Help with wiring the 12V panels

[dankenning]

Hi,

 

I am fitting out a sailaway that has had a wiring loom already fitted. I am now ready to wire in the panels but first I wanted to check that I am going about this correctly.

 

The wires have all been matched to correctly sized circuit breakers that will protect each wire. I have doubled up a few wires that won't be used at the same time (making sure that either wire will be protected by breaker).

 

I have wired all of the negatives to two bus bars, which will be wired together and to the battery bank negative.

 

I am confident that all of this is correct.

 

The 12V panels I have are made by blue sea. The are modular in groups of 4 breakers. In total there are 5 groups, each with a positive wire that has a label "connect to 12V+". I am planning to connect each of these positive wires to a bus bar. This bus bar will be connected to a battery master switch, which is in turn connected to the battery bank positive.

 

Is this good practise and have I missed anything out?

 

Thanks for your time, Dan.

[Gibbo]

Nothing at all wrong with that.

 

Gibbo

[dankenning]

Thanks Gibbo. Whilst I'm on the subject, what is the best way to wire two wires into a single crimp connection?

 

Should I strip the wires and twist them and then crimp the connection on, or is there something I can buy like a 3 way connection.

[Gibbo]

Thanks Gibbo. Whilst I'm on the subject, what is the best way to wire two wires into a single crimp connection?

 

Should I strip the wires and twist them and then crimp the connection on, or is there something I can buy like a 3 way connection.

 

Stuffing two wires into one connector is better if it's done properly. You can buy piggy back spades but they're crap. If you struggle for space for the two wires just use a crimp for bigger wires. Oh and use the proper crimp tool like this........

 

 

not one of these.....

 

 

Which are shit.

 

Gibbo

[Scotty]

The piggyback connectors allow you to easily separate cabling for fault finding.

(but apparently "they're crap" )

 

 

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-...preinsterms.php

Edited September 20, 2009 by Scotty

[dankenning]

Thanks, yeh I've already invested in a ratchet crimper as, like you said, the other looked shit.

 

Those piggy back connectors look perfect but if you think crimping them directly is the better option, I'll go with that.

[Gibbo]

The piggyback connectors allow you to easily separate cabling for fault finding.

(but apparently "they're crap" )

 

 

They get fatigue fractures at the two 90 degree bends. Sometimes after just pushing a spade on once. I've seen hundreds of them fall apart.

 

Gibbo

[Arnot]

The 12V panels I have are made by blue sea. The are modular in groups of 4 breakers. In total there are 5 groups, each with a positive wire that has a label "connect to 12V+". I am planning to connect each of these positive wires to a bus bar. This bus bar will be connected to a battery master switch, which is in turn connected to the battery bank positive.

 

Is this good practise and have I missed anything out?

Only one slight addition...

 

When you bring the feed through the bulkhead for the busbar for the 12v panels, fit a fuseholder and fuse appropriate for the cable used. Probably just after the battery master switch.

 

Avoid the metal ended glass type fuses, the cartridge type are quite good but my preference is for the Littelfuse Maxi fuse holder with a smear of vaseline on the blade of the fuse. Alternatively if you want more than 60A fusing, use a mega fuse.

 

Regards

 

Arnot

[Guest]

They get fatigue fractures at the two 90 degree bends. Sometimes after just pushing a spade on once. I've seen hundreds of them fall apart.

 

Gibbo

Yup happened on the alternator on the old boat. Ended up sticking two wires in a single larger crimp connector. Was OK afterwards.

Edited September 20, 2009 by Guest

[madcat]

Oh Gibbo solver of all electrical problems,just one small query, Where the hell have I put my ratchet crimper because I cant find it anywhere. Being serious why is it that stuff just vanishes into some kind of parrallel universe accessed via a portal in every garage, workshop,van and especiially boats.The only way to find stuff is to look for something totally different.

[Justme]

The only way to find stuff is to look for something totally different.

 

 

Or buy a new one.

[gazza]

The piggyback connectors allow you to easily separate cabling for fault finding.

(but apparently "they're crap" )

 

 

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-...preinsterms.php

 

 

 

they are indeed crap, especially if used where the connector is subject to any vibration.

 

i was mechanic for my mates at last years weston beach race. they run a VMC KTM 525 fourstroke sidecar. it died on the main straight, they were towed back to the pit area were i set to work on the outfit. fault was found to be one of those crap piggy back crimps on the low tension side of the ignition coil. quick repair and they managed to fit another few laps in.

 

it no longer has any of those type crimps on it - to finish first, first you must finish etc....

 

edited to add....

 

for fault finding (which should be rare...) side cutters and a few new crimps are a better bet

Edited September 20, 2009 by gazza

[mikevye]

not one of these.....

 

 

Which are shit.

 

Gibbo

 

Not like you to mince yer worms Gibbo, tell it like it is!

[Chris Pink]

commoning 3 cables, a perennial problem

 

Hellemann have just started making a series of commoning connectors that are push in. lots of variants, 3, 4, 6 for instance. Called helecon plus.

 

I have embraced them with a passion because they're so easy to use for permanent connections.

 

I haven't any long term use data but certainly better than either the piggy backs or chocolate block, very easy to use and very difficult to pull the wires out without breaking the block. They are also see through for fault finding, have a test point and are....

 

 

...very cheap.

Edited September 21, 2009 by Chris Pink

[paulcatchpole]

commoning 3 cables, a perennial problem

 

Hellemann have just started making a series of commoning connectors that are push in. lots of variants, 3, 4, 6 for instance. Called helecon plus.

 

I have embraced them with a passion because they're so easy to use for permanent connections.

 

I haven't any long term use data but certainly better than either the piggy backs or chocolate block, very easy to use and very difficult to pull the wires out without breaking the block. They are also see through for fault finding, have a test point and are....

 

 

...very cheap.

 

Are they similar to Wago blocks - and if so, how does the price compare?

 

PC

[NB Willawaw]

I believe that the Hellermann Tyton HelaCon series will only accommodate conductors up to 2.5mm2 and they don't like

fine stranded wire.

 

As you say, they are great connectors with many advantages, but IMHO they are more geared towards mains lighting.

[WotEver]

I believe that the Hellermann Tyton HelaCon series will only accommodate conductors up to 2.5mm2 and they don't like

fine stranded wire.

 

Maximum number of strands - 7. They are indeed designed for solid cable up to 2.5mm but can also cope with some of the foreign electrical installation cables that come with up to 7 strands. Manual in pdf form. Totally unsuitable for boat use unfortunately.

 

Tony

[Chris Pink]

Are they similar to Wago blocks - and if so, how does the price compare?

 

PC

 

the 4 ways i bought were just under £6 per 100.

 

they work with tri-rated 1.5mm[sup2[/sup] multi-strand just fine (I couldn't pull them out). And ok, they might not be rated for fine stranded at 240V but given the safety margins of these things i think them an elegant solution to an old problem.

 

Anything larger (or commoning larger and smaller cables for a spur) i use ring terminals on 5 or 6mm set screws through a piece of wood.

[churchward]

Hi,

 

I am fitting out a sailaway that has had a wiring loom already fitted. I am now ready to wire in the panels but first I wanted to check that I am going about this correctly.

 

The wires have all been matched to correctly sized circuit breakers that will protect each wire. I have doubled up a few wires that won't be used at the same time (making sure that either wire will be protected by breaker).

 

I have wired all of the negatives to two bus bars, which will be wired together and to the battery bank negative.

 

I am confident that all of this is correct.

 

The 12V panels I have are made by blue sea. The are modular in groups of 4 breakers. In total there are 5 groups, each with a positive wire that has a label "connect to 12V+". I am planning to connect each of these positive wires to a bus bar. This bus bar will be connected to a battery master switch, which is in turn connected to the battery bank positive.

 

Is this good practise and have I missed anything out?

 

Thanks for your time, Dan.

I am no particular electrickery expert and if Gibbo is happy with it then it must be OK. However, I was told when my boat was being surveyed that I should fit a mega fuse between the battery isolation switch and the positive Bus bar.

[Chris Pink]

I am no particular electrickery expert and if Gibbo is happy with it then it must be OK. However, I was told when my boat was being surveyed that I should fit a mega fuse between the battery isolation switch and the positive Bus bar.

 

That is good practice but, interestingly, it is not a requirement of the BSS.

 

Simply that any circuit fed by the main switch should be fused.

[WotEver]

Interestingly, in post #8 Arnot also suggested a fuse between the isolator switch and main busbar. I suppose it could be argued that if you're going to fit a main fuse it should be before the isolator rather than after it but I can fully understand why it's not a BSS requirement to have one.

 

Tony

[Gibbo]

The BSS is a bit odd here.

 

To follow good engineering practice would mean a fuse in the main battery lead, as close electrically to the batteries as possible but not in the actual battery compartment. Then on to the isolator switch, then on to the panel.

 

However the BSS insists that all circuits are protected by a (suitable) fuse or pass through the isolator switch. Rather odd, but that's what it says.

 

This means that the main battery fuse doesn't actually have to be there. Though it is certainly safer to have one.

 

Gibbo

[Gary Peacock]

The BSS is a bit odd here.

 

To follow good engineering practice would mean a fuse in the main battery lead, as close electrically to the batteries as possible but not in the actual battery compartment. Then on to the isolator switch, then on to the panel.

 

However the BSS insists that all circuits are protected by a (suitable) fuse or pass through the isolator switch. Rather odd, but that's what it says.

 

This means that the main battery fuse doesn't actually have to be there. Though it is certainly safer to have one.

 

Gibbo

 

In all honesty I get the feeling that anything more than the most basic electrical installation is often way beyond the capabilities of most BSS examiners, when the tick sheet doesn't fit what they are looking at they seem to go into melt down!

[Arnot]

Interestingly, in post #8 Arnot also suggested a fuse between the isolator switch and main busbar. I suppose it could be argued that if you're going to fit a main fuse it should be before the isolator rather than after it but I can fully understand why it's not a BSS requirement to have one.

 

Tony

As gibbo says, the BSS is a bit odd here but then it's a bit odd on all sorts of thing in the electrical section. And that's where it acknowledges that guidance is appropriate at all!

 

I do have some sympathy however, I have been involved in compiling standards and regulations a few times and there are so many ways to do any electrical job safely or unsafely, reliably or unreliably, logically or illogically that the task is well nigh impossible. If you need a cure for insomnia try BS7671!

 

When wiring the ELV DC circuits of boats I am guided by accepted best practice in the automotive field which is;

 

That any cable coming fromm a battery should be fused to the level appropriate for the thinnest wire it feeds before any subsequent overcurrent protection

 

within 450mm cable length from the positive battery terminal

 

or if closer

 

before the cable passes through a metal bulkhead.

 

But that's just my take and not backed up by any guidance from any electrical safety or regualatory authority, it just seems a simple and pragmatic approach.

 

As well as this, in practice it can be necessary to bend stipulation 1 to keep the fuse located in a way that avoids inappropriate environmental issues such as hangin in mid air or inside a battery container.

 

Hope this helps

 

Regards

 

Arnot

 

In all honesty I get the feeling that anything more than the most basic electrical installation is often way beyond the capabilities of most BSS examiners, when the tick sheet doesn't fit what they are looking at they seem to go into melt down!

Here Here! But then they are expected to work for peanuts.

 

 

Regards

 

Arnot

Edited September 21, 2009 by Arnot

[Giggetty]

I have a moulded intrument panel multiway plug, one conductor of which has broken off short at the insertion into the spade. Does anyone know how to repair this? A new loom would cost £170.