Trad or Semi-Trad?

[DavidUK]

Probably a daft question, but does a Trad stern boat offer more internal room, or is this merely negated by the engine being 'inside' the boat as opposed to under the stern?

 

Also, can you get Trad stern boats with a 'reserve layout' or do all, by defination, have a boatman's cabin,followed by engine room etc?

 

Maximum space is important to me when I come to purchase my first narrowboat, which will also be my home.

 

Any thoughts on the pros and cons of both stern types would be appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

David

[Canalwatcher]

Probably a daft question, but does a Trad stern boat offer more internal room, or is this merely negated by the engine being 'inside' the boat as opposed to under the stern?

 

Also, can you get Trad stern boats with a 'reserve layout' or do all, by defination, have a boatman's cabin,followed by engine room etc?

 

Maximum space is important to me when I come to purchase my first narrowboat, which will also be my home.

 

Any thoughts on the pros and cons of both stern types would be appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

David

 

"

Edited September 13, 2009 by zodiak

[casper ghost]

Hi. My boat is a trad style but does not have a boatman's cabin. It has a 5 foot engine room at the rear with a fixed bulhead seperating this from the cabin. It offers a good space to store all the stuff you wouldn't want in the living area, like diesel tubs, the BBQ, spare toilet casset, generator, tool box etc. The engine room could be even smaller if the engine is fitted direct to prop shaft as mine is slightly forward.

[Chertsey]

Yes, it does offer more internal space, even if some of this is engine room. It is still useful secure, dry storage whereas with the semi trad you just have insecure outdoor space.

[Nine of Hearts]

Yes, it does offer more internal space, even if some of this is engine room. It is still useful secure, dry storage whereas with the semi trad you just have insecure outdoor space.

 

This is true, I am forever having to reassure the arse end of my boat that I still think it's lovely.

[david and julie]

whereas with the semi trad you just have insecure outdoor space.

It is a relatively secure and sociable area for people and pets though. I can see the advantage of a trad for a liveaboard who either stays put much of the time or cruises alone, but if you want to take people out they're not as sociable.

 

I also find trads with the engine near the back doors to sometimes be a bit awkward to get in and out of - the ones with older engines further forward seem much easier.

 

I like the indoor dry/secure area for tools etc trads give, that said, I've got a semi-trad and like cruisers, you can store all sorts under the deckboards.

 

If I ever had a trad I think I'd look at the wide hatch versions and would also prefer to have a longer bow deck as I think some outside space is also important.

[nb Innisfree]

We have a cruiser stern with 'wings' al la semitrad but with a pramhood, dry semi outdoor area for non valuable things but plenty of safe sociable space for cruising + engine and stern gland is behind bulkhead, no flooding risk and engine smells are isolated

Edited September 13, 2009 by nb Innisfree

[WJM]

Sweeping generalisation - Trads are for liveaboards, Semis and Cruisers are for part time boaters!

[alan_fincher]

Sweeping generalisation - Trads are for liveaboards, Semis and Cruisers are for part time boaters!

Yes, it certainly is!

 

You need to visit our marina - I can see no correlation there between "stern type" and "boater type" however I try and make the association.

 

Alan

("Trad" and certainly not live-aboard!).

[NB Alnwick]

The best description with an analysis of the pros and cons that I have seen is here:

 

http://www.rugbyboats.co.uk/styles.php

 

I don't necessarily agree with all that Dominic says here but he has far more experience than I so I am content to defer.

 

 

Sweeping generalisation - Trads are for liveaboards, Semis and Cruisers are for part time boaters!

 

Perhaps it might be better to describe trads as being for serious (or even determined, extreme or manic) boaters rather than liveaboards

[alan_fincher]

The best description with an analysis of the pros and cons that I have seen is here:

 

http://www.rugbyboats.co.uk/styles.php

 

I don't necessarily agree with all that Dominic says here but he has far more experience than I so I am content to defer.

Yes, generally a good synopsis from Dominic.

 

The only one I would contest strongly is that an engine in a "modern trad", (i.e. in the cabin, but at the back, not forward of a boatman's cabin), has to be harder to work on.

 

Ours isn't particularly convenient if you have to work on the less accessible side, but still beats many cruisers and semi-trads I have seen hands down, as these all involve climbing in from the top in some way, often with much of the deck not being removable.

 

A well designed 'trad' one where the necessary surrounding structures can be easily removed, allows access from tops and side(s), and you can work on the damned thing in the dry.

 

Other than that, his descriptions are good, IMO.

[Lady Muck]

I agree - a trad is better for liveaboard - not only the extra space but the steerer can stand in the doors to keep warm when cruising in winter.

 

We've a semi trad, but my next big purchase will be one of those ugly pram hoods - water gets into the engine hole and is damaging the hexagrip decks. It could be a useful space for wet things in foul weather. I don't think I'll boat with it 'up' though.

 

Because I can chain the dog safely within the confines of this deck and because we often boat with lots of friends, we're going to stick with this style of stern.

[bargemast]

"

 

 

I don't think that David needs more information after reading your answer zodiak.

 

 

 

From my point of view it's a very personal choice as both have their good and not as good solutions for the use of the available space.

 

Visit as many boats as you can, take you time studying, and only than make your decision.

 

Peter.

[Chagall]

I agree - a trad is better for liveaboard - not only the extra space but the steerer can stand in the doors to keep warm when cruising in winter.

 

Would an extra wide hatch on a modern trad mean more space for at least one companion to occasionally stand with the steerer? and presumably more space for a novice steerer to dance around at least until confidently able to stand still?!

 

Ive often seen folk sat on the roof near a trad hatch so as to keep a steerer company but I guess this must alter the trim quite considerably, would it be difficult to steer if so?

 

Thanks for your patience with these questions.

[Chertsey]

I know it's moving away from the OP which was one simple question, but while I can see how trad and cruiser stern set-ups cater for different needs/preferences, I cannot for the life of me see any advantage in the 'halfway house' which is the semi-trad. It's neither one thing nor t'other and has many of the disadvantages of both. Just what is the attraction, please?

Edited September 14, 2009 by WarriorWoman

[Liam]

One of the advantages is that it is good for those with either kids, or dogs who can have them "outside" but also in an enclosed space.

[Strads]

Tanis...

 

Space and size of the hatch is one thing but many "trads" have the controls in the space - eg two speed wheels, or one wheel and a gear lever either mounted ahead or on one side.

 

In such boats having "2" people in the hatch compromises your ability to reach/mange the controls easily... so not the place to teach a novice...

best let them "have ago by standing in the right place and you be on hand to advise/support as required from one side..

 

 

On certain stretch's I sit on the roof of the boat mans cabin with fee dangling in the hatch.. but not when I may need to make a major change of direction as the tiller will immediatley go out of reach... or reaching the controls is a struggle ... so useful for resting the ankles for 10 minutes but not good for full control..

when its "busy"

[Naughty Cal]

One of the advantages is that it is good for those with either kids, or dogs who can have them "outside" but also in an enclosed space.

 

She asked for advantages

[Chagall]

Tanis...

 

Space and size of the hatch is one thing but many "trads" have the controls in the space - eg two speed wheels, or one wheel and a gear lever either mounted ahead or on one side.

 

In such boats having "2" people in the hatch compromises your ability to reach/mange the controls easily... so not the place to teach a novice...

best let them "have ago by standing in the right place and you be on hand to advise/support as required from one side..

 

 

On certain stretch's I sit on the roof of the boat mans cabin with fee dangling in the hatch.. but not when I may need to make a major change of direction as the tiller will immediatley go out of reach... or reaching the controls is a struggle ... so useful for resting the ankles for 10 minutes but not good for full control..

when its "busy"

 

Thanks for the reply, I suppose I was meaning a wider hatch might give space for somebody to stand whilst Im steering, mainly for when friends visit and want a trip out. (most times I will be single handed anyway) I can see they may be in the way of controls on one side but perhaps a larger hatch means they can stand to the right and inside instead of dangerously on the back deck and behind the tiller swing? ( a big No No according to the helmsmans course tutor)

 

Its me that is the novice and I was also thinking a wider hatch would give me room to 'dance' about till Im confident. The narrow top step of a trad worries me just a bit.

 

Thanks for the reply, I suppose I was meaning a wider hatch might give space for somebody to stand whilst Im steering, mainly for when friends visit and want a trip out. (most times I will be single handed anyway) I can see they may be in the way of controls on one side but perhaps a larger hatch means they can stand to the right and inside instead of dangerously on the back deck and behind the tiller swing? ( a big No No according to the helmsmans course tutor)

 

Its me that is the novice and I was also thinking a wider hatch would give me room to 'dance' about till Im confident. The narrow top step of a trad worries me just a bit.

as for sitting on the top, I mean if the guest sits there whilst Im steering will it make steering more difficult? Im quite happy standing whilst steering.

 

 

with apologies to the OP but I guess he may find this information helpful too.....in the quest to find out if trad or semi trad is best....

Edited September 14, 2009 by Tanis

[Nine of Hearts]

One of the advantages is that it is good for those with either kids, or dogs who can have them "outside" but also in an enclosed space.

 

This was my intention, but in reality they prefer to perch on the fore-part of the cabin roof (when they're running up and down the length of the roof), which is probably even less safe than larking about on a cruiser stern. But, I have got some nice storage lockers, and can have my nicholson's open on the seat in front of me without it blowing away, which I wouldn't get with a straight cruiser. I like my abomination.

[Chertsey]

One of the advantages is that it is good for those with either kids, or dogs who can have them "outside" but also in an enclosed space.

At the back, getting under the steerer's feet? Surely a well deck at the front is better for kids 'n' dogs?

[alan_fincher]

The narrow top step of a trad worries me just a bit.

A rear engined "trad", (as opposed to real "trad" with boatman's cabin, does not need to have a narrow step in the hatchway if you do not wish it.

 

It can be as big as you like, but you to some extent balance safety whilst "working" there against difficulty of going in and out.

 

When we refitted our engine room, I elected to stay with the original way it was done. Basically the step/floor in the hatchway is at about the same height as the rear deck, but just continues right forward over the whole engine, (the front part swinging up for access).

 

It is a little harder to get in and out the back, (basically you go along the side, then up, standing on part of the swim beside it), but not really a lot more so,

 

Some may consider that less height on top of the engine to pile sky high with junk is a drawback, but believe me, if you need quick access, you'll be grateful!

 

It wouldn't have occurred to me to do it as it is, if fitting the boat from scratch, but I'd not change it now. It means any area vertically below the hatch has a solid floor at deck height, so you ain't going to fall anywhere, even on wet days.

 

It also means the engine has a far bigger space, so is less likely to suffer from any problems of "not enough air" that a smaller space can cause.

[Chagall]

A rear engined "trad", (as opposed to real "trad" with boatman's cabin, does not need to have a narrow step in the hatchway if you do not wish it.

 

It can be as big as you like, but you to some extent balance safety whilst "working" there against difficulty of going in and out.

 

When we refitted our engine room, I elected to stay with the original way it was done. Basically the step/floor in the hatchway is at about the same height as the rear deck, but just continues right forward over the whole engine, (the front part swinging up for access).

 

It is a little harder to get in and out the back, (basically you go along the side, then up, standing on part of the swim beside it), but not really a lot more so,

 

Some may consider that less height on top of the engine to pile sky high with junk is a drawback, but believe me, if you need quick access, you'll be grateful!

 

It wouldn't have occurred to me to do it as it is, if fitting the boat from scratch, but I'd not change it now. It means any area vertically below the hatch has a solid floor at deck height, so you ain't going to fall anywhere, even on wet days.

 

It also means the engine has a far bigger space, so is less likely to suffer from any problems of "not enough air" that a smaller space can cause.

 

sounds good...thanks, duly noted and added to my list for the builder...poor guy, it is now a capital LIST!

[deletedaccount]

Some crusiers (like mine) have semi-trad like seats as well as a bigger, open stern. Which is pretty handy for plonking your kids on when going through locks imo.

[WJM]

To flesh out my earlier sweeping generalisation; If you spend a lot of time on your boat traveling with other people then a cruiser or semi-trad is perfect. You have room for four or more people on the back. Conversely, if you rarely travel, or travel alone then a Trad is perfect.