Rivers and Ropes

[Woollymishka]

Hi everyone

We are seriously considering undertaking the Thames Ring and maybe (later this year) go on the Severn and then later down to Limehouse. We have been on the Avon but feel the Thames and Severn are a different kettle of fish as far as rope legths are concerned.

Our query is that we think that Thames Locks require much longer bow & stern ropes than we have at the moment (not sure about centre ropes - do these need to be longer as well? ) and am wondering what length is advisable/mandatory?

We have a 60ft narrow boat.

We would buy relatively cheap ropes for these journeys but any advice on length/diameter/eyes would be appreciated.

 

Apologies to the mods if I have posted this in the wrong section

Cheers

[alan_fincher]

From our fairly limited experience, (one trip on each with a 50 foot narrow boat), you don't need anything special in terms of rope lengths.

 

Both rivers tend to require that you have someone on the boat at each end, each holding a rope from the boat, (you don't in general get off the boat).

 

Severn locks had those "slidy runners" down the side, that you just hook a rope behind, so only a short rope is required. Thames locks require you to throw a loop of rope over a bollard, and hang on to the other end - again you'll need less than on the canals, as none of the locks are deep.

 

On the Thames the lock-keepers will usually tell you to turn off your engine in the locks.

 

I can't speak for Limehouse though, but think it may well have arrangements like the Severn.

 

Don't forget that with a 60 foot boat you cannot do the tidal Thames to or from Limehouse without someone on board holding the short range VHF certificate, and having a radio and licence, (unless travelling with another boat so equipped). If going alone, and you don't have the certificate, you'll need to do a 1 day course, (and buy or borrow a radio).

 

You'll also need an anchor, and suitable chain and rope, and personally my preference is to wear buoyancy aids, (strangely common on the Severn, but seem to be shunned on the Thames).

[RLWP]

Don't buy cheap ropes! Buy proper ropes and put them away in a locker if you are not going to use them after this trip. We have a heirachy of ropes with "good" ones when we are boating, "tired" ones for leaving the boat moored and "knackered" ones that get cut up and made into things. When you current ropes get tired you can bring your new ones into use.

 

Ropes are a consumable

 

Richard

[WJM]

You wont need any special ropes for the Thames. The rise and fall in locks is nothing special, I think Maidenhead (Boulters) is the deepest at about 10 feet so nothing special if you are used to the canal. When going up, the locks can fill very violently so a bow rope is essential. When single-handing I use a bow and centre line and stay on the bank to control the boat. The switching off of engines only happens when you are sharing a lock, generally they don't care what you do if you are the only boat in the lock.

[Canalwatcher]

The EA Thames user's guide, page 24, states you should have at least two ropes (fore and aft) each of minimum length 7m

 

We find with a crew of two a centre rope is useful too, mainly when entering full locks and going down

 

 

http://www.visitthames.co.uk/uploads/A%20U...hames%20web.pdf

 

Mick

Edited May 4, 2010 by zodiak

[alan_fincher]

....I think Maidenhead (Boulters) is the deepest at about 10 feet so nothing special if you are used to the canal.

Can't recall anything as deep as 10 feet on out trip. Nicholson's gives Boulter's at 7 ft 10 ins.

 

 

The EA Thames user's guide, page 24, states you should have at least two ropes (fore and aft) each of minimum length 7m

 

7 metres is only 23 feet. Given they usually want you to stand there with the rope tied to a T-stud, up around a bollard, and back into your hands, that means you or the T-stud could not be much over 11 feet from the bollard in an empty lock.

 

Might be OK if bollards are just where you need them, but frankly 7 metres sounds too short to me. Typical ready spliced ropes for canals seem to come in at 10 metres, and personally I think you really need that much extra margin.

 

On the non-tidal Thames, you need to be able to throw a looped rope over a lock-side bollard from the boat, without the option of disembarking. Having the rope too short would seriously decrease your chances of getting it right first time, in my view.

[RLWP]

<snip>

On the non-tidal Thames, you need to be able to throw a looped rope over a lock-side bollard from the boat, without the option of disembarking. Having the rope too short would seriously decrease your chances of getting it right first time, in my view.

 

A skill to learn and practice there, and not as easy as it looks

 

Richard

[alan_fincher]

A skill to learn and practice there, and not as easy as it looks

Bones tutored us on this topic, when we were still heading down the Oxford, and had not yet made arses of ourselves.

 

It is worth practising this somewhere other than at the first Thames lock you encounter, I can only agree!

 

(Herself is still far better at it than I am, I have to admit).

[RLWP]

Bones tutored us on this topic, when we were still heading down the Oxford, and had not yet made arses of ourselves.

 

It is worth practising this somewhere other than at the first Thames lock you encounter, I can only agree!

 

(Herself is still far better at it than I am, I have to admit).

 

I can get this right until I have to throw the loop upwards over the edge of a lock, then it all goes to worms for me. More practice needed. I'll go and stand in a trench next time

 

Richard

[magnetman]

I can get this right until I have to throw the loop upwards over the edge of a lock, then it all goes to worms for me. More practice needed. I'll go and stand in a trench next time

 

Richard

 

When I did a short tree felling course many years ago the bloke asked if anyone could throw the rope up into the tree, over a branch. I was a boater and said 'I'll try' and I did alright but not great.

 

He showed us that throwing the rope backwards over your head is the way to get it to go high up. I tried it and got it first time

It can be a bit naughty doing this in locks and you can hurt yourself so not recommended without due care and attention but sometimes the 'obvious' way to throw a rope isn't the right way, specially if you are below the object you are attempting to lasso with it.

[WJM]

"On the non-tidal Thames, you need to be able to throw a looped rope over a lock-side bollard from the boat, without the option of disembarking."

 

I have never ever done that! It can be done but it is optional. I always stand on the bank where I can watch the boat properly.

[RLWP]

When I did a short tree felling course many years ago the bloke asked if anyone could throw the rope up into the tree, over a branch. I was a boater and said 'I'll try' and I did alright but not great.

 

He showed us that throwing the rope backwards over your head is the way to get it to go high up. I tried it and got it first time

It can be a bit naughty doing this in locks and you can hurt yourself so not recommended without due care and attention but sometimes the 'obvious' way to throw a rope isn't the right way, specially if you are below the object you are attempting to lasso with it.

 

I like that. At least I won't see the mess I'm making of the job as it will be behind me!

 

Richard

[alan_fincher]

I can get this right until I have to throw the loop upwards over the edge of a lock, then it all goes to worms for me. More practice needed. I'll go and stand in a trench next time

 

Richard

Like any of these things in the boating world, your chances of success are inversely proportional to the number of spectators present, I think.

[Bones]

Hi everyone

We are seriously considering undertaking the Thames Ring and maybe (later this year) go on the Severn and then later down to Limehouse. We have been on the Avon but feel the Thames and Severn are a different kettle of fish as far as rope legths are concerned.

Our query is that we think that Thames Locks require much longer bow & stern ropes than we have at the moment (not sure about centre ropes - do these need to be longer as well? ) and am wondering what length is advisable/mandatory?

We have a 60ft narrow boat.

We would buy relatively cheap ropes for these journeys but any advice on length/diameter/eyes would be appreciated.

 

Apologies to the mods if I have posted this in the wrong section

Cheers

 

As a single hander I always made sure my ropes were at least as deep as the deepest lock I was going to go down, and then back again if I was going to stand on the roof holding two ropes as I went down (or up)

[Keeping Up]

Not on the Thames but much further north in Scotland, a friend of mine stood on the roof of his boat holding his bow rope and found himself being lifted up into the air as the lockie opened the paddles fully and the boat was swept out into the middle of the lock. But he hung on (otherwise his boat would have swung across violently) and as the lock filled he gently descended - into the water.

[Bones]

[WJM]

This probably illustrates why I do not stay on the boat. If you are on the lockside then you only need to wrap the rope a few turns around the bollard to keep it under control, no superhuman tug-o-war!

[Grace and Favour]

Not on the Thames but much further north in Scotland, a friend of mine stood on the roof of his boat holding his bow rope and found himself being lifted up into the air as the lockie opened the paddles fully and the boat was swept out into the middle of the lock. But he hung on (otherwise his boat would have swung across violently) and as the lock filled he gently descended - into the water.

 

 

I trust that ever since his nickname has been 'Dunk'?

[OldGoat]

On the Thames, NarrowBoaters are regarded with deep suspicion or even contempt by other boaters.

However showing them and the inevitable band of gongoozlers that you can handle your boat and your lines (yes, "lines" , please chaps) will result in instant approbation from all.

 

The vast majority of Thames resident boaters can't handle their -lines- or their boat, so you are instantly one up....

 

Getting on to the side of the lock going uphill is not for the fainthearted, there are steps up, but never where you want them, meanwhile your bow (if you are "driving") is rushing sideways towards the other vessels' Gelcoat.

 

So, stay on board, coil your line, leaving slack in the free end, and heave the coil in the direction of a suitable bollard. After a few ignominious attempts, you should get it right.

 

Having mastered your lines, the next lesson is how to enter a lock keeping the boat parallel to the side of the lock until you slow to a stop. Using full astern always ends in disaster, and bow thrusters are definitely cheating.

 

Do it well and "you are a better man, my friend"

[nb Innisfree]

If possible when going uphill I approach slowly so that SWMBO can step onto lock stairs with bowline and fastens that to a bollard then comes and loops my stern line round a bollard then returns to bow line. Lot less hassle than an unsuccessful throw with all the hassle that then ensues. Never mind gongoozlers and lock keepers telling you to do it a certain way, do it the way you feel happiest and safest with.

[Dovetail]

Moving my 45' narrowboat along the Thames on my own raised a few problems especially as you have to secure the boat bow and stern in the locks. The solution a rope one and a half times the length of the boat secured at the front.

Enter the lock rope round a bollard at the front of the boat along the lock and round a bollard at the back and then me pulling the rope tight to hold the boat. It worked well apart from if I was first in the lock and right up to the front gates if the lock keeper filled the lock fast then I had to muster all my strength to hold the front of the boat I think to the amusement of the lock keeper and other boaters but not the ones opposite at the time. Thankfully the vast majority of the Thames lock keepers I encountered are great and they offer help.

[WJM]

"On the Thames, NarrowBoaters are regarded with deep suspicion or even contempt by other boaters"

 

Not true - narrowboats are regarded with terror. If the boats start to move about in the lock, the steel boat will make s*** of all that white plastic. :-)

[Scotty]

When i took my narrowboat through locks on the thames I was single handed.

I got off the boat and used my centre line as normal, plus a stern line to keep the lock keepers happy.

 

With both lines looped around bollards and me in the middle, i could hold the boat as it pulled back and forth as the water level changed.

 

The only complaint i got from the lock keepers, was when i forgot to turn off my engine.

[Woollymishka]

Thanks everyone for the advice - Alan - I have my vhf license and we also have lifejackets so we should be hunky dory as they say. I just was not sure about the length of ropes but everyones comments appreciated.

Many thanks

[Tam & Di]

Not on the Thames but much further north in Scotland, a friend of mine stood on the roof of his boat holding his bow rope and found himself being lifted up into the air as the lockie opened the paddles fully and the boat was swept out into the middle of the lock. But he hung on (otherwise his boat would have swung across violently) and as the lock filled he gently descended - into the water.

 

Why anyone should think that their weight and strength should be able to hold a boat weighing several tons that is trying to get away is quite beyond. Take a turn! Once you take a turn of the end of line in your hands around the cleat/bollard or whatever, it can be held with no effort at all. Otherwise sooner or later you are bound to fetch up like the joke bell ringer who is hoisted into the air, or your friend.

 

In the UK and with narrowboats we used to do more or less as described by others. Here in France, with barges which have "proper" double bollards as fitted to all commercial vessels here, we invariably throw the eye of the line over a lockside bollard and control the boat from the boat itself, without having to risk climbing greasy ladders at all. We've now used this system with barges belonging to friends when on the Thames, and it works far better than using the bight of a line.