Honda suitcase generators or a 12v portable power pack...?

[larrysanders]

EU10i or EU20i... I'm thinking of buying one or the other and wondered if anyone had any advice.

 

We use our boat at weekends and have three leisure batteries in a bank and these power the fridge, waterheater and bilge etc. They're on charge from mains all week and just last the weekend. Using a TV for a long periods pushes them too far and running the outboard doesn't top them up enough. There's no room to add any more batteries in our locker.

 

So would either of these generators trickle charge the batteries enough or is it best to use them direct to the tv etc? Or does anyone use a 12v portable power pack like the ones you buy in Halfords?

 

Many thanks!

[Proper Job]

The size of gennie you need would depend on the charger.

 

For example, I charge my batteries with an EU20i via a 40amp Sterling charger. However, I believe that the EU10i would also meet the same load.

 

What is the charger?

[Tony Brooks]

EU10i or EU20i... I'm thinking of buying one or the other and wondered if anyone had any advice.

 

We use our boat at weekends and have three leisure batteries in a bank and these power the fridge, waterheater and bilge etc. They're on charge from mains all week and just last the weekend. Using a TV for a long periods pushes them too far and running the outboard doesn't top them up enough. There's no room to add any more batteries in our locker.

 

So would either of these generators trickle charge the batteries enough or is it best to use them direct to the tv etc? Or does anyone use a 12v portable power pack like the ones you buy in Halfords?

 

Many thanks!

 

 

If you are intent on using the 12V output please do not. It appears to be unregulated and I doubt you will get much more than an average of 6 or 7 amps from it (I can not find the graphs at present).

 

I am sure the generator plus mains charger is the way to go.

[larrysanders]

If you are intent on using the 12V output please do not. It appears to be unregulated and I doubt you will get much more than an average of 6 or 7 amps from it (I can not find the graphs at present).

 

I am sure the generator plus mains charger is the way to go.

 

 

Hi Tony, do you mean charge the batteries from the mains as I'm doing at present and then use the gennie as a power source to run the TV direct etc while I'm on the move?

[Tony Brooks]

Hi Tony, do you mean charge the batteries from the mains as I'm doing at present and then use the gennie as a power source to run the TV direct etc while I'm on the move?

 

I am not sure about use the generator powering the "mains" battery charger whilst you are underway because depending upon the regulated voltage of the charger and alternator you might end up with the charger being confused by the alternator output voltage. It should not harm anything but its something I would not do.

 

If you mean running the generator when you have tied up and using to power the "mains" charger, assuming the generator has enough output, then that is exactly what I mean. If your TV is designed for use in a running vehicle or if you power it through a voltage stabiliser then I can see no reason not to run the generator, powering the charger when the TV is on - except BW say it has to be shut down at 20.00.

[larrysanders]

My battery charger is a Power Master Systems Ltd model. I've looked on the net and the company has ceased trading. It's wall mounted pretty thin in design and a 2006 model. Nowhere on it is a model number or voltage input? From the instructions it could be one of three PM-1212, PM-2512, PM5012 as the same instructions seem to be for all three.

 

It's attached to 3 x 110 batteries - and this is purpose made from new. Would anyone know (assume) if I'd be ok charging when I'm away from the marina attaching a Honda EU1000 suitcase generator? Would it be worth my while or should i just use candles and read a book instead!?!

[WotEver]

Would anyone know (assume) if I'd be ok charging when I'm away from the marina attaching a Honda EU1000 suitcase generator?

 

If the Honda has sufficient power for the charger then no problem. If either the Honda or the charger complain then I'd say it's safe to assume that the Honda has insufficient power for that charger.

 

Does the manual for the charger state what power it draws (something like INPUT: 230vAC 2500W)?

 

T.

[larrysanders]

If the Honda has sufficient power for the charger then no problem. If either the Honda or the charger complain then I'd say it's safe to assume that the Honda has insufficient power for that charger.

 

Does the manual for the charger state what power it draws (something like INPUT: 230vAC 2500W)?

 

T.

 

 

In addition to alot of other stuff the manual says input 110Vac or 230Vac +/- 10%

 

Don't mean to sound stupid but this means nothing to me... does that mean a 1000w generator will cope charging?

 

I just don't want to fork out on the gennie if its not going to do the job.

 

Thanks!

Edited August 25, 2009 by larrysanders

[WotEver]

Insufficient info - we already know it wants 230V, but we need to know how much power it draws.

 

It must say either a figure for watts (like 1500W) or amps (like 4.5A) somewhere.

 

T

[larrysanders]

Insufficient info - we already know it wants 230V, but we need to know how much power it draws.

 

It must say either a figure for watts (like 1500W) or amps (like 4.5A) somewhere.

 

T

 

the model i think i've got...

 

says 12v intelligent 3 state battery charger (12 amp 12v)

equalizer charge 14.6vdc

floating charge 13.7vdc

 

maximum current consumption of consumers when used as a mains unit max 12 amperes

[WotEver]

Sadly for this conversation all of those figures are output figures. We still don't know how much current it will draw from the mains (ie generator).

 

You'd probably be okay, but I do understand that you don't want to hear 'probably'.

[Byeckerslike]

We have a Kawasaki GA1400-A generator, which can produce 1,200Watts, and it happily powers a 40A Synchrocharge battery charger.

[pirate paul]

the model i think i've got...

 

says 12v intelligent 3 state battery charger (12 amp 12v)

equalizer charge 14.6vdc

floating charge 13.7vdc

 

maximum current consumption of consumers when used as a mains unit max 12 amperes

We know from ohms law that volts x amps = watts..................12V x 12A = 144W this is the out put of the charger .... if we assume it is efficent (naf spellin cant get that one) call it 160W input power....as ;ong as your geni is more than say 200W no probs the smallest geni I know of is 650W.

 

When I say no prob, the quality of the geni makes a difference, because you have a new fangled sensitive charger, ask in the shop will the geni run this charger, if it blows up your charger it is their fault.

As long as you are running less than 140W ie the numbers on the telly and light bulbs etc the batteries are still charging when running the telly.

[pistnbroke]

As your charger is 144w output I would allow a worst case that its 50 % efficeient and allow 300w ... The 230 +- 10 % means 207v to253v which is wide enough for a generator .... If your TV is also 240 v then run it direct from the generator.(.most TVs are 110-240 these days so they can be imported to different countries without modification) running the TV on the generator you have your batteries on charge at 4A each and the TV working

 

The small GMC 650 /750/950 generators at 50 quid are sold here by the million and every camper has one ..easy to start but 2 stroke ,quiet

 

I also calculated that your charger would take 1.6 days to fully recharge your 330 AH

Edited August 26, 2009 by pistnbroke

[blackrose]

As your charger is 144w output I would allow a worst case that its 50 % efficeient and allow 300w ... The 230 +- 10 % means 207v to253v which is wide enough for a generator .... If your TV is also 240 v then run it direct from the generator.(.most TVs are 110-240 these days so they can be imported to different countries without modification) running the TV on the generator you have your batteries on charge at 4A each and the TV working

 

The small GMC 650 /750/950 generators at 50 quid are sold here by the million and every camper has one ..easy to start but 2 stroke ,quiet

I've never heard a quiet 2 stroke generator?

[pistnbroke]

I turn off my hearing aid to save leccy .....ha ha

[larrysanders]

As your charger is 144w output I would allow a worst case that its 50 % efficeient and allow 300w ... The 230 +- 10 % means 207v to253v which is wide enough for a generator .... If your TV is also 240 v then run it direct from the generator.(.most TVs are 110-240 these days so they can be imported to different countries without modification) running the TV on the generator you have your batteries on charge at 4A each and the TV working

 

The small GMC 650 /750/950 generators at 50 quid are sold here by the million and every camper has one ..easy to start but 2 stroke ,quiet

 

I also calculated that your charger would take 1.6 days to fully recharge your 330 AH

 

 

thanks for this...! any idea how much charge it would give the batteries just running the outboard on tick over? a lot less than a gennie?

[WotEver]

We know from ohms law that volts x amps = watts..................12V x 12A = 144W this is the out put of the charger .... if we assume it is efficent (naf spellin cant get that one) call it 160W input power....as ;ong as your geni is more than say 200W no probs the smallest geni I know of is 650W.

 

Sadly, Ohm's law doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the question.

 

As your charger is 144w output I would allow a worst case that its 50 % efficeient and allow 300w ...

 

Yet another blind application of Ohm's law. Yes, it's a very simple law and easy to use but that doesn't mean it's applicable in this case.

 

We're talking about a battery charger with unknown innards. To save me re-writing what's already been very well explained, let me directly quote Gibbo from a week ago in another thread:

 

"It all depends upon the type of charger and whether it is what is known as "power factor corrected".

 

1. If it's a modern power factor corrected charger then a 1KVA generator would eat it for dinner for power to spare.

 

2. If it's a triac controlled charger with a big transformer then it could need a generator as big as 4KVA to power it properly."

 

Now this charger isn't very old (I think OP said a couple of years), and it's not very big, so it's most probably a nice modern power factor corrected charger that would be happy fed off a piece of wet string. That is why I wrote a few posts back "You'd probably be okay". However I'd not be prepared to categorically state that "It will only want about 300W so it'll be fine" because if it wasn't, then OP would blame me for having just purchased a generator that's unsuitable for his purpose.

 

Yes, Larry, you'd probably be okay with even a very small generator, but there's also an outside chance that you won't be. If the latter case then you'd also be looking for a new charger. The balance of probabilities is that you'd be fine.

 

Regards,

Tony

 

any idea how much charge it would give the batteries just running the outboard on tick over?

 

On tickover probably less than you'd be taking out of the batteries if you had anything switched on. At normal running speeds somewhere in the region of 30 hours, depending on the output of your outboard (I'm assuming 80W maximum).

 

T.

 

We have a Kawasaki GA1400-A generator, which can produce 1,200Watts, and it happily powers a 40A Synchrocharge battery charger.

 

Indeed, but OP has a Power Master Systems charger and we don't know anything about it.

[pirate paul]

As your charger is 144w output I would allow a worst case that its 50 % efficeient and allow 300w ... The 230 +- 10 % means 207v to253v which is wide enough for a generator .... If your TV is also 240 v then run it direct from the generator.(.most TVs are 110-240 these days so they can be imported to different countries without modification) running the TV on the generator you have your batteries on charge at 4A each and the TV working

 

The small GMC 650 /750/950 generators at 50 quid are sold here by the million and every camper has one ..easy to start but 2 stroke ,quiet

 

I also calculated that your charger would take 1.6 days to fully recharge your 330 AH

 

 

Yep, I think if you need 300W the firm who made the charger should be struck off....still better safe than sorry.

 

The rate of charge, the current, measured in amps from the outboard is dependent on how much charge is in the batteries and how much power you are using, if you rev the engine till it is screaming it will take a long time to charge your batteries.

 

If you are getting 230VAC from an inverter ie 230V from your batteries, you will lose some effiency in to the inverter ....there for... your output from your inverter will be less may be 10% so the power you can use and sill be charging is 14W - 14.4W = 130W ish. so you can use up to 129W ie telly aprox 50w+light bulb 60W =110W. etc.

[WotEver]

if you need 300W the firm who made the charger should be struck off....

 

OP has already stated that the manufacturer has gone out of business.

 

T.

[WotEver]

Okay, a bit of web searching shows that this (Taiwanese) unit would appear to be a clone of many others of similar type (such as the LanPower) and is indeed PFC and therefore will draw very little current when operating. 300W should be ample, even for start-up.

 

Tony

[Sir Nibble]

Just for the record, and to get my scouting pedants badge.

VxI does indeed = power, (watts), but this has nothing to do with Ohm's law.

Ohm's law states simply that the current flowing in a circuit is directly proportional to the voltage applied and inversely proportional to the resistance offered, he had nothing to say about power.

Pedant mode off.

[WotEver]

Ohm's law states simply that the current flowing in a circuit is directly proportional to the voltage applied and inversely proportional to the resistance offered, he had nothing to say about power.

 

Old George Ohm never had a power complex then?

 

Coat... door....

[pirate paul]

OP has already stated that the manufacturer has gone out of business.

 

T.

 

The ozone is safe !

[Speedwheel]

What about one of these to charge the batteries?

 

http://www.boab.biz/Pages/Remote%20Area%20...y%20Charger.htm