gas cookers for boats why so pricey?

[Soulgirl]

Advice is one thing, patronising me is totally another. You're making it sound as though I'm some fool buying a boat as some kind of fashion statement.

 

I will not have a floating cottage; I will have a robust fully working boat that I will enjoy cruising on. Being that I'm not old, and still need employment, means that I will be moored up for the most part so that I can work and so that my Daughter can attend school for her gcse's.

 

My boat will be practical but it will also be stylish. I'll pass on the invitation though... I'll start my enviable lifestyle in the company of non-derogatory commentators

[NBMike]

It always amazes me that you can build what you want in a vehicle without any checks. I know someone who had a solid fuel stove in the back of his lorry. No BSS for them. I've cooked dinner driving down a motorway.

Sue

It used to be a vehicle. When I used it it was a store/office/workshop and didn't move anywhere.

Mike

[Ange]

Going back to the price of stuff for boats - it has astonished me how expensive things are if they're suitable for boats. When I was first married white goods were expensive, but the prices have dropped to ridiculous levels - until you want it suitable for a boat. Me no understand

[david and julie]

Being that I'm not old, and still need employment,

 

Nothing to do with age, works a money thing.

 

You've just been offered help and sensible advice from a very experienced, albeit simple living boater, who has probably forgotten more than you will ever know, then thrown it back in her face, because you think you can do things differently.

 

We've heard it all before and you have a lot to learn, a good start would be listening to those that know what they're talking about.

Edited July 26, 2009 by david and julie

[Smelly]

With an assumption that the fan can be run when on on-board power, or that Soulgirl is quite happy not to use the oven when not shore-line, then it is fit for HER purpose.

 

Have we any real idea how much that fan will actually use?

 

We can survive for 3 or 4 days on the boat without running the engine if we switch the fridge off and more probably if I coud live without Today & the Archers. OTH we can survive at least 4 months without changing a gas bottle so it is most definitely horses for courses. Sour milk is no prob for me but speak to the pink stripy cat and that's a very different story!

 

As it happens we choose to run 2 lappys so our power consumption is higher than it might be, and then you should see the stereo but that's saved for speshul occasions these days as it's greedy.

 

Methinks Soulgirl, in all her eager abandon, shouldn't be chastized until we know such facts as whether she's actually talking about using more than the lappy we're currently typing on (and I'm on the big greedy one at the mo'). More to the point a certain amount of encouragement for someone who is about to jump headlong into the cut (with decent taste in choons), who hopefully will be out cruising and in no short time putting something back in might be merited, no matter how much power she might choose to use.

 

However, be ye careful oh Soulful One or you'll end up posting about knackered batteries for years to come and find yourself embattled in even more terse convos than this one!

 

As an aside, we bought a cooker from Midland and it needs (?) 240 for the igniters...

[Chris J W]

Nothing to do with age, works a money thing.

 

You've just been offered help and sensible advice from a very experienced, albeit simple living boater, who has probably forgotten more than you will ever know, then thrown it back in her face, because you think you can do things differently.

 

We've heard it all before and you have a lot to learn, a good start would be listening to those that know what they're talking about.

 

And a good teacher knows not to insult the student from the very start.

 

Different people have different requirements - and NONE of them are WRONG, just different.

 

In this case in particular we don't even really know sufficient information about this damn oven to even make an educated guess. How much power does the fan use? Is it a mains supply that's then transformed to 12V? Does the oven even have to have the fan to work safely? We're all just guessing at the moment.

[Radiomariner]

Alan, I'll be hooked up to the mains so all is well Mind you, if I didn't connect the electric and do without the fan, that's an option too?

I like you Soulgirl, and do not wish to offend. However if an oven is designed to have a fan, I would be wary of using it without the fan. Check with the supplier or manufacturer.

Regards

 

Edited to add:- Not a big problem, I am sure that oven fans, (and ignition systems) can be powered from inexpensive inverters as advised by other posters.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Radiomariner

[wonderdust]

We have a New World cooker and although it is not a fan assited oven it does have a fan. When i asked if the cooker could be run without the fan i was advised not to by the manufacturer as the fan is there to cool the control knobs when the grill was used as there had been cases of the control knobs melting when the fan was not used! Probably a cost cutting method, cheaper grade plastic!

We have it connected to a small cheap inverter when out and about, it runs when the grill door is opened and stays on for about 15mins after the grill has been finished with and the door is closed.

[ChrisPy]

I was always under the impression that the fan is there just to make the distribution of heat more even and instant, i.e. nice to have but not essential.

[alan_fincher]

We have a New World cooker and although it is not a fan assited oven it does have a fan. When i asked if the cooker could be run without the fan i was advised not to by the manufacturer as the fan is there to cool the control knobs when the grill was used as there had been cases of the control knobs melting when the fan was not used! Probably a cost cutting method, cheaper grade plastic!

We have it connected to a small cheap inverter when out and about, it runs when the grill door is opened and stays on for about 15mins after the grill has been finished with and the door is closed.

That's a very sensible answer, and sounds right to me.

 

I assumed throughout we were talking not about a fan oven as such, but one which needed a 240 volt connection to run a fan for the reasons Wonderdust states.

 

I agree with other posters that the 240 volt need could be met by a relatively modest inverter, whilst cruising. I'm sure it would be unwise to run such an appliance without the fan connected.

 

However, personally, I hate to build in these types of dependencies, when it can so easily be avoided by a different choice of equipment.

 

Inverters do go wrong quite regularly, (look at how many "broken inverter" posts appear on here), but gas supplies don't break (other than by bottles running out).

 

I can easily survive with no inverter, but not with no cooker.

 

But then lots of people have boats where the 240 volts is an essential part of life, and many things will not work if it fails. Nothing wrong with that, but it's worth bearing in mind that a "keep it simple" approach is more likely to keep essential services 100% reliable.

 

 

I was always under the impression that the fan is there just to make the distribution of heat more even and instant, i.e. nice to have but not essential.

No, not if for keeping electrics and controls cool.

 

They tend to start around the time you have finished cooking, in fact, or at least on the stove we have at home.

[Soulgirl]

Nothing to do with age, works a money thing.

 

You've just been offered help and sensible advice from a very experienced, albeit simple living boater, who has probably forgotten more than you will ever know, then thrown it back in her face, because you think you can do things differently.

 

We've heard it all before and you have a lot to learn, a good start would be listening to those that know what they're talking about.

 

It wasn't help and advice; it was rudeness. I'm more than open to advice and help because like you say, I'm a noob. However, things 'can' be done differently. If they couldn't we'd still be pulling carts on wheels

 

It's unfair to criticise me regarding my 'want' list and what I'll actually end up with. I'm not a gas installer or an electrician so when the time comes I'll take advice from 'professionals' in that department as I will with plumbing and engine maintenance.

 

I know more about computers than most have forgotten but I wouldn't dream of belittling them because they were asking daft questions. Everyone has to learn something new at some point.

 

Thank you to those that have come to my defence

 

Have we any real idea how much that fan will actually use?

 

We can survive for 3 or 4 days on the boat without running the engine if we switch the fridge off and more probably if I coud live without Today & the Archers. OTH we can survive at least 4 months without changing a gas bottle so it is most definitely horses for courses. Sour milk is no prob for me but speak to the pink stripy cat and that's a very different story!

 

As it happens we choose to run 2 lappys so our power consumption is higher than it might be, and then you should see the stereo but that's saved for speshul occasions these days as it's greedy.

 

Methinks Soulgirl, in all her eager abandon, shouldn't be chastized until we know such facts as whether she's actually talking about using more than the lappy we're currently typing on (and I'm on the big greedy one at the mo'). More to the point a certain amount of encouragement for someone who is about to jump headlong into the cut (with decent taste in choons), who hopefully will be out cruising and in no short time putting something back in might be merited, no matter how much power she might choose to use.

 

However, be ye careful oh Soulful One or you'll end up posting about knackered batteries for years to come and find yourself embattled in even more terse convos than this one!

 

As an aside, we bought a cooker from Midland and it needs (?) 240 for the igniters...

 

I'll be running my staid custom box with a tri-monitor set up My Son's already looking into various powerpacks and electrical set-ups so I'll be well sorted... I'll bear your comments in mind regarding the knackered batteries though, it was the first thing that seriously warranted thought

[Chris Pink]

Advice is one thing, patronising me is totally another. You're making it sound as though I'm some fool buying a boat as some kind of fashion statement.

 

Well you're coming across as someone who asks people with decades of collective experience and then stating that you will ignore that opinion because it doesn't fit with your sense of style.

 

Even the people who think you should be encouraged to make you own mistakes and try the hard have some very sensible reservations about what you're doing, To take a bit of kit you have no idea of how it works and then say I will use it like this, contrary to the manufacturers instructions and most common sense.... daft.

 

Well, anyway, your choice, good luck. Some people have to learn the hard way. Seems quite an expensive hard way to me.

 

Most sensible advice about moving on to a boat (or any other significant lifestyle change) says don't jump in and change things until you are used to all the vagaries of that lifestyle.

 

how does go?

 

fools jump in where angels fear to tread.

 

and if you think people like Alan and Sue live in smoke filled peasant hovels eating raw rabbit on a skewer you could not be more wrong.

 

It is you who are patronising them.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Chris Pink

[dor]

Just a comment on 230V dependence: I've come across hobs where the FFDs don't work if the 230V isn't present, which prevents the burners being lit with a match. So, no 230V no hob. Doesn't mean it applies to all of them.

[ChrisPy]

.... some kind of fashion statement.

nobody mentioned your avatar ...............

[alan_fincher]

Removed:

 

Some how I managed to resubmit a 2 hour old posting.

Edited July 27, 2009 by alan_fincher

[nb Innisfree]

Well you're coming across as someone who asks people with decades of collective opinion and then stating that you will ignore that opinion because it doesn't fit with your sense of style.

 

Even the people who think you should be encouraged to make you own mistakes and try the hard have some very sensible reservations about what you're doing, To take a bit of kit you have no idea of how it works and then say I will use it like this, contrary to the manufacturers instructions and most common sense.... daft.

 

Well, anyway, your choice, good luck. Some people have to learn the hard way. Seems quite an expensive hard way to me.

 

Most sensible advice about moving on to a boat (or any other significant lifestyle change) says don't jump in and change things until you are used to all the vagaries of that lifestyle.

 

how does go?

 

fools jump in where angels fear to tread.

 

and if you think people like Alan and Sue live in smoke filled peasant hovels eating raw rabbit on a skewer you could not be more wrong.

 

It is you who are patronising them.

 

I think 'newbies' need handling with kid gloves until, with experience, they can read between lines. When I fitted out my boat I asked for and listened to advice from different

people, but in the end, after careful consideration, did things my way. Every person you ask will give different advice, so advice is not there to be taken, but to be considered and provide background knowledge. No doubt Soulgirl will make some mistakes but at the end of the day she will create something with her stamp on it. I was told that various things on our boat will give endless probs just because they were different or uneccessary or unconventional, but it all worked ok because I didn't, like a fool, rush in. It seems to me that Soulgirl is doing her research and we should applaude that and try to accommodate her and carefully consider our responses to her enthusiasm.

Edited July 27, 2009 by nb Innisfree

[sueb]

I think the problem is people have what they think are 'good' ideas and don't like it when others don't agree with them. Sorry but I am not going to say 'fantastic' when I don't think it is. If that is rude and patronising - tough. We built our boat to our design and parts are not conventional.

Regarding the hob make sure it isn't too deep or you won't use the back rings because they will be under the tumblehome.

Have fun

Sue

[Chris J W]

I can only speak for myself, Sue, but for me it was the manner in which you disagreed and not the disagreement itself.

 

That's a good point about the hob depth, though. Doesn't look like circular one Soulgirl likes would have that problem, but you never know.

[Naughty Cal]

Had a good read back through this to see what all the fuss was about. I dont think Sue was too harsh. What she pointed out was a valid point that to have your main source of cooking redundant when on the move is madness. You may think you dont want an oven when cruising but why is being out cruising any different to being sat on your home mooring. You still need to eat.

 

There is no substitue for experience and a lot of people on here have a lot of experience. Asking advice then shooting it down will make them think twice before offering advise the nect time around.

[Chris J W]

The point is that we don't even know IF this particular oven will be redundant without a shoreline. Given that the fan is for COOLING and not for Assistance, then it could be possible to run it from the usual battery/inverter when off-grid. We don't know. But one would suspect that Soulgirl will email the company and get the exact power requirements.

 

SG's already discounted a few ideas based on the comments on this thread, so she's listening and learning, but to wade in with a comment of "I think Soulgirl has lost the plot. She doesn't want a 'boat', she just wants to get rid of her mortgage." isn't helpful in the slightest.

[Naughty Cal]

SG's already discounted a few ideas based on the comments on this thread, so she's listening and learning, but to wade in with a comment of "I think Soulgirl has lost the plot. She doesn't want a 'boat', she just wants to get rid of her mortgage." isn't helpful in the slightest.

 

Dont we all want to get rid of the mortgage

[Chris J W]

Dont we all want to get rid of the mortgage

 

[Soulgirl]

The foremost thoughts in my mind regarding appliances will be safety and 'lean consumption' of whatever fuel they require. 2nd important thing for me a decent build and looks so yes, my end choice will be expensive but it'll be built to last and more than likely German

 

And I AM getting rid of my mortgate

 

Sorry but I am not going to say 'fantastic' when I don't think it is. If that is rude and patronising - tough.

 

See, there you go again

 

Regarding the hob make sure it isn't too deep or you won't use the back rings because they will be under the tumblehome.

 

I've been looking at the 3 rings in a row hobs... practical and narrow... and funky Hmmm... a tumblehome? /run's off to look that up/

 

When I commission my 'gas man' we can decide together what is and what is not possible

[Naughty Cal]

Without wanting to sound patronising or rude or without wanting to cause offence

 

Have you been away on a NB before?. Do you know what you will do with the boat (i.e liveaboard and rarely move, do more cruising etc.)? These things have a bearing on your method of cooking.

[Soulgirl]

Yes, I've been on a NB before which is what made me decide it was the type of life I'd like to lead. I would have done it sooner but there was always 'fear' in making the decision but I'm now at a point where I'm thinking 'go for it'

 

I definitely will cruise at weekends and annual holiday entitlement periods. Lottie and I have already planned our first cruise in our heads and we're very excited. To be honest, I could live without an oven as I mostly cook stove top anyway - I'd just be missing out on roast dinners but happily roast joints in my slow cooker (wonders if there's a gas equivalent....???).

 

I'm more than open to advice, help and different ideas. I just took exception to the manner in which it was delivered Phylis.

 

Right, I'm back to my skip now as I'm de-cluttering before packing up stuff ready to move into my new life I have another viewing on my house today so fingers crossed either Saturday's viewers, or today's, will buy my property.

 

Good karma people; life's too short