Composting Lavatoirs

[Bones]

Having heard Carrie mention composting it has got me thinking again. My bathroom is going to be the next victim of my creativity and I am wondering about the pheasability of said loo. My bathroom is about 5ft at the mo. can anyone tell me about them and fan requirements?

[Guest]

Having heard Carrie mention composting it has got me thinking again. My bathroom is going to be the next victim of my creativity and I am wondering about the pheasability of said loo. My bathroom is about 5ft at the mo. can anyone tell me about them and fan requirements?

Don't know much about them except that the ones I have seen are expensive and very large. If they work as well as claimed though, then the idea is excellent.

[Richard Bustens]

What goes up has to come down just the same as what goes in has to come out.

 

Id'e rather pump it out than dig it out.

[bottle]

Here you go composting loo. I believe whilton marine Whilton on line are agents

[Carrie]

Bones - hi. I think 'Sun-mar' makes a smaller compost loo for boats etc. The back shapes well into the sides of a hull. It works on a rotating drum system and the reduced organic matter (like soil at the end) is 'ready' after a couple of months. (depending on model and size). Check out the website for user accounts of their possibilities and limits.

We waste so much clean drinking water, carrying away our poo. Water that then needs purifying to be able to use again. Keeping 'it' suspended in water allows all sorts of pathogens to flourish in a way that aerobic decomposition does not.

This smaller model has less composting surface for air to reach, so it should have a fan with it (comes with some models) to aid aerobic composting. The fan is only a small one which can easily be solar run.

I'd also like to run a heating line (finrad?) along the bathroom to aid composting in winter when things can slow down a little.

 

The very best book I have found on the subject is the Humanure Book, but I'll have to get you the references later (I'm at work, on a break!). I can also post other links later. I'm currently researching what organic matter to use in the compost loo. Sawdust is really good (one trowel-full after each visit) but can you store much of this on a boat? Probably not a lot. Leaves, grass-cuttings etc all good, but again - how to store it and get 'refuelled'? Still lots to learn....

 

Here you go composting loo. I believe whilton marine Whilton on line are agents

 

Yes, I looked at these. Thought they were a bit too big myself, but a 'local' supplier none-the-less.

[Bones]

is 'ready' after a couple of months. (depending on model and size). Check out the website for user accounts of their possibilities and limits.

The very best book I have found on the subject is the Humanure Book,

 

Is a couple of months too long!? I think I have found the book you mention on the internet, I shall have a read.

[Canal Shop Man]

There are two types of composting toilet readily available, the Envirolet and the Sun-Mar, both from Canada. The basic principle is the same in both. The solid material is separated from the liquid which is evaporated off by means of a fan sucking the air through the toilet and out of a vent pipe.

I have little experience of the Sun-Mar unit, but it does have two faults - the unit is so high that it needs a step to get onto - and the rotating drum inside mixes what you did today with well composted material so that when you go to empty it you get a rather unpleasant mixture (they provide a secondary tray for this to decompose in, but this negates the point of the rotating drum!)

We sell and support the Envirolet unit in the UK and have a number of satisfied customers on narrowboats, mostly live-aboards. The unit has a sieve arrangement halfway down which is raked each time you use the toilet. To aid the composting and make it look nicer inside you sprinkle potting compost on to this. The unit is quite large as the liquid evaporation rate is dependent on surface area. Because 90% of what you do in a toilet is liquid only 10% remains to be disposed of. This is not an unpleasant job as the material is well composted and can easily be got rid of. One customer, who lives aboard alone, told me he hadn't yet had to empty the unit after 18 months use, but typically we suggest 6 - 12 months. Surely this is a lot less hassle than pump-outs or cassette toilets!

The fan should be operated 24 hours a day when the boat is occupied, but consumption is less than 2 amps at 12 volts. We recommend using a chimney collar and chimney on the roof to complete the flue pipe (this confuses passers-by who wonder why you have a solid fuel stove in your bathroom!!)

If you require any further information, please contact me direct.

[Carrie]

Well you're just the useful person I need to chat to! Will pm you soon if that's ok?

 

 

 

The potting compost you speak of is peat-based isn't it?

I'd need to find something else...

[DHutch]

The potting compost you speak of is peat-based..

Peat-based it bad...

 

...But normal poting compost might work ok?

[Carrie]

Well my book suggests sawdust (not from pressure-treated wood though) as a good covering material in loos. (It's the covering that stops them smelling and provides the organic 'starter for composting).

I'm wondering if you could use ash from the fire (cold) as a covering material sometimes. It's made from carbon after all, but I don't know if it is too 'inert' as it were (perhaps combined with sawdust).

[alan_fincher]

The fan should be operated 24 hours a day when the boat is occupied, but consumption is less than 2 amps at 12 volts.

 

I must admit I knew nothing of these things until this thread....

 

But am I reading this right that you need up to 2 amps continuously whilst the boat is in use, (i.e up to 24 amp hours in a day).

 

Not a worry to those people who have lots of generating capability, or regular connection to a shoreline.

 

But (correct me if I'm wrong), it seems to be the same people who are interested in things like composting loos who are also asking questions about wind generators and/or solar panels, (presumably because they don't want to run engines or generators when not on the move).

 

Have I missed something, or aren't you actually going to need quite a bit of extra 12 volt generating capability, just to run the fan on the loo ?

[bottle]

Alan

 

One that I saw fitted had a 'spinning cowl' on the roof outlet this was effective in sucking air through the the toilet, of course a breeze was required to make it effective. As already mentioned a souce of warmth is also beneficial in aiding through flow of air and assisting evaporation.

[Bones]

I must admit I knew nothing of these things until this thread....

 

But am I reading this right that you need up to 2 amps continuously whilst the boat is in use, (i.e up to 24 amp hours in a day).

 

Not a worry to those people who have lots of generating capability, or regular connection to a shoreline.

 

But (correct me if I'm wrong), it seems to be the same people who are interested in things like composting loos who are also asking questions about wind generators and/or solar panels, (presumably because they don't want to run engines or generators when not on the move).

 

Have I missed something, or aren't you actually going to need quite a bit of extra 12 volt generating capability, just to run the fan on the loo ?

 

Quite... I'm only interested if it doesn't require shoreline power as I'm not always attached... but I THINK its possible to use them with wind generators or solar or both.

[Moley]

So you carry around a bucket of sh*t for 12 months and have a second chimney wafting the aroma of urine wherever you go, or am I missing something?

 

If you 'bucket and chuckit', don't Severn Trent or whoever do all this for you?

 

Well I ain't coming anywhere near your boat, whatever malt whiskies you've got onboard!

 

Also, what's the problem with peat? Surely it's about as organic as you can get, and has been dug for millennia.

 

I'm all for recycling, and do my bit, but what's this all about? Please enlighten us.

[Carrie]

Hurrah! All the malts for me, me, me!

Moley - peat mining is causing lansdcape erosion and threatening wildlife. I guess it's not getting a chance to recover from mass mining in a way that it perhaps could, hundreds of years ago.

 

As far as the smelly chimney is concerned. Well I'll have to see in practice, but the theory goes that there should be no smell from properly managed composting. Smells occur when aerobic bacteria are 'drowned' by too little oxygen and too much water. Leastways that's what I've read. The one compost loo I've 'experienced' was not in a boat, it's true, but smelt of - well, nothing! No flies, no smell.

 

I'm not pretending to know everything about compost toilets - I'm trying to learn as much as I can though and welcome advice and information.

[gaggle]

it would probably be more enviromently helpful to just empty at the pump out, elsan or the services toilet.if it goes in a tank it gets recycled and used if it ends up in a sewage farm the end product is sold and used.

i read on one site that a certain canal has the regular habits of one city to thank for its abundance of water.

night soil is a much sought after commodity nowadays and has been used by farmers forever.

my understanding is that the compost toilets main use is in holiday homes on land and the main purpose is not anything to do with recycling. more to do with it not being feasable to have holiday parks full of log cabins in the middle of nowhere and having to pay for the septic tank waste to be disposed of.

 

i put a lot of this recycling craze in with global warming,the gullible think they are saving the earth when really they are only making themselves feel better.if this save the earth from humans is really to be taken seriously lets all cut are throats as we lie in a field,we can then decompose into the soil and enrich it and any future harm we may have caused to mother earth will no longer happen.a positive carbon footprint.

[Carrie]

Well Bones, in answer to your question - that's as much as I know. Good luck in making your own decisions for your bathroom.

 

For myself - I know my own wishes 'to live as lightly as possible' (a phrase I once read), tie in with a fierce dislike of being told where to get my power, when to get up in the morning, what to eat, how to dispose of my waste, how to live every aspect of our lives in fact. There's a huge satisfaction to be had in living outside these parameters.

 

Gaggle - I respect your views and don't mean to impose my own way of thinking, on you. We are clearly very different people!

[Bones]

.

 

I'm all for recycling, and do my bit, but what's this all about? Please enlighten us.

 

 

Its not an eco-earth thing on my part. I'm interested in different ways of doing things, and am quite intrigued by the composting toi la la. I don't think I would get one until I saw another narrowboat with one onboard. Everything is better than what I currently have!

 

 

i put a lot of this recycling craze in with global warming,the gullible think they are saving the earth when really they are only making themselves feel better.if this save the earth from humans is really to be taken seriously lets all cut are throats as we lie in a field,we can then decompose into the soil and enrich it and any future harm we may have caused to mother earth will no longer happen.a positive carbon footprint.

 

Composting isn't about recylcing. I think its good to recyle and think about what impact we, as individuals, have on the earth.

 

Well Bones, in answer to your question - that's as much as I know. Good luck in making your own decisions for your bathroom.

 

For myself - I know my own wishes 'to live as lightly as possible' (a phrase I once read), tie in with a fierce dislike of being told where to get my power, when to get up in the morning, what to eat, how to dispose of my waste, how to live every aspect of our lives in fact. There's a huge satisfaction to be had in living outside these parameters.

 

Gaggle - I respect your views and don't mean to impose my own way of thinking, on you. We are clearly very different people!

 

I like to explore the options available before making choices based on convention - I like to know what works for me too. Having been an independent boat dweller not relying on engine charge of batteries etc, I like the freedom it brings me. I had a pump out before and now find the elsan provides alot more freedom. I like freedom.

Edited January 5, 2006 by Bones

[gaggle]

carrie,i do not mean to imply that you are trying to impose your veiws or beliefs on me or others,sorry if it comes across that way.

you are right we are very different in our outlook on things and it is differences that make the world go around and make life such a pleasure, i read your posts and imagine a wonderfully strange quircky lady.

long may your garden flower

 

moley

if composting is not about recycling,what is?

[lymmranger]

I must admit I knew nothing of these things until this thread....

 

But am I reading this right that you need up to 2 amps continuously whilst the boat is in use, (i.e up to 24 amp hours in a day).

 

Not a worry to those people who have lots of generating capability, or regular connection to a shoreline.

 

But (correct me if I'm wrong), it seems to be the same people who are interested in things like composting loos who are also asking questions about wind generators and/or solar panels, (presumably because they don't want to run engines or generators when not on the move).

 

Have I missed something, or aren't you actually going to need quite a bit of extra 12 volt generating capability, just to run the fan on the loo ?

 

In theory you are correct, in practice (I have one) you run the "stirrer" and "fan" once a week or so.

However using it this way can lead to the odd smell if you are really close to the chimney. I have emptied mine about once a year (2 people using)

[Bones]

 

 

moley

if composting is not about recycling,what is?

ah yes, that was me. Bones sits back takes a sip of Talisker and contemplates.... Basically its about sh%&£ing but with as few trips to the elsan/pump out as possible... and it looks like composting might hit the mark!

 

In theory you are correct, in practice (I have one) you run the "stirrer" and "fan" once a week or so.

However using it this way can lead to the odd smell if you are really close to the chimney. I have emptied mine about once a year (2 people using)

 

ooh oooh - do you have pictures...?! How big is your bathroom - can I get away with one in my 'i can't swing a cat but I can get my feet in 5ft bathroom' or would I need something bigger. Is it for the faint hearted, and erm... details details.

[Pirate]

it would probably be more enviromently helpful to just empty at the pump out, elsan or the services toilet.if it goes in a tank it gets recycled and used if it ends up in a sewage farm the end product is sold and used.

i read on one site that a certain canal has the regular habits of one city to thank for its abundance of water.

night soil is a much sought after commodity nowadays and has been used by farmers forever.

my understanding is that the compost toilets main use is in holiday homes on land and the main purpose is not anything to do with recycling. more to do with it not being feasable to have holiday parks full of log cabins in the middle of nowhere and having to pay for the septic tank waste to be disposed of.

 

i put a lot of this recycling craze in with global warming,the gullible think they are saving the earth when really they are only making themselves feel better.if this save the earth from humans is really to be taken seriously lets all cut are throats as we lie in a field,we can then decompose into the soil and enrich it and any future harm we may have caused to mother earth will no longer happen.a positive carbon footprint.

 

WoW,

 

What a brilliant idea for the save the world crowd to do, but take your jewellry off 1st, and put it where it can easily be found by collectors who could make a good honest living on the cut

[gaggle]

sorry moley and bones said gaggle as he kicked his own ass

Edited January 5, 2006 by gaggle

[Bones]

WoW,

 

What a brilliant idea for the save the world crowd to do, but take your jewellry off 1st, and put it where it can easily be found by collectors who could make a good honest living on the cut

 

 

I'd missed that.... I wonder what sort of impliment is best for slitting one's throat.....

[Crazy Scheme]

Ok, we are a pair of hippies, but for me the appeal of the composting loo was mostly not having to empty the blimmin' thing constantly, or faff with chemicals.