Back Pain ~ Tall People

[kendo]

hi all.

 

i occasionally get a bad back (lower lumbar region). I can stand fully upright in the middle of the boat. but anywhere else requires some bending, stooping and twisting which plays merry hell with the supporting muscles. A good nights sleep on the hard bed or floor sorts it out, but the next day it will be rinse and repeat all over again.

 

We're on the thames at the moment, and i'm concerned that when we start doing canal locks, i might knacker it completely. (leaving mrs dogma to steer and crew solo, which she does not relish).

 

Is there any sort of biking clothing, or sportswear which will protect and strengthen the region?

i suppose a "man girdle" is what i'm asking about. but i doubt 'blokes' would call it that.

something like a "kidney belt", i guess.

 

At 6ft, i'm not exactly a giant.

thought i'd ask other tall people how they cope.

 

 

thankyou.

Ken

[nb Innisfree]

hi all.

 

i occasionally get a bad back (lower lumbar region). I can stand fully upright in the middle of the boat. but anywhere else requires some bending, stooping and twisting which plays merry hell with the supporting muscles. A good nights sleep on the hard bed or floor sorts it out, but the next day it will be rinse and repeat all over again.

 

We're on the thames at the moment, and i'm concerned that when we start doing canal locks, i might knacker it completely. (leaving mrs dogma to steer and crew solo, which she does not relish).

 

Is there any sort of biking clothing, or sportswear which will protect and strengthen the region?

i suppose a "man girdle" is what i'm asking about. but i doubt 'blokes' would call it that.

something like a "kidney belt", i guess.

 

At 6ft, i'm not exactly a giant.

thought i'd ask other tall people how they cope.

 

 

thankyou.

Ken

 

I've just posted on this subject in the virtual pub.

 

I am 62 and 6' tall and have suffered with my back for a while now following an injury many years ago and to avoid any more injury I always lift things centrally and try not to adopt an angle less than 90deg between your thighs and back, this is very important as it pinches the discs in your back. If you do need to bend to do something that involves less than 90 deg don't do it for more than a few seconds, for instance if I need to do any thing to a car engine etc I kneel rather than bend. Try to keep supple with gentle regular exercise and flexing. Ignore your ego!

[kendo]

I've just posted on this subject in the virtual pub.

sorry... i stumbled on that thread after i'd posted this one.

there was a lot of helpful info in there.

 

commiserations to RWLP. i hope he's back on his feet soon.

 

 

trouble is, moving around inside the boat is always bending at less than 90 degrees?

do i need to learn to walk like a cossack?

 

that's why i was wondering if clothing may help with the stooping.

As one poster in the other thread observed, when your back is in pain, you tend

not to want to stress the muscles, and consequently you stoop even more.

 

Will definitely be giving those exercises a whirl though.

 

thanks.

[ChrisPy]

When I get bad twinges of lower back pain and sciatica (originating from an old injury when I fell on my back) I wear a lumbar support belt for a few days and take iboprufen. It allows me to relax. I can forget about favouring my back and tensing my back muscles to keep it straight. It seems that the mere act of relaxation allows the swollen trapped nerves to shrink and the pain is gone.

 

But the lumbar support belt, when properly tightened, does not allow me to stoop. I would have to bend my knees in low headroom situations.

 

I'm 6-1 and have no problem with headroom. You really need to raise the ceiling or lower the floor

[David Schweizer]

I am nearly 6ft tall and am presumably lucky insofar as the headroom on our boat is 6ft 4ins, and the front footwell step is only 14inches with a 5ft dooor, so the amount of bending is very little. However my wife has been prone to lower backpain for many years, and has found an excellent Cranial Osteopath clinic in Bradford on Avon who seem to be able to keep her free of pain most of the time, (Wrigglefingers uses the same practise)

 

You are a long way fro BoA but she has an appointment on Thursday, so if you would like the contact details of a consultant near you I am sure that her Osteopath would know of a good one in youir locality. PM me if you do not wish to give too many deatials on a publc forum.

Edited December 16, 2009 by David Schweizer

[RLWP]

The only advice I'd offer is to open lock gates with your back, not your arms. Lean against the gate admiring the view, chatting with other crews and so on until the gate starts to move. Then walk backwards with your bottom against the gate. The worst thing is to put all the stress through your arms, shoulders, lower back and legs.

 

Looks more professional too!

 

Richard

 

Oh, and I'm a shortarse myself. It's really your own fault, you should have stopped growing when you reached a sensible height

Edited December 16, 2009 by RLWP

[nb Innisfree]

sorry... i stumbled on that thread after i'd posted this one.

there was a lot of helpful info in there.

 

commiserations to RWLP. i hope he's back on his feet soon.

 

trouble is, moving around inside the boat is always bending at less than 90 degrees?

do i need to learn to walk like a cossack?

 

that's why i was wondering if clothing may help with the stooping.

As one poster in the other thread observed, when your back is in pain, you tend

not to want to stress the muscles, and consequently you stoop even more.

 

Will definitely be giving those exercises a whirl though.

 

thanks.

 

You've misunderstood my post, 90 deg is not upright, that is 180 deg, it's the angle formed by your thighs and your spine i.e. 90 deg is standing with your upper legs vertical and then you bend from the waist until your spine is parallel with the floor.

Edited December 16, 2009 by nb Innisfree

[Naughty Cal]

Oh, and I'm a shortarse myself. It's really your own fault, you should have stopped growing when you reached a sensible height

 

Fully agree

 

(coming from a 5'3" short arse)

[Barry]

I use a lumbar support belt from time to time

 

Occasionally I put my back out and one of these (clicky) helps to support it while it is very weak. I stop using it as soon as I can.

[grahoom]

Not being tall, standing isn't a problem in my boat - although I do suffer from back pain - so taking not of advice given so far.

[Tim Doran]

Word of warning, dont remove all the batteries in a panic and bust your back like I think I have just done.

[Nightwatch]

Hi

One of my sons is 6'7" tall and is a butcher.

 

Hes on his feet throughout the day and obviously has to cut/chop meat standing at the chopping block with is too short (if raised others will find it too high).

He is quite strong as he lifts big lumps of cow and pig etc.

Occasionally he gets back pains and he then visits his chiropractor who then seems to sort it out. This normally happens at this time of year when he is working 14/15 hour days seven days a week for the buildup to Christmas.

 

 

Just to add, he really doesn't enjoy Christmas as he is knack==ed Christmas day.

 

Occupational hazard I suspect.

 

Martyn

[kendo]

I use a lumbar support belt from time to time

ahh.. 'lumbar support belt'. thanks Bazza (and ChrisPy). i'm going to get one of those for the

borderline days, when i'm tempted to bend my back, but really shouldn't.

 

You've misunderstood my post, 90 deg is not upright, that is 180 deg

my mistake, sorry. I thought you were talking about the angle from the vertical. which is where

the pain lies. from the vertical, i guess i'm about 10-15 degrees, when moving around inside the

boat, which really stresses the support muscles.

 

It's really your own fault, you should have stopped growing when you reached a sensible height

it does have it's compensations, phylis. i can clear the cabin roof of spider's webs with my hair, which

has saved us a fortune on dusters.

 

If i can sort this out myself, i'd rather do that than venture down the chiropractor route.

I noticed that there is a book (from the other thread). So will be investing in that, too.

 

Thanks for the locking tips, RLWP.

cheers, people. appreciated.

[~ HD ~]

maybe these would help ? ..

 

i'm 6ft .. but not a boat owner ..

at home .. if i can acomplish a 'bending' task by lying down .. i will ..

e.g today i was messing with an electrical socket at floor level ..

rather than risk bending or keeling .. i lay down 'n dealt with the job ..

 

my choice is ice-pack .. ( and consumtion of the organics mentioned in the vp 'back pain' thread )

i.e prior if possible .. but def. after doing anything that would stress the back ..

 

given potential freezer limitations on a boat .. i'd be tempted to keep these handy ..

( in my case attempts at bracing the back seemed to make it worse .. so i gave up on the idea :-)

 

.. Ice Cold Skin Coolant ..

~ http://www.matchsports.co.uk/index.php?mai...products_id=270 ~

" A covenient spray which provides an instant cooling effect.

Can help reduce the sensation of burns, sprains, cramp and inflammation. "

 

Ibuleve (ibuprofen)

~ http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100001314.html ~

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

boatwise ( generaly ) .. i'd try and design the interior from scratch ..

i.e. all work heights .. seating .. equipment access ..

block 'n tackle rig for battery removal as opposed to lifting it ..

( it's hardly the weight .. rather .. the lifting angle that causes the back prob. )

no height in engine room ? .. i'd think about strategically placed hatchs ..

and give a lot of thought to siting the bits that need access for servicing ..

i.e. filters and the like .. .. 'n custom made work tools ..

e.g a long handled socket wrench that could be used standing up to do a particular task ..

the list could go on and on .. :-)

umbiblical chord remote engine-rudder controls for the crewless operators ..

i.e. control the boat from the bow area if needed ..

all the helm area controls .. standing and seating positions .. carefully thought out

etc etc ..

[nb Innisfree]

When I fitted our kitchen (house) out many years ago I raised worktops by 4" in an attempt to cure my wife's persistant lower back pain and it totally cured the prob. Our galley w/tops are 39" high missus is 5' 6", they are a bit on the high side for her but better than too low. Ok for my 6' height.

[kendo]

in my case attempts at bracing the back seemed to make it worse .. so i gave up on the idea

oh dear. if you don't mind me asking, was/is your problem muscular, or skeletal?

i'm pretty sure my pain stems from torn ligaments many years ago. don't think i've knackered the spine itself, just the supporters. hurts to stand fully upright for any great length of time after they've been twanged. and moving around the boat twangs them, unfortunately.

 

thanks for the tips, though. i keep forgetting how miraculous ibuprofen is, and should really get some down me. freezer compartment is tiny, won't even store a bag of mini peas. but i get what you're saying. if you can take the strain off.... do it. Will have to be a bit more disciplined and try to think one step ahead, in future. if the belt isn't going to work very well, i'd better start looking at some ligament strengthening exercises too. cheers HD..

 

I raised worktops by 4" in an attempt to cure my wife's persistant lower back pain and it totally cured the prob.

i've noticed that, too. everything seems just 'that little bit' too short in most places i've ever lived, or visited. even doing the washing up can be a stretch, because the sink is too low. I think the boat's surfaces are an adequate height at the moment. But thanks for the reminder. I'll be spending a lot of time on those worktops, so will make sure things are at a workable height.

 

[Barry]

oh dear. if you don't mind me asking, was/is your problem muscular, or skeletal?

i'm pretty sure my pain stems from torn ligaments many years ago. don't think i've knackered the spine itself, just the supporters. hurts to stand fully upright for any great length of time after they've been twanged. and moving around the boat twangs them, unfortunately.

 

thanks for the tips, though. i keep forgetting how miraculous ibuprofen is, and should really get some down me. freezer compartment is tiny, won't even store a bag of mini peas. but i get what you're saying. if you can take the strain off.... do it. Will have to be a bit more disciplined and try to think one step ahead, in future. if the belt isn't going to work very well, i'd better start looking at some ligament strengthening exercises too. cheers HD..

 

 

i've noticed that, too. everything seems just 'that little bit' too short in most places i've ever lived, or visited. even doing the washing up can be a stretch, because the sink is too low. I think the boat's surfaces are an adequate height at the moment. But thanks for the reminder. I'll be spending a lot of time on those worktops, so will make sure things are at a workable height.

 

 

If you don't mind me saying so...looking at your avatar your lifting technique could do with a look at as well

[~ HD ~]

re:

** and twisting which plays merry hell with the supporting muscles. **

 

something else that could wreak havoc be slipping or lurching ..

the instictive reaction of the muscles in order to regain balance can take one's back out ..

i.e. suddenly take it out .. like as happened to RWLP in the vp. thread ..

( or the pain/lock-up can often be a result of something one did the day before )

anyhow .. i would have thought well-placed handholds around the boat would be an advantage

i.e. if the boat hit something or you lost your footing somehow ..

( i.e. handholds and supports similar to what one would find in a well designed seaboat )

rekon i'd make sure there were supports of some nature around line handling areas ..

i.e. throwing lines 'n securing them to the boat bollards etc ..

maybe going to the point of customising the bollard heights somehow ..

[loner]

Do a lot of stretching and walking everyday. Both will help prevent the pain. Walking and easy stretching is also good to do when it hurts.

 

If it is hurting, apply ice 20 minutes per hour. That will reduce the swelling. Only use pain killer to rest. Hiding the pain will keep you from knowing you are doing something wrong. Wear a back support as little as possible. Long term use will weaken the muscles and your back will be worse than ever.

 

See a chiropractor if it persists.

 

A rubber nonslip mat is better to stand on than a steel floor.

[~ HD ~]

~ kendo ~

 

re:

** .. if you don't mind me asking, was/is your problem muscular, or skeletal? **

skeletal .. but re reading your OP .. my thought is that the two interact ..

i.e. if there is a muscle prob .. then that would effect the load on the skeletal system ..

 

i'd say find out exactly what's going on with your back from a chiro .. or similar back pro. ..

 

.. i think of the back structure like a sailing rig with stayed masts ..

or jib-crane .. i.e. cabling .. pivot points .. loads .. joint bearings .. and the like ..

or a cable-suspension bridge .. .. .. subject to various loads ..

so if 'one thing starts to wrong it will effect other parts of the system' type interaction ..

( helps me visualise the problem .. )

 

what usually occurs is the body sustains a trauma to the back support system .. muscles .. tendons .. discs .. etc

irritated nerve ( as like a slipped-disc ) .. .. .. the body sends blood to the traumatised area ..

that inflames the muscles .. which then pull harder on the skeletal bits ( like the discs .. )

they in turn .. as well as the inflamed muscle tissue .. put pressure on those back Nerves ..

which informs the body of yet more trauma .. so it increases the blood supply to that area ..

 

it becomes a never ending circle ..

the way to break the circle is to get the muscles to quieten down ( so to speak )

( btw : those goji berries i mentioned in other thread ..

( they include a relaxed 'feel good' factor .. a real help in calming the muscles 'n nerves

( and the Kombucha is an excellent tissue healer .. and relaxing as well ..

 

i've had my back go out from sustained emotional anxiety :-)

that well .. can tense the back muscles up to the point where they start to exert pressure on a nerve ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

my back probs are due to : ..

the shape itself is prone to it .. chiro said i could be built like arnie atlas ..

it would make no difference ..

the main root cause is a worn disc in my lower back ..

( can see a wedge shape missing in an x-ray )

i imagine it wore due to a few yeas behind the wheel of artic-hgvs ..

that was back in the 70's u.s.a ..

i.e. read shyte roads east-coast side .. cement slabs .. not smooth tarmac ..

and truck cab ergonomics that were lacking to say the least ..

the driver being some 9ft above the road ( in a cab-over design ) is subject to constant pitching motions..

and potential jarring shocks to the spine ..

not to mention the anxiety and stress of dealing with car drivers ( uh oh :-)))

and upset customers ( that load was supposed to be here yesterday)

and crafty weigh station officials ..

( ooooh lookee .. an iced up truck .. that's at least 2000 overweight 'n that's worth a 400 dollar fine )

yes there were shock absorbing seats .. up down 'n back and forth ..

but hours behind the wheel .. slouching at times :-(( ..

i doubt that heeled cowboy boots did my back any favours either .. :-))

 

then .. one day walking along a street admiring the autumn colors ..

i had this almighty pain in my back that had me clinging to the nearest lampost for support ..

( karma .. four wheelers revenge :-)

that was the start of it ..

similar happened again about a year later ..

and kept happening on and off ..

 

bynote: the times i've been to sea since .. and not often .. but enough to figure ..

the back discomfort vanishes .. :-)

i put it down to the oxygen rich sea-air and constant rolling-pitching of the deck ..

i.e. the muscles are continuously moving to keep balance .. less chance of a lock-up scenerio ..

that's my theory in anycase .

talking to the chiro and doc .. they both advised to keep 'moving' ..

i.e to combat the 'muscle-locking-up thing .

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

( edited to add )

chiro showed me a technique to unlock the muscle ..

( e.g. for me it's one that connects to the hip )

she would put strong finger pressure on the point where the join is

( can't remember if that's ligament or tendon ) .. anyhow ..

at some point .. the pain from that suddenly vanishes ..

( i.e. from the finger pressure )

that's when she would release the pressure altogether ..

and that .. caused the muscle to relax and unwind .. :-)

it's easy to do if one knows the point to press on ..

Edited December 18, 2009 by ~ HD ~

[nb Innisfree]

Another thing that helped enormously with my bad back was to recline the driver's seat in our car.

[Lady Muck]

I had a bad back for years, problem turned out to be my feet!

I used to run lots and got shin splints so I had a biomechanic assesement from a podiatrist. I now wear orthotics (insoles). Cost about £400 but worth every penny.

I had physio and acupuncture at my gym, the acupuncture worked, the tensed muscles in my back released with the treatment. Prior to this, I'd had physio on the NHS but I feel that they didn't treat me for long enough and I 'did my back in' again.

I also did a course in Iyengar yoga and I find that some of the poses really helped.

Not really had any problems since I had all this treatment, if my back feels a bit sore, I do some yoga.

 

You could try some of these videos http://tinyurl.com/yg98zdh

 

e2a

 

Managed about 600 locks this summer by doing this:

 

The only advice I'd offer is to open lock gates with your back, not your arms. Lean against the gate admiring the view, chatting with other crews and so on until the gate starts to move. Then walk backwards with your bottom against the gate. The worst thing is to put all the stress through your arms, shoulders, lower back and legs.

 

then a few yoga stretches in the evening.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Lady Muck

[DHutch]

My back hurts often (including now) and its a right pain in the... back!

 

I have exercises from both my mum and gp and they do help but i rairly find time to do them even when it hurts and almost never before hand. Combinatoin of being a lanky sod, sitting at a desk for to much, and then lifting something heavy oddly.

 

My grandad and mum also have back problems. Grandad has a belt for driving and other things. Straps round tightly with a lot of metal strips down the back.

 

 

Daniel

[kendo]

If you don't mind me saying so...looking at your avatar your lifting technique could do with a look at as well

fair comment, Bazza2. I normally do try and lift 'correctly'. the avatar pic was taken on a bad

day, when lifting properly (with my trunk vertical), would have strained the muscles even more.

In my defence, at least you can see, my back is straight, and the knees bent to brace. arms

carried the weight. but your point is taken.

 

Do a lot of stretching and walking everyday

nod... i have a dog, and love the fresh air and exercise that entails.

 

re reading your OP .. my thought is that the two interact

See a chiropractor if it persists

nod.. i'm coming around to this viewpoint. a professional diagnosis would let me know categorically what i've done. it could be that years of potholes and Vespa riding has dinged my spine more than i'd imagined, and it's not just the ripped

ligaments which are the problem. appreciate your POV.

 

Wear a back support as little as possible. Long term use will weaken the muscles and your back will be worse than ever.

that's a lot of no votes. so i won't be wandering down lumbar belt avenue.

thanks for the advice, everyone.

 

if my back feels a bit sore, I do some yoga

discovered some good stretches on the other thread. and yoga is free. bonus.

sorry i laughed about your feet when i read it. but i'm glad you've gotten it

sorted now. it's reassuring to hear that locks can be done without pain and

bending.

 

Hope you all have a painfree xmas.

 

[KeithL]

Another thing that helped enormously with my bad back was to recline the driver's seat in our car.

 

The best thing i did for my back was buy a volvo! they seem to have the most supportive seats out of any car ive owned, I also take msm and collagen supplements as these are meant to be good for joints.