waiting at locks

[ditchcrawler]

It is reasonable to wind only half a paddle to start with, and to gradually increase until all paddles are up. If others are waiting to use the lock, it is unreasonable to keep at half a paddle.

 

We start with half a paddle on many locks, but we still transit a lock rapidly.

 

At the time when this is happening, I would agree that other boaters cannot insist that the boater does it differently. However, BW as navigation authority can be asked to remind the boater that they are not entitled to take as long as they like, and that if they insist on deliberately going more slowly than necessary through locks, action may be taken.

And do you think BW WOULD do anything?

 

Almost exactly twice as fast with two paddles.

 

Richard

 

To be fair, we often do the GU locks between Calcutt and Radford bottom on one side only if there are only two of us, but that's to avoid running around the gates and winding each paddle 24 times. We only do this if we are not being followed though

Same here and if the other boater is in a hurry he/she can go and open the other paddle

[alan_fincher]

Conserving and preserving the waterways is a duty taken very seriously by those of us who currently enjoy them.

But there is absolutely no reason why working locks efficiently and making good progress is in any way inconsistent with "Conserving and preserving the waterways", is there ?

 

It is of course perfectly possible for a well organised crew to work through a lock very much faster than another one who is in no rush, without putting any greater strain on the historic infrastructure whilst doing so.

 

Whether a paddle is raised or lowered, or a gate opened or closed, at the first possible appropriate moment, or after a self-enforced delay, needs to affect nothing more than the time taken to work through the lock.

 

If someone wishes to leave all ropes on the boat, and not get involved in lock-side "macramé" the same applies.

 

A crew doesn't do less damage to the canals by deciding it needs to stop again outside a lock to get aboard all the crew and animals that it failed to get on board before leaving the lock - in fact crews that insist on shunting to the side both before entering a lock, and after leaving it often tend to keep clouting the side in a way that those who just boat straight in, and straight away do not.

 

I can't get my brain around the idea that those working efficiently may in some way be doing something detrimental to the waterways, in a way that those working much slower are not, however many times I see the idea repeated.

 

By working locks efficiently it could be argued you are in your own limited way "conserving and preserving" a way of working that would further die out if everybody worked locks instead "Canaltime style".

[antarmike]

Well done big Bro, spot on. I have been thinking about past times on the canal, and whether the time wasn't right to have another go. I can see the canals have changed in the 30 years I have been away, and reading this thread is enough to convince me that I wouldn't be happy the way things are now, it would just drive me nuts. When I was boating we generally adhered to sensible speeds, but we did everything we could to keep moving.

 

We saved time by not walking round a lock to shut the other gate, by shutting one wide lock gate, and running across it at jumping to the open gate to save the walk. I used to do this when it was top gates, and you were landing on the other gate with the handrail on the far side of the balance beam. Kid brother used to jump from a closed lower gate to the open one, even though the handrail was between him and the balance beam he was aiming for.

 

I am not saying that pleasure boaters do this, but they just don't seem to realise how it was done, How much time you can save. When locking up hill with a pair of boats and a crew of only two, I would steer the pair into the lock, Pete would shut one bottom gate, run across this gate and jump onto the other, and shut it.

 

If the lock was shallow, I would leave motor in gear and climb from cabin to lockside and draw top paddles on one side whilst Bro got the other paddles up.

 

In a deep lock, I sometimes run along the boat, jumped onto the top cill, climbed the gates to get out of a lock to draw paddles, just to keep the momentum up. No namby panby ladders in the lock walls then!

 

I can see from the sorts of posts going on here, I would be in a world of my own if I tried to boat like that now. I am happy to keep my memories and am glad I don't have to wait behind some of people who have the slow boat to china attitude. I think I have read enough to know that there is no point going back and having another go. It has changed, and in my opinion , changed for the worst.

Edited April 6, 2010 by antarmike

[Hairy-Neil]

I have come across boaters who insist on only winding up just one paddle (and even then only half way) when filling a lock because (in their words) letting too much water in makes the boat bang about too much

 

As infuriating to me are those who wind up all the paddles, but then drop half of them when the water gets a foot from the top, when you need them most.....

[Hairy-Neil]

Almost exactly twice as fast with two paddles.

 

Richard

 

To be fair, we often do the GU locks between Calcutt and Radford bottom on one side only if there are only two of us, but that's to avoid running around the gates and winding each paddle 24 times. We only do this if we are not being followed though

 

 

And do you think BW WOULD do anything?

 

 

Same here and if the other boater is in a hurry he/she can go and open the other paddle

 

Why not just wait 5 minutes and share the (wide) locks with them.....

 

 

I think I have read enough to know that there is no point going back and having another go. It has changed, and in my opinion , changed for the worst.

 

Try it out of season when there aren't so many idiots about.....

[luctor et emergo]

This is fascinating reading. Especialy the comments from Antarmike, on how he used to do the locks. Very similar to how it was shown in one of those 50's films (let's go to Birmingham) Not running around, but everything in a flowing movement. Especialy details like the steerer stepping of the stern of the motor, when it is obviously still moving into the lock, to close the gate, leaving the motor to 'stop' by itself against the other gate...

 

If the survey is succesful, and I buy the boat, I will have to bring the boat down from Stafford to Devizes, which the Canal planner gives as some 218 miles, and calculates to take 8 days if you travel for 14 hours a day. When I do that journey, it will be a target to get my boat moved, not a leisurly cruise to take in the surroundings, and I will therefore seek to do locks as quick as sensible, and not hang about at 1mph tickover if it's not neccessary. Always remaining courteous of course, but if I can safely overtake a slower boat, I'll do so.

 

I'm looking forward to this.

 

[mayalld]

It was easier i suppose - i did not consider a single lock would empty much slower with one paddle open ... clearly i had slowed down by then and was just enjoying the experience of locking and general life on the canal

 

:-)

 

I suppose we can forgive you for missing the obvious due to becoming absorbed into the environment.

 

Just this once, mind!

 

 

The fact is that the main reason for the continued existence of our inland waterways, as we now know them, is because they are used for leisure cruising. If people feel the need to race about and set records for fastest times, there are other leisure pursuits that would be far better suited to their requirements. Conserving and preserving the waterways is a duty taken very seriously by those of us who currently enjoy them.

 

And how on earth is operating locks in an efficient manner, so as to ensure that the maximum possible number of people can enjoy the canals incompatible with leisure?

 

More to the point, why do you imagine that working a lock at half speed makes it more leisurely than working it efficiently.

 

Nobody is talking about rushing around. We typically cruise with just the two of us, and I'm not built for rushing around, but we can still clear most narrow locks in 10 minutes, because we look at locks with the attitude of how can I operate this lock in the best possible way.

[antarmike]

This is fascinating reading. Especialy the comments from Antarmike, on how he used to do the locks. Very similar to how it was shown in one of those 50's films (let's go to Birmingham) Not running around, but everything in a flowing movement. Especialy details like the steerer stepping of the stern of the motor, when it is obviously still moving into the lock, to close the gate, leaving the motor to 'stop' by itself against the other gate...

 

If the survey is succesful, and I buy the boat, I will have to bring the boat down from Stafford to Devizes, which the Canal planner gives as some 218 miles, and calculates to take 8 days if you travel for 14 hours a day. When I do that journey, it will be a target to get my boat moved, not a leisurly cruise to take in the surroundings, and I will therefore seek to do locks as quick as sensible, and not hang about at 1mph tickover if it's not neccessary. Always remaining courteous of course, but if I can safely overtake a slower boat, I'll do so.

 

I'm looking forward to this.

 

Its littlr tricks, like kid Bro used to shut bottom gate behind Motor just a few feet. Enough for the steerer to hold the tiller over and use the wash from the prop to finish closing it. By the time the gate was just shutting he was mon the top paddles.

 

Again, not suggesting it for todays situaation, by when water was running the weirs, (no shortage) we regularly flushed the boats out of the bottom of a lock, but winding up one ground paddle. Works particularely well when boats are l;oaded. They pop out the lock like a cork from a bottle.

[NB Alnwick]

>snip<

 

 

And how on earth is operating locks in an efficient manner, so as to ensure that the maximum possible number of people can enjoy the canals incompatible with leisure?

 

More to the point, why do you imagine that working a lock at half speed makes it more leisurely than working it efficiently.

 

Nobody is talking about rushing around. We typically cruise with just the two of us, and I'm not built for rushing around, but we can still clear most narrow locks in 10 minutes, because we look at locks with the attitude of how can I operate this lock in the best possible way.

 

Perhaps I have not been sufficiently clear in making my point. In the days when commercial carrying was economically viable, the persons operating the boats and working locks did so for a living. Therefore, they were required to be physically fit and extremely competent in order to keep their jobs and earn enough to live on. They had no time to enjoy the industrial heritage or the peace and tranquillity that modern leisure boaters derive or receive pleasure from. Also, they took short-cuts which, in some cases and by today's standards may be regarded as dangerous or damaging to the infrastructure. Today's leisure boaters are, on average, very different - the mix includes disabled boaters and octogenarians who may have difficulty climbing ladders, stepping across lock gates and winding paddles quickly; it also includes inexperienced boaters (some of them children) and a wide range of physical and mental abilities. I accept that it also includes boaters who can, when needs must, get through the locks and lift bridges very smartly and I would like to include myself in that category but I wouldn't expect Jane, who still cannot walk without a stick, to do what I do! So my point is that on our leisure waterways, being held up occasionally by someone who (through necessity or choice) is making slow progress, is inevitable and responsible boaters should show tolerance and be prepared to wait - rather than shout at them and risk spoiling their holiday.

 

Edited for spelling . . .

Edited April 7, 2010 by NB Alnwick

[romarni123]

I get really fed up when a hire boat is doing a lock and some pompous git will go up to them telling that they are doing it to slow/ wrong, as long as they are doing it safely its their lock and their holiday so people should make allowences for them. Me i like to get through them as quick as possible

[Naughty Cal]

<snip>

 

So my point is that on our leisure waterways, being held up occasionally by someone who (through necessity or choice) is making slow progress, is inevitable and responsible boaters should show tolerance and be prepared to wait - rather than shout at them and risk spoiling their holiday.

 

Edited for spelling . . .

 

Couldnt agree more. We all pay for the use of the waterways, this gives us all an equal right to use the infastructure avaliable. It is inevitable that you will, at some time or another, come across someone who is slower than yourself at working through locks/bridges. Such is life, if you are in such a rush you have to ask the question of have you left yourself enough time and should your planning have been better.

[Athy]

I get really fed up when a hire boat is doing a lock and some pompous git will go up to them telling that they are doing it to slow/ wrong, as long as they are doing it safely its their lock and their holiday so people should make allowences for them. Me i like to get through them as quick as possible

 

Better, surely, for the "pompous git" to take his windlass along and help to speed them through?

[mayalld]

I get really fed up when a hire boat is doing a lock and some pompous git will go up to them telling that they are doing it to slow/ wrong, as long as they are doing it safely its their lock and their holiday so people should make allowences for them. Me i like to get through them as quick as possible

 

I would agree - up to a point.

 

If they are doing it so slowly and badly that they are causing queues to build up, then some advice may be called for. Such advice should be offered discretely, and in a pleasant and helpful way.

 

To be honest, it isn't usually hire boaters who do locks with theatrical slowness. On the contrary, some hire boaters attempting overly challenging ring routes in a week are the ones who tend to rush, and whip paddles up on people.

[Naughty Cal]

Better, surely, for the "pompous git" to take his windlass along and help to speed them through?

 

How will they ever learn if they get a pompous git who does every lock for them?

 

Much better to offer assistance than insist on giving assistance. If they dont accept your offer walk away and put the kettle on/have a cold one.

[mayalld]

Better, surely, for the "pompous git" to take his windlass along and help to speed them through?

 

Only if the person to be speeded through is happy to be so speeded

[NB Alnwick]

How will they ever learn if they get a pompous git who does every lock for them?

 

Much better to offer assistance than insist on giving assistance. If they dont accept your offer walk away and put the kettle on/have a cold one.

 

Absolutely! Take advantage of the opportunity to have some refreshment - especially if boating single handed!

[romarni123]

If theres such a thing as boat rage I nearly had it on the tardibigge. A couple went up in front of us every lock they both got off the boat tied it up, did the lock ,went in the lock tied the boat up did the lock with one paddle cranked up one notch at a time came out the lock tied the boat up again walked back closed the gate on they went same at the next lock. Added private boat not hire boat and when i asked them if i could go before them as i had a small baby with me and it was very hot there was no way they were going to let me ,and i offered to set all the locks for them

[GeoffS]

Absolutely! Take advantage of the opportunity to have some refreshment - especially if boating single handed!

 

I have recently started a lot of single handed boating and, while I will never deliberately be awkward or hold someone up, I am certainly not going to be forced to go faster than I am comfortable and safe with. To that end I especially went out several times in the early part of this year when there was little or no traffic so I could practise and test out the best locking methods and also talked to people for advice. Calm methodical and above all safe.

 

When I am cruising I dont normally go very fast and so if I see a boat that obviously wants to pass I will pull over when it is convenient to do so, but that wont be when there are lots of other boats moored or or tight bends etc, but when it suits all concerned and I certainly wont be hassled or forced into anything.

[Keeping Up]

If theres such a thing as boat rage I nearly had it on the tardibigge.

We got very frustrated with another boat there a few years back.

 

As we exited the tunnel, a small GRP cruiser that had been following us, overtook at speed and so claimed the lock. The crew were an elderly couple; she couldn't walk unaided so was unable to get off the boat, and he had a broken arm as well as being rather frail, but they absolutely refused to allow us to help them in any way. We followed them, fuming, as they took over 20 minutes per lock - and given that it was 4pm when they entered the top lock it was obvious that there was no chance of reaching the bottom before dark. In fact they were about half way down when darkness fell, and at that point they decided to moor in the pound until morning. We then carried on down to the Queens Head at some speed, arriving just in time for a much-needed drink.

[Ynot]

I have recently started a lot of single handed boating and, while I will never deliberately be awkward or hold someone up, I am certainly not going to be forced to go faster than I am comfortable and safe with. To that end I especially went out several times in the early part of this year when there was little or no traffic so I could practise and test out the best locking methods and also talked to people for advice. Calm methodical and above all safe.

 

When I am cruising I dont normally go very fast and so if I see a boat that obviously wants to pass I will pull over when it is convenient to do so, but that wont be when there are lots of other boats moored or or tight bends etc, but when it suits all concerned and I certainly wont be hassled or forced into anything.

Ditto!

[Naughty Cal]

We got very frustrated with another boat there a few years back.

 

As we exited the tunnel, a small GRP cruiser that had been following us, overtook at speed and so claimed the lock. The crew were an elderly couple; she couldn't walk unaided so was unable to get off the boat, and he had a broken arm as well as being rather frail, but they absolutely refused to allow us to help them in any way. We followed them, fuming, as they took over 20 minutes per lock - and given that it was 4pm when they entered the top lock it was obvious that there was no chance of reaching the bottom before dark. In fact they were about half way down when darkness fell, and at that point they decided to moor in the pound until morning. We then carried on down to the Queens Head at some speed, arriving just in time for a much-needed drink.

 

We seem to have spent a lot of time waiting for narrowboats in the Trent locks this weekend.

 

Normally the lockies are very good and just let you go if the NB is about 10 minutes or so behind. This weekend we have been held up at most of them waiting for slower boats.

[Keeping Up]

We seem to have spent a lot of time waiting for narrowboats in the Trent locks this weekend.

 

Normally the lockies are very good and just let you go if the NB is about 10 minutes or so behind. This weekend we have been held up at most of them waiting for slower boats.

Fortunately the Trent, unlike Tardebigge, doesn't have 29 locks in a single flight anywhere.

[Naughty Cal]

Fortunately the Trent, unlike Tardebigge, doesn't have 29 locks in a single flight anywhere.

 

Thank goodness for that

[Strads]

Ummh - think we met the one notch of one paddle at a time team, on our return from cropredy lat year, boat from the same builders as us..- strong/robust..

 

must have had the best dinner service laid out on display.. we were some what jaw dropped at their working method and times.. not one to get many fans we thinks,

 

we had stopped for a hop based refreshment at the admiral in braunston or else would have "joined them in a lock and done a gentle sand bagging to over take them...

 

Over easter we ventured forth and found the system mostly to be quiet, even more wide beams sitting on moorings on the sourthern gu especially around Apsley..

hope our winding in windy conditions didnt bother them...

 

and two gripes at Watford - the numbnut who had moored on the top lock bollards and wasnt in sight - we touched our nose down dropped the "crew" worked the lock, only once in and started to drop the front paddles did we get a "dirty" look, as we exited they then decided to also then decend... we wouldhave waited if asked...

 

and at the botton of that lock there two semi permanent moored boats hogging/blocking the turning point and creating a land fill tip,,, nice one guys.. forcings folks to do a few more locks etc etc etc.... minor rant mode to off

[romarni123]

Thank goodness for that

Good excuse for several pints after doing them