose with the biolet and those with the envirolet made sure to differentiate in each post as i am getting confused. they do lok really similar but apparently not.

 

and also- the eprson who said that it was worth holidaying in sweden just to get one cheaper- i presume this is the biolet and how on earth would one carry it thru customs???

thanks tania

[BORNJOYFUL]

thanks for that link to the dutch barge guy- he seems to be using one that has a tank???

 

i think they also do one without a tank and then i saw they also do one especially for boats which is smaller-

this one is advertised in the usa -one of the distributers and the only reason i looked at a usa website was that i could be sure they had simple and adequate instructions and also the price is a good indicator- wahever it is in $$ just call it the same in ££

 

http://www.ecovita.net/airhead.html

[Boris_A]

thanks for that link to the dutch barge guy- he seems to be using one that has a tank???

Yes, for the liquid part.

But by avoiding all solid stuff in your grey tanks (and moderate use of oecological soaps for personal use an laundry), there shouldn't be any problems with pumping out. Not oecologically and not technically.

[lymmranger]

i managed to speak to the biolet/ mulltoa people today - wendage pollutipon in hampshire.

 

the model for a boat does not need a drainage tank and it runs off 240 so would need inveretr. as far as i remember the 12v mmmodel does need a tank or has cosiderable run off!

 

when i read a review of someone who had lived with both, the mulltoa/biolet came up trumps.

 

if i imported one from the usa it would be £1000 after customs

buying from wendage is the same price.

 

it would be helpful if thiose with the biolet and those with the envirolet made sure to differentiate in each post as i am getting confused. they do lok really similar but apparently not.

 

and also- the eprson who said that it was worth holidaying in sweden just to get one cheaper- i presume this is the biolet and how on earth would one carry it thru customs???

thanks tania

 

I have the Biolet.

 

It was also me that mentioned taking a holiday in Sweden.

 

I thought boaters were practical, lateral thinking creatures! yet you ask how to get it home???????????????????????

 

Please remember it was a few years ago that I explored all the options and pricing...... things may well have changed