Ellesmere Port Boat Museum

[Mike C]

....they resigned to being broken up and then smoky historic pictures displayed on the nice touch screens in a "Lets see what you could have won" style. .....Its all very well expanding the archive for the public, but these boats should be made a priority.......

 

you are not correct and the boats are being made a priority - see links in earlier part of this thread, better still let me know when you are next coming up and I will gladly try to make the time to show you whats realy going on and introduce you to some of the folks that are actually doing things and not promoting inacuracies and falsehoods.

 

Mike C

 

Once I picked myself up, off the floor, and the uncontrollable laughter subsided, I wonder if the MLAC actually visited the site and, if so, how the museum staff managed to hide the collection they are "preserving".

 

I suspect they may have visited the site more recently than you as they are certainly better informed about the current situation and the works that are ongoing or being implemented.

[stagedamager]

In which case i have totally got the wrong end of the stick. As I live at the other end of the country please can you provide a link with up to date information as to the current progress with the boats there, so as i can follow the regular updates as to recording / restoration?

[carlt]

I suspect they may have visited the site more recently than you as they are certainly better informed about the current situation and the works that are ongoing or being implemented.

Really?

 

What about the unique vessels that they have already allowed to deteriorate to a state no longer viable to be repaired.

 

So many times I hear the claims that something is being done but nobody ever says exactly what, how much money has been allocated or what vessels are going to be destroyed, because they are past saving.

 

The state of our inland waterways national collection is shameful and, whilst you may be putting a bit of work into yet another josher, the ones that you should be saving are going to be broken up or already have been.

 

I am happy to be "informed about the current situation" but if all you can come up with is patronising dismissals of my, and many others, criticisms then your argument is unlikely to be persuasive.

[Mike C]

In which case i have totally got the wrong end of the stick. As I live at the other end of the country please can you provide a link with up to date information as to the current progress with the boats there, so as i can follow the regular updates as to recording / restoration?

 

http://www.boatmuseumsociety.org.uk/tlc-project.html

 

More is occuring than is shown, if you contact BMS directly I am sure that they will give you a better up to date account of which boats are having what done to them.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Mike C

[Mike C]

Really?

 

What about the unique vessels that they have already allowed to deteriorate to a state no longer viable to be repaired.

 

So many times I hear the claims that something is being done but nobody ever says exactly what, how much money has been allocated or what vessels are going to be destroyed, because they are past saving.

 

 

The state of our inland waterways national collection is shameful and, whilst you may be putting a bit of work into yet another josher, the ones that you should be saving are going to be broken up or already have been.

 

I am happy to be "informed about the current situation" but if all you can come up with is patronising dismissals of my, and many others, criticisms then your argument is unlikely to be persuasive.

 

 

Are they? which ones do you know of that are scheduled to be 'destroyed'?

 

I am not sure how 'viable to repair' can actually be quantified or defined and to attempt to is in danger of opening up the debate about the definitions of 'preserve, restore and rebuild' but I think you are right in that historically the maintaiance that the museum has been able to deliver has not kept in front of the deterioration of a number of craft - as the owner amd part owner of serveral historic craft of my own, some still in comercial use its a costly battle Im uncomfortably familier with!

 

I am not intending to patronise you, so if you feel patronised then please accept this public apology. I may be guilty of being jaded by the continual misinformation that talks down and mocks the museum and the efforts that are being made, very much of which is delivered by volunteers. If you would like to visit and be shown whats going on then tell me when you can come up and I'll either show you what I know myself, or put you intouch with someone who can show you more and who may be able to give you the figures that you are attaching importance to. The real work is happening on the bank and in the water, and not on this forum.

 

The museum and BMS will welcome all offers of assiatnce and enquires about what they are doing - try them, better still visit them or join them, if nothing else watch their web site http://www.boatmuseumsociety.org.uk/tlc-project.html

 

Mike

Edited November 5, 2010 by Mike C

[greywolf]

There was an earlier thread from somebody that had visited the museum publishing photo's from the site.The thing that came across most strongly was the boats with weeds growing out of them or much unloved and rotting away hulks.This award seems to be for the written archives and not the rest of it,i have never been but what i see makes me sad. contrasting it with the tram museum pictures posted earlier just shows how far it has to go.

[greywolf]

Are they? which ones do you know of that are scheduled to be 'destroyed'?

 

I am not sure how 'viable to repair' can actually be quantified or defined and to attempt to is in danger of opening up the debate about the definitions of 'preserve, restore and rebuild' but I think you are right in that historically the maintaiance that the museum has been able to deliver has not kept in front of the deterioration of a number of craft - as the owner amd part owner of serveral historic craft of my own, some still in comercial use its a costly battle Im uncomfortably familier with!

 

I am not intending to patronise you, so if you feel patronised then please accept this public apology. I may be guilty of being jaded by the continual misinformation that talks down and mocks the museum and the efforts that are being made, very much of which is delivered by volunteers. If you would like to visit and be shown whats going on then tell me when you can come up and I'll either show you what I know myself, or put you intouch with someone who can show you more and who may be able to give you the figures that you are attaching importance to. The real work is happening on the bank and in the water, and not on this forum.

 

The museum and BMS will welcome all offers of assiatnce and enquires about what they are doing - try them, better still visit them or join them, if nothing else watch their web site http://www.boatmuseumsociety.org.uk/tlc-project.html

 

Mike

 

Is it a secret which historic craft you are associated with? Could you not post here in a forum which is full of people who like the waterways exactly what you are doing,which craft you are at the moment rebuilding.Looking at the pictures from somebody who enjoyed the visit showed lots of sunken and half sunken boats,wilest i will applaud you for the boats you have saved i would suggest the ones you have done nothing to, should be on offer to anyone who is prepared to to spend money on them to return them back to working order,better that than slow diintergration.In a marina not a 100 miles from me there are a couple of sunken Narrowboats is this then a museum?

 

Working in a historic garden as i do as a volunteer i see a certain unreality creeping in when talking to the employed staff and trustees of the charity,by there very nature they are somewhat removed from reality.What our garden needs is strong backing [financially] and guidance as to it's future role, i would suggest that this is so for the Museum as well, Re National trust/English Heritage type support.There are 5 full time staff working very hard at our Gardens and numerous volunteers doing the best they can, but not being able to do enough to keep the gardens tip top, so you do what you can.I feel that this is the same for the museum.I feel proud of what we are able archive but sad that so much goes undone.

Edited November 6, 2010 by greywolf

[Pluto]

Working in a historic garden as i do as a volunteer i see a certain unreality creeping in when talking to the employed staff and trustees of the charity,by there very nature they are somewhat removed from reality.What our garden needs is strong backing [financially] and guidance as to it's future role, i would suggest that this is so for the Museum as well, Re National trust/English Heritage type support.There are 5 full time staff working very hard at our Gardens and numerous volunteers doing the best they can, but not being able to do enough to keep the gardens tip top, so you do what you can.I feel that this is the same for the museum.I feel proud of what we are able archive but sad that so much goes undone.

Perhaps the problem is that we live in a society where many seem to think money supply is unlimited. Why do footballers and bankers get paid so much when there is obviously too little money for social services, and things which add value to society like museums? Politicians aggravate the problem with their excessive expenses - they just don't take any notice of the most important feature of economics, money supply is limited. With regard to The Boat Museum, I probably have more to complain about than most as the boat I gave to them was burnt by vandals. However, that sad fact did ensure that the local authority did finally give some money for site security.

 

Looking at what the museum could do, given that money supply is limited, I would certainly have preferred that they had concentrated on wooden wide boats, as those are the boats which are really too large for individuals to finance. But then who would go to a museum of wide boats? Not many, given the way that canal history has been biased towards narrowboats - nice and ethnic as they are, historically narrow canals were never as influential on the economy as those with wide boats. In terms of tons carried per mile of waterway, the Weaver is probably the most important, though if you looked at the country's economy as a whole, those serving the textile areas of Lancashire and West Yorkshire were the most influential. In economic terms, textiles were way more important than any of the metal industries.

 

Getting back to The Boat Museum, letters to your MPs complaining about the museum's lack of funding would be much more influential than posting here.

[carlt]

 

Getting back to The Boat Museum, letters to your MPs complaining about the museum's lack of funding would be much more influential than posting here.

Why do you assume that people don't do both?

 

Despite my criticisms (or maybe because of them) I am a supporter of the museum and contribute, financially.

 

Geographically, it's a bit tricky to offer practical support and, as the owner of a classic/historic boat or two I think I may be doing my bit.

 

I have written to my MP, in the past, when I lived in striking distance of Stoke Bruerne, with little effect (though I think Stoke Bruerne is poorly planned and run, rather than underfunded).

 

When I wrote to my MP here in Warwickshire I received a reply extolling the wonders of the Transport Museum, in Coventry. A waste of ink for both parties.

 

Do my efforts now qualify me to discuss the subject, on an internet forum, or are there any other hoops I should jump through?

[Timleech]

 

 

Do my efforts now qualify me to discuss the subject, on an internet forum, or are there any other hoops I should jump through?

 

As a relatively detached observer (I signed up for NWMIN at the inaugural meeting but my involvement soon lapsed), The Boat Museum has certainly been through a phase where too little attention has been given to the boats and the collection of decaying hulks has added to a depressing air of neglect. I'm sure that is partly because there was too much optimism in the early days about how much could practically be done, at a time when there was a wide selection of wooden craft being offered at the end of their working lives.

That said, there is definitely a new spirit abroad and serious efforts are being made to put right some of that decay, and this must be encouraged. Knocking the museum for what has happened will not really help the positive moves for the future.

 

Tim

[Mike C]

Is it a secret which historic craft you are associated with?

 

No ……… its no secret but they are not at the museum other than when I’m passing through or visiting and so aren’t really relevant to the threat about whether or not the museum should be mocked and berated or supported.

 

If you are meaning which craft have had what done to them then scroll down the page on the link posted previously and again below:

 

link

 

 

Could you not post here in a forum which is full of people who like the waterways exactly what you are doing, which craft you are at the moment rebuilding.

[\quote]

 

I’m neither a member of the BMS or The Waterways Trust, nor am I employed by the museum, I’m just a reasonably regular visitor to the museum and have observed what is happening first hand so that’s why I would need to put you, or others, in touch with folk that have more details…if that is what is really wanted or needed in order to show you the truth about what is actually going on.

 

 

Looking at the pictures from somebody who enjoyed the visit showed lots of sunken and half sunken boats……

[\quote]

 

As I pointed out in an earlier part of this threat, ‘the photos don’t show the whole picture’ The pics of the boats with trees and plants are in an area of the museum that is the boatyard and repair area, and not on the main visitor route. These craft are awaiting attention and are not in the main visitor area of the museum. If you visit the site yourself you will see that the boatyard area is clearly marked and identifiable and there are usually various folk around who are able to explain further, they wear badges - so just ask them.

Some of the timber craft ashore were acquired by the museum as sunken craft (sunk for a long time) and which took several days with many volunteers to refloat them and prevent them from being broken up by BWB, without the museum to house the carcasses they would have been lost forever.

 

 

I will applaud you for the boats you have saved I would suggest the ones you have done nothing to, should be on offer to anyone who is prepared to spend money on them to return them back to working order,

[\quote]

If anyone makes the museum a serious offer of funding a craft back into tip top shape and can back up the proposal I will willingly and energetically stand shoulder to shoulder with them in the unlikely event that the museum declines their approach. As I understand it, the museum would welcome private or groups that have realistic proposals for any of the craft that are fading fast, particularly the timber vessels. It is my experience that those offers are just not out there due to the sums involved, please prove me wrong ……. Somebody!

[Josher]

I wonder if it arrived by boat?

 

Timber arrives for next stage of restoration project

 

Published date: 11 January 2011 | Chester First

 

THE National Waterways Museum boatyard is preparing to begin the next stage of its much anticipated restoration project. A delivery of 12 tons of quality wood has arrived at the Ellesmere Port based museum and will now be used to restore some of the historic canal boats in the museum. The oak, Douglas fir and opepe – a replacement for elm which would have originally been used – has been bought with the help of donations to the Heritage Boatyard. The boatyard, which provides experience and training for local young people, is now putting the final touches to plans to restore the museum’s fleet of historic canal boats. Work will begin firstly on two major projects, the restorations of George, a wide barge, and Box Boat 337 – one of the last remaining examples of a specialist coal carrying boat.

 

Museum general manager John Inch said: “Finding suitable wood has been a challenge for work in the boatyard to progress but this large haul will enable us to start work on further restorations in the spring. These are large boats and the lengths of wood, particularly the oak, required are longer than is usually available commercially. “Friends and supporters of the museum have been extremely generous in helping with the project – both financially and in the donation of materials and skills. It amazes me that we have already had seven oak trees donated to the museum but we’re always in need of financial support and materials for future projects.”

 

The Heritage Boatyard is a project working with a range of partners and funders that aims to preserve traditional boat building skills relating to inland waterways craft and pass on these skills to a new generation. The Heritage Boatyard is working to restore and maintain the museum’s collection of historic craft and in time develop into a commercial restoration boatyard.

 

The National Waterways Museum, at Ellesmere Port, is home to the national collection of historic working boats, some of which visitors can board to explore and find out how the working boat people used to live. The museum also has a trip boat, hands-on exhibits, films, touch-screen displays, stables, a blacksmith, docks, pump houses, workers cottages and gardens, an archive, a soft play area, museum shop and cafe.

 

For more information call 0151 355 5017 or visit www.nwm.org.uk

[giveitsomeoil]

Can I just say that it is all too easy for us to criticise others! How many of us here Actually get involved with the upkeep of these craft???

 

I know the workload and cost Involved in the upkeep of a fleet of historic boats and is not only a full time job, but Damn expensive as well!! If we all feel this strongly about the state and deteriation that has occured then should we not practically or finacially ALL contribute!

 

I agree that when I see the way that some of the last surviving wooden boats are rotting away, or the poor condition and upkeep of 'shiny joshers' (which comparitivly is an easier restoration and upkeep) I find it upsetting. I Think the age old problem that affected many carring fleets in latter years of TOO MANY BOATS is to blame here!

 

The fact that Museums and charities are preffered for the re distribution of BW boats only adds to this problem and is counter productive (no pun intended)as this divides already limited and over stretched resources.

[carlt]

Can I just say that it is all too easy for us to criticise others! How many of us here Actually get involved with the upkeep of these craft???

 

Well personally I have a 1932 ex-RNLI lifeboat, a 1960s runabout, a 1956 clinker racing dinghy, a 1960s wood and canvas canoe and various bits and pieces of wooden narrow boats kicking about.

 

I have spent more time than is healthy, in dry dock, fiddling with wooden narrow boats and have now turned my attention to sea-going boats (though I'm still willing to swing an adze, at an inland boat.

 

I think you should search around for a later thread that praises E.Port's new initiatives as this one is a bit out of date.

[Josher]

Here: http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=35723

[XAlan W]

Am I the only one who is disgusted by the shocking and shameful state of the boats.

 

Never mind all the good intentions of restoration. They should not have got in this state in the first place.

 

I agree with you 100%. If some of the boats had been put out for tender/sold years ago they would probably have been kept up together [ they could have been displayed, ie HNBOC rallys or the like] & been a much more worthwile state to get people to spend money to view [The photo`s of all but the odd boat remind me of Winsford flashes& that was supposed to be a graveyard for old boats

[Derek R.]

 

 

So cruel . . .

[pete harrison]

 

 

So cruel . . .

 

Why cruel ? The boats in these two photographed had been recovered from the flash at Whatcroft and are still extant now, either rebuilt or under restoration.

 

I suspect these photographs were taken in 1983 or 1984.

[Derek R.]

It was a bit tongue in cheek, and I meant that the Ellesmere boats weren't quite in the condition these were in.

 

In a perverse sort of way seeing boats in delapidated condition does give visitors a chance to see just how much work is needed, and how much can be done. Sadly not all will get done.

 

A few years out Pete, I'm sure I took those in 1988. Almost certain we didn't go that way North in '83, and I was using a lot of B&W back then too.

In '83 we went Thames at Brentford, Oxford, Brum, Harecastle, the Macclesfield, up to Whaley Bridge and down to Dukinfield, then the Ashton and the Rochdale nine when it was bad. Onto the L&L and at Wigan for the National and met 'Skippy' Ashworth (?) and 'Penny', West to Burscough and a little beyond, then over the Pennines, made pals with Joe Bridge and his good lady in Skipton, Barry locked us down Bingley, down through Leeds, and the Trent from Keadby to Cromwell in one go - struggled the last bit. Nottingham, Leicester, Norton J. Oxford, Thames and in at Brentford but got held up on the tideway as Joe had had all the power cut from road menders going through a cable and the folk in the flats were complaining about the noise of them fixing it! I was fishing some tasty bits of hawser out the rubbish lighter when Joe yells out "It's back on temp'ry, we'll sit you on the bottom in the chamber if need be - it's clean". Didn't need to, but joe's freezer had lost its cold - and he wasn't happy about that. Smashing bloke though, and Rose watched us lock through. Good memories.

[pete harrison]

It was a bit tongue in cheek, and I meant that the Ellesmere boats weren't quite in the condition these were in.

 

In a perverse sort of way seeing boats in delapidated condition does give visitors a chance to see just how much work is needed, and how much can be done. Sadly not all will get done.

 

 

Ironically the boat photographed on the bank is at the Ellesmere port museum, although in storage and out of the public's view. I photographed it there on 12 April 2009.