stevetreader Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 I have bought a narrow boat which is 57 ft long. It is fitted with a Keel Cooled Vintage Dorman 2DSM engine which seems to run well. Having had a run out on the Bridgewater I find the controls very slow you have to drop the revs then wait till the engine slows before you put it in reverse then wait for the revs to build before you start to arrest forward motion this means I can go 20 yards down the cut before starting to stop! Given the spares situation for a vintage engine and the slow response I am tempted to fit a modern engine and box in the boat which is a 1998 John White Hull. Is that something others would do or is it a no no to a canal enthusiast. What is the best engine for a 57 footer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 You got it then Steve, wondered why the boat had a new mooring earlier today, well done There's a lot of plus points and negative points over the slower revving traditional engines over the newer modern ones but don't forget that if you change the engine it'll probably also mean a replacement gearbox and prop. You'll need to do work on the current engine bed to fit the new engine in too... Any ideas on the size of the current prop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetreader Posted April 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 You got it then Steve, wondered why the boat had a new mooring earlier today, well done There's a lot of plus points and negative points over the slower revving traditional engines over the newer modern ones but don't forget that if you change the engine it'll probably also mean a replacement gearbox and prop. You'll need to do work on the current engine bed to fit the new engine in too... Any ideas on the size of the current prop? Yes it seems we did the business and the boat is in theory mine. Thinking of renaming it Treader after me dad. I believe the prop is 24 inch. I guess you run your boat with the same type of control and you don't seem to crash too often (that we see). The engine starts ok and does run nice although I have to finish the conversion from dynamo to alternator. The sound it makes is good. Judging by the forward thrust the gearbox must transmit the low down grunt into a good push which seems a lot more than 10HP but I guess thats what it was made to do. The rumours about the engines value are a bit of a myth there is a restord one on ebay at the moment and its nowwhere near the price people told me. Bit worried about the moving on the mooring I have not done it and it was chained up when I left yesterday must be ginny greenteeth the canal boat fairy in action. Just the old Boat to sell now!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamraiser2 Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 The Dorman is a wonderful old engine for a narrowboat and will run on for years and years and years. Dormans don't carry the premium prices that some of the other vintage engines do although the one on Ebay is fairly priced ( no connection to me I may add ! ). If you are considering changing the engine for a modern one I wonder if you are buying the wrong boat?. The heavy flywheel on the Dorman will delay the rev drop but once you have learn't the knack of handling a vintage motor I'm sure you will grow to love it . It'll still be worth a good price in years to come unlike most modern engines these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorman Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 The Dorman is a wonderful old engine for a narrowboat and will run on for years and years and years. Dormans don't carry the premium prices that some of the other vintage engines do although the one on Ebay is fairly priced ( no connection to me I may add ! ). If you are considering changing the engine for a modern one I wonder if you are buying the wrong boat?. The heavy flywheel on the Dorman will delay the rev drop but once you have learn't the knack of handling a vintage motor I'm sure you will grow to love it . It'll still be worth a good price in years to come unlike most modern engines these days. I have a 3 cylinder 3AL Dorman diesel in my boat and it runs sweet as a nut after fuel pump repairs. It shifts to reverse with morse control v easily with a PRM gearbox stops in 1/2 a boat length and the mighty torque compensates for any delays. Ive managed to source spares ok but it is only 1954. Just to stir up the bench l've just fitted an Axiom prop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casper ghost Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 The Dorman on ebay has been listed a few times over several months with no sale. I thought it a good price for a ready to fit vintage engine but think the 10 hp is putting buyers off. I would not change it, i'm changing my engine, it's a right pain and I don't like modern engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 I have a 3 cylinder 3AL Dorman diesel in my boat and it runs sweet as a nut after fuel pump repairs. It shifts to reverse with morse control v easily with a PRM gearbox stops in 1/2 a boat length and the mighty torque compensates for any delays. Ive managed to source spares ok but it is only 1954. Just to stir up the bench l've just fitted an Axiom prop! Hi Did you buy the boat off Steve, in Cropredy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorman Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 HiDid you buy the boat off Steve, in Cropredy? Hi It was a Steve Beck boat called Amazon through Walton Marine in Daventry--speak to Steve regularly paint etc advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 (edited) Edited to say: Yep, that was Steve's. Lovely boat which I spent many miserable freezing nights on, when it was a shell, and Steve was towing my hull (with no roof!). Happy days! http://images3b.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ff...3B5796334nu0mrj Edited April 25, 2010 by carlt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorman Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 (edited) Edited to say:Yep, that was Steve's. Lovely boat which I spent many miserable freezing nights on, when it was a shell, and Steve was towing my hull (with no roof!). Happy days! http://images3b.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ff...3B5796334nu0mrj Did he tell u the story of the day he rolled over in bed and fell into the prop shaft tunnel and couldnt get out????? Edited April 25, 2010 by Dorman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldthehouse Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 I have a 4dsm that did run but has stood many years. the one I have shown photos of on here in recent months is another one that I sold in November to member Rolimo via ebay, [Hes collecting it tomorrow]. the one I still have is complete with dashboard. The only problem with these engines is that they are of an age where because of their original installations which would be universally in seagoing vessels, that the internal corrosion is liable to have done its worst and this is the only real downside to them. the 2dsm on ebay in my opinion is vastly overpriced but I suppose its down to supply and demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 The only problem with these engines is that they are of an age where because of their original installations which would be universally in seagoing vessels, Not universally, at all. Most of the ones I've encountered originated from static generators or, in Amazon's case, iirc, a crane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timleech Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 Not universally, at all. Most of the ones I've encountered originated from static generators or, in Amazon's case, iirc, a crane. The DSM wouldn't be a crane engine, the 'M' signifying marine. Dormans seem to have done some fairly extreme derating for the marine version, from 2400rpm max to 1000 rpm, and from 25 bhp to 10 bhp, so the 10 bhp really should be an 'all day & all night' figure. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldthehouse Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 (edited) Not universally, at all. Most of the ones I've encountered originated from static generators or, in Amazon's case, iirc, a crane. not 2dsms, they were admiralty originated you are confused about model nos, #i doubt a dsm has ever been in a crane the characteristics are all wrong. Edited April 25, 2010 by soldthehouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 Did he tell u the story of the day he rolled over in bed and fell into the prop shaft tunnel and couldnt get out????? Oh yes. Steve's mishaps are legendary (then again, he would probably say the same about mine). not 2dsms, they were admiralty originated you are confused about model nos, More disinterested, than confused I thought, following "Dorman" mentioning his 3AL, we were talking about Dormans in general. Engine anorak I'm not and I shall bow out of this thread, dishonour intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy-Neil Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 Not universally, at all. Most of the ones I've encountered originated from static generators or, in Amazon's case, iirc, a crane. A Priestman dragline crane in a local scrap yard had one. Used to blow smoke rings on start up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamraiser2 Posted April 26, 2010 Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 I have a Dorman 2DSM laying around in the back of my workshop. It powered a 75' dutch barge for the boy scouts all over the Netherlands. It had enough grunt for that with room to spare. i seem to recall that an ex GUCC boat had one too. The derating comment is very true as they had to provide a constant duty figure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chertsey Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 Whatever you do, don't make a hasty decision. Give yourself time to get to know the boat with its current engine first. For my money the advantages of an old engine and trad controls outweigh the disadvantages - so give it a chance at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 Whatever you do, don't make a hasty decision. Give yourself time to get to know the boat with its current engine first. For my money the advantages of an old engine and trad controls outweigh the disadvantages - so give it a chance at least. Don't talk him out of it. I was going to give him a tenner for the old Dorman, just to help out you understand... Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles123 Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 if you are asking then the answer is go, anyone else would appreciate what a gem have and would not be asking the question Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soldthehouse Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 Can I be first in the queue.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 I was going to give him a tenner for the old Dorman, just to help out you understand... I'll up that to twenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted April 28, 2010 Report Share Posted April 28, 2010 (edited) I know it's all down to personal taste but I find it slightly amusing that someone would consider removing a classic engine to replace it with something that only deserves to be in a small bread van. Edited April 28, 2010 by Gibbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetreader Posted April 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2010 Well not much comment there. I fully intend to give it a try and see how I go on. It is mainly the spares situation that worries me I assume if anything goes wrong then I cannot just nip to Halfords. The first job is to finish fitting the alternator where the old dynamo was. I am going to use a Lucas A127 70Amp I think a smaller alternator pully will be required to get a good spin at low revs. At least the old Lucas is approaching vintage and is usually very reliable. I also have a few little water leaks to sort and then a good clean and polish. I am also thinking the three foot long gear lever will have to be altered to something more neat. I will keep you posted how it goes and might even publish some vintage engine porn for you engineers. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted April 29, 2010 Report Share Posted April 29, 2010 Well not much comment there. A unanimous opinion that you should keep it doesn't count as much comment? Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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