Gas Leak

[Paul & Julia]

Somethink to think about

 

I recently returned to the boat to find it smelling VERY strongly of gas. The only item in the boat which is gas powered is the cooker. Having turned off the gas at the cylinders I vented the hull and checked for the source of the leak. The two 13KG gas bottles are housed in vented lockers in the semi trad stern area and on inspection the regulator between the cylinders had failed and was sounding like a boiling kettle. The regulator failure had allowed gas into the cooker at gas bottle pressure which was more than the gas cooker taps could handle, hence the leaks into the boat via the gas cooker.

 

The implications are self explanitary and had this happened in winter when we have our wood burner/multifuel stove going or been asleep the results would have been very different.

 

I offer this report purely as food for thought as failures happen but...............

[Grace and Favour]

Oh boy!

 

Well spotted, well actioned, and I think you've just used up one of your 'lives'

 

and thank you for sharing this with us . . . . .

[Billypownall]

Somethink to think about

 

I recently returned to the boat to find it smelling VERY strongly of gas. The only item in the boat which is gas powered is the cooker. Having turned off the gas at the cylinders I vented the hull and checked for the source of the leak. The two 13KG gas bottles are housed in vented lockers in the semi trad stern area and on inspection the regulator between the cylinders had failed and was sounding like a boiling kettle. The regulator failure had allowed gas into the cooker at gas bottle pressure which was more than the gas cooker taps could handle, hence the leaks into the boat via the gas cooker.

 

The implications are self explanitary and had this happened in winter when we have our wood burner/multifuel stove going or been asleep the results would have been very different.

 

I offer this report purely as food for thought as failures happen but...............

I am surprised anyone leaves a boat with the gas supply not turned off either by a dedicated gas tap within the boat or at the bottles. Best do this whenever the gas is not being used particularly at night. Having helped rescue a familly from a cruiser which exploded on the Thames some years ago I witnessed the dangers first hand. Keep it turned off when at all possible.

[Derek R.]

Thank heavens you didn't step aboard with a lighted cigarette.

 

Years ago we viewed a boat at a marina with friends intending to buy, and on entering I smelt gas. Two of the cooker knobs had been on for goodness knows how long - since the last viewers I would guess - and the reason was clear; the cooker was facing work surfaces across the centre aisle and someone had backed into the knobs whilst turning around, effectively pushing the knobs in and partially turning them on. Lethal.

 

Derek

Edited August 4, 2010 by Derek R.

[polyhistor]

<i> I vented the hull and checked for the source of the leak</i>

Hi,

Interested to know how you vented the cabin bilge

[Guest]

<i> I vented the hull and checked for the source of the leak</i>

Hi,

Interested to know how you vented the cabin bilge

 

Very easy - just drill a hole through the bottom...

 

I'm guessing just eventually dissipated naturally, lot's of ventilation will move it eventually ... what's your thoughts?

[polyhistor]

I'm guessing just eventually dissipated naturally, lot's of ventilation will move it eventually ... what's your thoughts?

 

Calor gas sinks and will possibly seep below the flooring. I`m not sure how you could disperse it quickly if the bilge is contaminated. Worth testing for reassurance?

[system 4-50]

Isn't there such a thing as an over-pressure device that will cut off the supply if excess pressure comes down the line? Or am I imagining it?

[Derek R.]

I'm guessing just eventually dissipated naturally, lot's of ventilation will move it eventually ... what's your thoughts?

 

Seriously, imagine liquid petroleum gas as being like water. It will find its way through any non-air tight crack and crevice into the lowest part of the bilge and stay there. Natural draught as ventilation will not remove it in time, it will remain. The only safe way to remove it (short of turning the boat upside down out of the water) is by evacuating from the lowest point by sparkless vacuum pump. Not hard to do, but vital.

 

Derek

[alan_fincher]

Daft though you may look, to some extent, you can actually bail it out as if it were water.

 

With a bucket for example, although a dustpan apparently makes a good way of scooping it off a bottom if you have a clear area.

 

Nobody has ever told me how you know when it's all out though!

 

And of course, in the same way, you can't get out water that is below the floorboards.......

 

Seriously though, it's not that much denser than air that with a good breeze through most of it will not get dissipated quite quickly.

 

However, whilst I appreciate OP's dilemma, I really, really do think they should stop trying to do anything with this, as it really sounds like they don't have the basic capability beyond sniffing or lighting a match to know whether they have a leak or not.

[blackrose]

I am surprised anyone leaves a boat with the gas supply not turned off either by a dedicated gas tap within the boat or at the bottles. Best do this whenever the gas is not being used particularly at night. Having helped rescue a familly from a cruiser which exploded on the Thames some years ago I witnessed the dangers first hand. Keep it turned off when at all possible.

 

If I was leaving my boat unattended for any length of time then yes I agree, but as a liveaboard it really isn't very practical (neither is a gas explosion I grant you!) How many liveaboards actually turn off their gas, either at the the bottle or at a tap in the locker at night or everytime they finish boiling the kettle? Not many.

 

 

 

Somethink to think about

 

I recently returned to the boat to find it smelling VERY strongly of gas. The only item in the boat which is gas powered is the cooker. Having turned off the gas at the cylinders I vented the hull and checked for the source of the leak. The two 13KG gas bottles are housed in vented lockers in the semi trad stern area and on inspection the regulator between the cylinders had failed and was sounding like a boiling kettle. The regulator failure had allowed gas into the cooker at gas bottle pressure which was more than the gas cooker taps could handle, hence the leaks into the boat via the gas cooker.

 

The implications are self explanitary and had this happened in winter when we have our wood burner/multifuel stove going or been asleep the results would have been very different.

 

I offer this report purely as food for thought as failures happen but...............

 

Can I ask how old this particular regulator was? I think the general lifespan is about 10 years after (before?) which they should be replaced.

 

 

Thank heavens you didn't step aboard with a lighted cigarette.

 

Years ago we viewed a boat at a marina with friends intending to buy, and on entering I smelt gas. Two of the cooker knobs had been on for goodness knows how long - since the last viewers I would guess - and the reason was clear; the cooker was facing work surfaces across the centre aisle and someone had backed into the knobs whilst turning around, effectively pushing the knobs in and partially turning them on. Lethal.

 

Derek

 

No FFDs on that cooker then?

Edited August 5, 2010 by blackrose

[Naughty Cal]

As a matter of course we always turn the gas off after use with the "tap" below the galley sink. It isnt worth risking your life for the second it takes to turn off the gas.

[ChrisPy]

As a matter of course we always turn the gas off after use with the "tap" below the galley sink. It isnt worth risking your life for the second it takes to turn off the gas.

we hope you also turn it off with the "tap" on the bottle whenever you leave the boat unattended for a while.

 

 

................ you see, we really do care ..

[WJM]

"but as a liveaboard it really isn't very practical - [to] turn off their gas"

 

Definitely - which is why a gas alarm is a really good idea for a live-aboard.

[Naughty Cal]

we hope you also turn it off with the "tap" on the bottle whenever you leave the boat unattended for a while.

 

 

................ you see, we really do care ..

 

Of course.

 

"but as a liveaboard it really isn't very practical - [to] turn off their gas"

 

Definitely - which is why a gas alarm is a really good idea for a live-aboard.

 

Why is it any less practical for a liveaboard boater to turn of their gas than for a leisure boater to turn off theirs? It takes exactly the same amount of time in either situation.

 

In the OP's case having a gas alarm would have made little difference other than to annoy the neighbouring boat owners.

[blackrose]

As a matter of course we always turn the gas off after use with the "tap" below the galley sink. It isnt worth risking your life for the second it takes to turn off the gas.

 

I did that for a while after installing my gas system, but then I was told that I would wear out the isolator if I did this everytime I used the hob. I'm not sure how much truth there is in this - anyone know?

 

If we isolate gas appliances after use is it because we have no faith in the soundness of their components? I can see that isolating a hob reduces the possible leakage points but it does not eliminate them - leak could still occur upstream of the hob. The only really safe way is to isolate in the locker.

Edited August 5, 2010 by blackrose

[Naughty Cal]

I did that for a while after installing my gas system, but then I was told that I would wear out the isolator if I did this everytime I used the hob. I'm not sure how much truth there is in this - anyone know?

 

If we isolate gas appliances after use is it because we have no faith in the soundness of their components? I can see that isolating a hob reduces the possible leakage points but it does not eliminate them - leak could still occur upstream of the hob. The only really safe way is to isolate in the locker.

 

Very true, which is why we isolate in the locker whenever we leave the boat for an extended period even though, as the hob is right next door to the gas locker only being seperated by a GRP bulkhead, the only place the gas would/could leak is into the locker which is vented overboard. The gas bottles are higher than the waterline with the location of the locker.

[XAlan W]

If I was leaving my boat unattended for any length of time then yes I agree, but as a liveaboard it really isn't very practical (neither is a gas explosion I grant you!) How many liveaboards actually turn off their gas, either at the the bottle or at a tap in the locker at night or everytime they finish boiling the kettle? Not many.

 

 

 

 

 

Can I ask how old this particular regulator was? I think the general lifespan is about 10 years after (before?) which they should be replaced.

 

 

 

 

No FFDs on that cooker then?

 

The GPL bottle regulaters on sale over here in France have a quite strongly worded part in the instructions to replace every 5 years or sooner along with any flexible tubing other than the armoured stainless steel type

[carlt]

If I was leaving my boat unattended for any length of time then yes I agree, but as a liveaboard it really isn't very practical (neither is a gas explosion I grant you!) How many liveaboards actually turn off their gas, either at the the bottle or at a tap in the locker at night or everytime they finish boiling the kettle? Not many.

As a liveaboard, for as long as I had gas, after acquiring a new boat, I turned the indoors isolator tap off, after using an appliance and the gas off, at the bottle, before going to bed, or leaving the boat.

 

Gas never stayed long, on my boat, however. I think there are other options that are not prone to accidents, created through human error.

 

I find it ironic that there are many folk who regard a petrol engine as pure folly yet are happy to have LPG filling a network of pipes, fitted by a stranger, throughout the length of their boats.

[ChrisPy]

not usually a network of pipes, more usually a single pipe with very few joints.

 

and petrol engines combine the use of a highly volatile hydrocarbon with a sparking environment in a location hidden away from regular observation.

 

I think I prefer the use of properly regulated lpg for domestic use, and diesel for propulsion, thankyou !

[Naughty Cal]

not usually a network of pipes, more usually a single pipe with very few joints.

 

and petrol engines combine the use of a highly volatile hydrocarbon with a sparking environment in a location hidden away from regular observation.

 

I think I prefer the use of properly regulated lpg for domestic use, and diesel for propulsion, thankyou !

 

So gas isnt highly volatile or in a sparking environment?

 

How do you cook with your gas cooker if the gas is neither volatile nor with a spark?

[RLWP]

So gas isnt highly volatile or in a sparking environment?

 

How do you cook with your gas cooker if the gas is neither volatile nor with a spark?

 

Technical point. Being already a gas, is gas volatile? I can't imagine it turning into a liquid very easily for instance

 

Richard

[ChrisPy]

So gas isnt highly volatile or in a sparking environment?

 

How do you cook with your gas cooker if the gas is neither volatile nor with a spark?

if you wish to question the sense of my statement please read it in full.

as is often the case you choose to cherry pick, which does you no favours.

[Paul & Julia]

<i> I vented the hull and checked for the source of the leak</i>

Hi,

Interested to know how you vented the cabin bilge

Maybe I could suggest that you just get our more and take the item for what it is worth. Oh that we were all so smart - no maybe not

 

Isn't there such a thing as an over-pressure device that will cut off the supply if excess pressure comes down the line? Or am I imagining it?

 

You are not imagining it as there is such a thing and we have no had one fitted

 

If I was leaving my boat unattended for any length of time then yes I agree, but as a liveaboard it really isn't very practical (neither is a gas explosion I grant you!) How many liveaboards actually turn off their gas, either at the the bottle or at a tap in the locker at night or everytime they finish boiling the kettle? Not many.

 

 

 

 

 

Can I ask how old this particular regulator was? I think the general lifespan is about 10 years after (before?) which they should be replaced.

 

 

 

 

No FFDs on that cooker then?

 

7 years

[polyhistor]

"Maybe I could suggest that you just get our more and take the item for what it is worth. Oh that we were all so smart - no maybe not"

Oh, that`s how you vent your bilge.