Wood Hotter than Coal

[Sarah and Ian]

Hello All

 

Just come back from Dignity after spending Saturday night on her. Apart from the water being frozen we had a lovely if cold time at first. Here is my musing we both burn coal and wood. But we find we get a lot more warmth from burning wood. When we burn coal we notice a distinct tempreture drop on the boat. Are we using our stove wrong or is this just normal. I have the flue baffle open about a quarter and the bottom screw vent about 2 turns before its fully closed.

 

How do you do yours.

 

Many thanks

 

Ian of Ian and Sarah

[Nickhlx]

Hello All

 

Just come back from Dignity after spending Saturday night on her. Apart from the water being frozen we had a lovely if cold time at first. Here is my musing we both burn coal and wood. But we find we get a lot more warmth from burning wood. When we burn coal we notice a distinct tempreture drop on the boat. Are we using our stove wrong or is this just normal. I have the flue baffle open about a quarter and the bottom screw vent about 2 turns before its fully closed.

 

How do you do yours.

 

Many thanks

 

Ian of Ian and Sarah

 

 

I wonder if its the rate at which it burns - i.e. the wood is burning faster ?

 

Nick

[Kez]

its normal. coal does burn hotter than wood, but it needs a really good run up.

stove shape makes a difference - tall and narrow firebox, go for hard coal (anthracite)

- small, low and wide, go for bituminous coal (soft types)

clinkers on the fire itself will make it burn lower, coal produces around 8 times more ash than wood which make it seem to burn hotter.

the type of coal is the final thing. anthracite needs a good air flow just to keep going, so when loading more coal on its advisable to open the draft until the new coal has caught on.

[Smelly]

we use smokeless, bituminous and wood in combination. The bituminous seems to do as well as the well seasoned maple we've currently got, the smokeless, be it taybriite or stoveglow gets nowhere near wood.

 

We tend to try and burn wood to keep the carbon footprint down, as well as the pocket healthier, and there's a good feeling burning wood that, when you first met it, was rather big soggy logs

 

So it's a spoonful of housecoal with some timber to get the temp up in the morning, then sustain on wood (unless it burns too low in which case a few chunks of housecoal help revive things quickly) through the day, until bed time (or going to work time) when we stack it with smokeless which tends to burn longer.

[Mac of Cygnet]

Hello All

 

Just come back from Dignity after spending Saturday night on her. Apart from the water being frozen we had a lovely if cold time at first. Here is my musing we both burn coal and wood. But we find we get a lot more warmth from burning wood. When we burn coal we notice a distinct tempreture drop on the boat. Are we using our stove wrong or is this just normal. I have the flue baffle open about a quarter and the bottom screw vent about 2 turns before its fully closed.

 

How do you do yours.

 

Many thanks

 

Ian of Ian and Sarah

 

I also have a Carabo on Cygnet. I don't know whether there is more than one model, but mine is a very simple little stove. I only burn wood, but the previous owner burned coal, and it has a grate for this, so theoretically should be better for coal, but it's a tiny grate and I suspect that it could easily become choked and restrict airflow from below, which coal needs (there is no riddling mechanism), thus leading to slow burning.

 

When burning wood, the gap in front of the grate allows sufficient air in at burning level, so wood burns well, even if the grate is choked (in fact this is preferable - I've considered removing the grate, but that would entail extra firebricks. I may put a solid plate on top of the grate).

 

Incidentally, I never close down the flue baffle - it's always fully open. I can control the stove perfectly adequately with the bottom vent, and closing down the flue baffle is IMO dangerous, as it can more easily become blocked by falling soot and tar, directing flue gases into the cabin.

 

Cheers

 

Mac

[Pete of Ebor]

Hello All

 

Just come back from Dignity after spending Saturday night on her. Apart from the water being frozen we had a lovely if cold time at first. Here is my musing we both burn coal and wood. But we find we get a lot more warmth from burning wood. When we burn coal we notice a distinct tempreture drop on the boat. Are we using our stove wrong or is this just normal. I have the flue baffle open about a quarter and the bottom screw vent about 2 turns before its fully closed.

 

How do you do yours.

 

Many thanks

 

Ian of Ian and Sarah

 

I've recently had a morso badger (that's tne next size up from the Squirrel) fitted in my house - I don't have a boat yet... Although The Badger is multi-fuel, the impression I get from the manual is that for best results you should only burn wood OR solid fuel - one or other but not both together. This was explained to me by the fitter who said that when burning wood you should always leave a thick layer of ash on the grate as it protects the grate, and wood doesn't need a supply of air from underneath the fire. When burning solid fuel however, the grate should be clear to allow air up through the fire from beneath. It may be that if you aren't clearing the grate between burning wood and then burning solid fuel maybe the solid fuel isn't getting enough air.. He also said that I shouldn't burn coal but coke & smokeless are OK in my particular stove... but that's probably 'cos I'm in a smoke-control area..

[County4x4]

Another vote for wood. A good friend of mine heats his house and his hot water from a stove, and much prefers wood for it's performance over coal as much as it's carbon neutral and sustainable status.

 

I'm also a big fan of wood briquettes which have over four times the energy value of the equivalent volume of firewood, and a fraction of the moisture. The manufacturer who supplies me heats his house solely with briquettes and has just this week finished off the pallet of them that he started last February!

 

If anyone needs any up on the Lancaster - here's a shameless plug! Give me a shout if you need any - I deliver for free direct to your boat on the vistor moorings anywhere from Galgate northwards. My briquettes are also one of the very few types that are manufactured here in the UK rather than being imported from Eastern Europe.

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

[Doorman]

Another vote for wood. A good friend of mine heats his house and his hot water from a stove, and much prefers wood for it's performance over coal as much as it's carbon neutral and sustainable status.

 

I'm also a big fan of wood briquettes which have over four times the energy value of the equivalent volume of firewood, and a fraction of the moisture. The manufacturer who supplies me heats his house solely with briquettes and has just this week finished off the pallet of them that he started last February!

 

If anyone needs any up on the Lancaster - here's a shameless plug! Give me a shout if you need any - I deliver for free direct to your boat on the vistor moorings anywhere from Galgate northwards. My briquettes are also one of the very few types that are manufactured here in the UK rather than being imported from Eastern Europe.

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

 

We've only just started using a Morso Squirrel solid fuel stove on our boat and I've been experimenting with wood and or coal. Each seems to have its own merits in terms of cost etc., My main concern was in getting the fire lit before frostbite set in. I tried the conventional little firelighters and rolls of newspaper/ kindling with some success, then graduated on to firelighter briquettes from our local Home Bargains store.

 

These not only light the fire much quicker, but then continue to burn for over an hour! I cut them in half which makes them pretty cheap at 50p/half briquette.

Once lit, I stoke the fire up with several nuggets of smokeless coal, then nurture it along as and when. Another type of briquette I've tried today, is one that was featured in January's edition of Waterways World. This one is made from the remnants of Rape seed fuel oil production and burns extremely well, as you mention in your post.

 

Once again, I cut these in half and they really get the heat up in very little time, more expensive than the Home Bargains variant though! We have a back boiler on the stove which is connected in series with our diesel central heating boiler (only one can be used at any given time), I've found that the rads get warmer when using the briquettes, thankfully, staving off the frostbite!

 

Andy, we're moored at Scarisbrick Marina, near Southport, does your offer extend south of Galgate?

 

Mike

[County4x4]

Hello Mike,

 

I'd be very happy to take a trip down to Scarisbrick to see you, but unfortunately I'd have to charge for delivery as it's a 110 mile round trip from here according to the AA route planner, and that would cost me more in diesel (approx 25mpg in the van) than I'd make on the briquettes!

 

However, if a few of you down there wanted a supply, we could consolidate the order and split the delivery cost between you which would make it a better deal. I'm quite happy to make the trip if you can sort out an order for you and your neighbours.

 

I think there's a great future for briquettes of all sorts - there's very little vegetable material that they can't be made from. I think the biggest thing to get people over is the fact that they don't look like much for the money. The ones I'm doing now come in a 10 kilo pack that only measures 37 x 25 x 10cm - and it looks like next to nothing. What I really need to get across to people is that that tiny little package contains the same amount of energy as around 40 kilos of seasoned firewood! Once they come to realise that, it starts to look like a much better deal! As I said, the manufacturer has heated his own house solely with these, and a pallet full has lasted just shy of a full year. Not a chance you could do that with firewood of any variety!

 

If you can sort something out as far as an order goes just let me know and I'll load up!

 

Cheers for now,

 

Andy

[Derek R.]

 

Seasoned hardwood will burn fiercer than most black stuff, but mainly because it will burn faster - and consequently you'll be feeding it more.

Wood needs air from above and lay on a bed of ash preferrably, though I mix the two to make the black stuff last longer (my wood I collect, I don't buy).

This range is in the shed, 12' square, 10' headroom, four inches of insulation mostly glass wool, vapour barriers both sides, lined in Stirling board. 20°C inside, -3°C out. It will maintain that temperature with ease just ticking over. I seem to remember that was Phurnacite on the shovel. I'm using Multi-heat just now - stays in well.

 

On the boat with the Mörso Squirrel and back boiler, we favoured Stovesse nuts, but added anything we found in or beside the cut. Got through one complete winter in the early - mid eighties on gathered wood alone (all laying). It was cold too.

 

We had a seriously knackered Rayburn in Scotland that would not bake much on black stuff, but put wood in there and we were cooking! Didn't half have some spectacular chimney fires!!! Roaring like a jet engine on afterburner . . . every stick is fought over up there.

[Doorman]

Hello Mike,

 

I'd be very happy to take a trip down to Scarisbrick to see you, but unfortunately I'd have to charge for delivery as it's a 110 mile round trip from here according to the AA route planner, and that would cost me more in diesel (approx 25mpg in the van) than I'd make on the briquettes!

 

However, if a few of you down there wanted a supply, we could consolidate the order and split the delivery cost between you which would make it a better deal. I'm quite happy to make the trip if you can sort out an order for you and your neighbours.

 

I think there's a great future for briquettes of all sorts - there's very little vegetable material that they can't be made from. I think the biggest thing to get people over is the fact that they don't look like much for the money. The ones I'm doing now come in a 10 kilo pack that only measures 37 x 25 x 10cm - and it looks like next to nothing. What I really need to get across to people is that that tiny little package contains the same amount of energy as around 40 kilos of seasoned firewood! Once they come to realise that, it starts to look like a much better deal! As I said, the manufacturer has heated his own house solely with these, and a pallet full has lasted just shy of a full year. Not a chance you could do that with firewood of any variety!

 

If you can sort something out as far as an order goes just let me know and I'll load up!

 

Cheers for now,

 

Andy

 

Cheers Andy,

 

as soon as we can get free of this ice in Tamworth and sail back home, at the risk of losing our tree surgeon friend who delivers firewood, I'll get some heads together and see what sort of volume we can come up with. Also, while I'm stuck down here with nothing else to do, I'll look up on Autotrader and see if I can recommend a better van that does more than 25mpg

 

Thanks again,

 

Mike

[County4x4]

Also, while I'm stuck down here with nothing else to do, I'll look up on Autotrader and see if I can recommend a better van that does more than 25mpg

 

Thanks again,

 

Mike

 

Ahhh that's all very well Mike - but it's not allowed to be put off by a bit of snow or other dodgy road conditions. That's why I use this!

 

 

I don't always park like that incidentally.......

 

Andy

[blackrose]

I wonder if its the rate at which it burns - i.e. the wood is burning faster ?

 

Nick

 

I think that's basically it. I don't think wood has a higher calorific value either by weight or volume, it's just that it's difficult to get wood to burn slowly because it tends to produce tar (or perhaps that's just me using unseasoned wood?) So most people just chuck wood on and it burns quicker than coal and it produces lots of heat so it seems hotter than coal - but if you took the same weight or volume of coal and wood and measured their respective heat outputs over a given time then I don't think you'd get a higher result for wood.

[Derek R.]

Unseasoned wood will produce more tar, but if you run a small fire hot enough, it shouldn't be much of a problem unless you have an unlined chimney above roof level. I can never understand how some folk can put up with black stains running down the cabin side. Ignorance or laziness - either one or both.

 

Nice 4x4 van! A County no doubt! I had a longing for a UAS many years ago. Garage over Thame way was a distributor, but I stuck with the 2cv's. Surprising what you can get in them.

[twocvbloke]

Garage over Thame way was a distributor, but I stuck with the 2cv's. Surprising what you can get in them.

 

If I could I'd hug ya...

[nb Innisfree]

From my 'bible' :

 

Calorific value of solid fuels.

 

BTU/lb ----- kWh/kg

 

Dry wood 6,800---- 4.39

Soft coal 11,100---- 7.16

'Steam coal' 14,500---- 9.35

Anthracite 14,800---- 9.55

Coke 13,000---- 8.39

 

Doesn't state whether wood is soft or hard, assume hard, if so weight for weight coal and smokeless wins

Edited January 12, 2010 by nb Innisfree

[County4x4]

Yes it's a County Derek - originally built at vast expense for South Wales Electricity Board. I've removed the underfloor winch it came with for the time being - it would have grounded with it on an approach angle that steep. Slow and thirsty but would take an awful lot of persuading to part with her!

 

Back on the wood/coal subject - one thing that quite a few people like about wood these days is it's carbon neutral and sustainable status. The briquettes also have the bonus that they are made from material that once upon a time would have been destined for the nearest landfill site. That probably won't cut much ice with you hardcore coal burners - but an increasing number of folks are thinking it's an important plus point.

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

[Doorman]

Ahhh that's all very well Mike - but it's not allowed to be put off by a bit of snow or other dodgy road conditions. That's why I use this!

 

 

I don't always park like that incidentally.......

 

Andy

 

 

No chance of it getting clamped there then!

 

Will be in touch when we eventually get back.

 

Mike