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Police stop and search photographers

fender

By fender
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fender Rising Star

fender

Posted
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Quite a few items in the papers and on the net this week about stop and searches by police where people are taking photographs of street scenes or public buildings.

 

These include the Houses of Parliament which as everyone knows sits by the river in London.

 

But it can also include places along the canal, such as Paddington Basin. Given that the basin is next to the station which is covered by section 44, it may explain the police's and security's desire to prevent peple taking photos of the boats. But they cant reasonably refuse photography and they cannot force people to have over their cameras or force deletion of the photographs that have been taken.

 

Also names and addresses do not have to be given, you can say, I'm taking photographs of the canal and its boats. If a policeman says you have to give details you simply say "thank you officer, I've explained why I am here. I don't want to give any details."

 

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/...ews_292552.html

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-...ts-1833327.html

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columni...u-arrested.html

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timetraveller Engager

timetraveller

Posted
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"Also names and addresses do not have to be given, you can say, I'm taking photographs of the canal and its boats. If a policeman says you have to give details you simply say "thank you officer, I've explained why I am here. I don't want to give any details."

 

Yeah, and then the police officer says "that's ok, I'm arresting you under section 76 of the Counter-Terrorism Act 2008" for failing to provide details when so requested".

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churchward Veteran II

churchward

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Of course, it is much harder for 'trainspotters' these days too . . .

Indeed it is. Although if you are stood on Railway property (ie a station) it is not the same as taking photos in the street. You are not on ground where there is a specific public right of way.

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blackrose Veteran II

blackrose

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We've got to keep things in perspective. When I lived in Japan I was obliged to carry a gaigin card with my details, photograph and a fingerprint, simply for being a foreigner. Imagine if we tried that here! :lol: If you couldn't produce the card on request as happened to me on a couple of occasions because I happened to leave it at home, it meant an hour or two at a police station explaining oneself and signing an apology. (gaigin literally translates as outsider).

 

I was once stopped by a policeman in broad daylight in the suburbs of Tokyo. I produced my card so he was able to check my visa status etc, but he still insisted I accompany him to the police station. When I refused he pointed his gun at me and told me he'd like to shoot me. (Not so funny :lol: )

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grahoom Rising Star

grahoom

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We've got to keep things in perspective. When I lived in Japan I was obliged to carry a gaigin card with my details, photograph and a fingerprint, simply for being a foreigner.

 

 

You are aware of the governments ID card Scheme.....

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fender Rising Star

fender

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Of course, it is much harder for 'trainspotters' these days too . . .

 

yes I've read in the railway media quite a few examples. However I was told if one sought permission first then it should be ok. But often permission is refused so its really catch 22. I was recently asked not to take photographs at Paddington rail station, so I just put the camera in my rucsack and walked away.

 

People who breeze through some place with a camera taking one or two shots are usually ignored, however if one takes a number of shots in sequence it is usually these that arouse suspicion. Anyone can get many varied perspectives (even better ones than actually being out there taking photographs) of many of our major buildings from the internet, eg Google Streets. As one of the news articles pointed out, one of the Google street views of St Pauls cathedral has a police car complete with its number plate clearly visible.

 

Another article of interest:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/photoblog/2009/...of_the_law.html

 

For foreigners or for everyone?

 

Anyway, I thought they'd scraped the plan?

 

no its actually started!

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8385754.stm

 

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/24563/an...-id-card-holder

Edited by fender
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blackrose Veteran II

blackrose

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Well, like most people I'm not in favour, but I think the idea of the scheme is eventually to cover all of us, not just foreigners, so I don't think it's overtly racist like the Japanese system.

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grahoom Rising Star

grahoom

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For foreigners or for everyone?

 

Anyway, I thought they'd scraped the plan?

 

Nope its not scrapped - it's still there, infact in you live in Manchester you can buy one on the trail system.

 

and regarding foreign nationals

 

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/managing...reignnationals/

 

The compulsory identity card for foreign nationals was introduced in November 2008, and is for migrants from outside the European Economic Area (EEA) and Switzerland.

 

The card is being rolled out by immigration application type, and is currently issued to a wide range of migrants and their dependants when they apply to extend their stay in the United Kingdom. We are now accelerating roll-out of the card to other categories of migrant, starting with skilled workers who apply to extend their stay under Tier 2 of the points-based system. You can find out more on the Who needs an identity card for foreign nationals? page.

 

Under our current roll-out plans, by April 2011 any migrant extending their stay in the United Kingdom or coming here for more than six months will need to apply for an identity card for foreign nationals as part of their immigration application.

 

regarding perspective - I think people being stopped from taking photographs of Christmas lights, and land marks is pretty skewed - shouldn't the police be the ones putting things into perspective?

Edited by grahoom
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kiki Proficient

kiki

Posted
Posted (edited)
You are aware of the governments ID card Scheme.....

 

 

I've sent off for the form. I am interested to see what sort of information it will contain. Its volunatary in the Manchester area at the moment, if you either live or work in Manchester.

 

I don't mind carrying one at all, but not sure how much use it would be, as its a long time since I have been ID'd at a pub, club or supermarket.

Will let you know what they look like when it arrives tomorrow.

 

Edited to add - I am no longer foreign, been British for 10 years now, just thought to clear that up. Its more for convenience and curiosity purposes.

Edited by kiki
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grahoom Rising Star

grahoom

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Posted
I've sent off for the form. I am interested to see what sort of information it will contain. Its volunatary in the Manchester area at the moment, if you either live or work in Manchester.

 

I don't mind carrying one at all, but not sure how much use it would be, as its a long time since I have been ID'd at a pub, club or supermarket.

Will let you know what they look like when it arrives tomorrow.

 

Edited to add - I am no longer foreign, been British for 10 years now, just thought to clear that up. Its more for convenience and curiosity purposes.

 

You are aware that if you have an ID card then the onus is on you to make sure all the data is kept up to date, and there is the probability of a fine if any of the information is incorrect?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7742619.stm

 

I think the amount of data is kept in the National Identity Register is in the region of 50 pieces - so you must make sure this is kept up to date, or you're gonna get a fine. - Hope the convenience is worth it. (not entirely sure what the convenience will be...)

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grahoom Rising Star

grahoom

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Yes, they should, but so should we. It works both ways.

 

so taking photographs of tourist places is out of perspective?

 

Kiki - just looked at the ID card web site

 

Please note that you are required by law to keep IPS informed of any changes to your personal information. The guidance notes which accompany the form explain how to do this. If you deliberately choose not to let IPS know that your details have changed, you may have to pay a civil penalty of up to £1,000. Once you update your details, the penalty may be waived.

 

so it's a £1,000 fine ... sorry civil penalty ... for not keeping it up to date...

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grahoom Rising Star

grahoom

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Police have the power to override your 'civil liberties' if they consider you may be a risk.

 

How would someone consider you to be at risk if you are taking a photograph of - for example - christmas light being turned on?

 

as for getting used to it - I am glad some people don't wish to get used to it and are willing to make themselves heard.

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kiki Proficient

kiki

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You are aware that if you have an ID card then the onus is on you to make sure all the data is kept up to date, and there is the probability of a fine if any of the information is incorrect?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7742619.stm

 

I think the amount of data is kept in the National Identity Register is in the region of 50 pieces - so you must make sure this is kept up to date, or you're gonna get a fine. - Hope the convenience is worth it. (not entirely sure what the convenience will be...)

 

 

Hmm thanks for the insider info - still waiting for the form so will check it out. As I said earlier, not sure what I would use it for, or if I would even get it, but am used to carrying one in the past and found it convenient for things like the bank when you had to have ID but not sure if its going to be the same here.

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kiki Proficient

kiki

Posted
Posted
so taking photographs of tourist places is out of perspective?

 

Kiki - just looked at the ID card web site

 

 

 

so it's a £1,000 fine ... sorry civil penalty ... for not keeping it up to date...

 

Eish, and this is supposed to be voluntary - how many people will sign up to this - thanks for the tip, think I will give it a miss.

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nb Innisfree Veteran II

nb InnisfreeDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted
How would someone consider you to be at risk if you are taking a photograph of - for example - christmas light being turned on?

 

as for getting used to it - I am glad some people don't wish to get used to it and are willing to make themselves heard.

 

All I'm saying is if they just feel like it they have the powers. I am also glad that some people resist, it's just that I can't see things being any different in the (increasingly) overcrowded future civilised world.

 

A sort of inevitability about it, not being defeatist, just realistic :lol:

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