How do I remove my rudder?

[MtB]

Well the boat is out of the water being blacked and I have the ideal opportunity to get the rudder modified to deal with the balance blade problem. Rather than get someone to come to the boat bringing welding/cutting gear, our local architectural metalworker will probably be able to alter it with ease for a lot less money if I deliver it to their workshop and collect it when done. So my plan is to remove the rudder from the boat this afternoon.

 

I can see the lower end of the rudder stock just sits in a plain cup bearing in the skeg, and the top rudder stock bearing is a plain inverted cup affair engaging over the rudder tube (rather than a proper ball race in a cast housing like posh boats often have). My question is how does the swan-neck section of the tiller attach to the top of the rudder stock? If I remove the single bolt in the centre where it attaches, will the swan-neck just come off, or will it be fitted onto a taper of some sort?

 

I'm asking so I can make sure I take the right tools with me to do it. Is a spanner all I need or do I need to organise a hub-puller or something else special?

 

Cheers, Mike

Edited May 10, 2009 by mike bryant

[bargeeboy]

Just undo the bottom of the swans neck and it should drop out if you have enough clearance in the dock.

 

I built the clearance under my baulks to 3 ft so I can drop Josher rudders out.

[gary4lw]

I think a hub puller would be a very good idea ,sacrificial bolt as well.

[Gibbo]

I removed mine a few years ago and I did ..........

 

Just undo the bottom of the swans neck....................

 

Followed by plenty of heat with a welding torch, several extremely hard hits with a sledge hammer, more heating, more hitting, then a modifed hub puller, more heat, more hitting......

 

It did come off eventually, after about 4 hours.

 

Gibbo

[MoominPapa]

It seems that there are (at least) two different ways to do the swan-neck to rudder joint. I took mine apart last weekend, not to take the rudder off, but because there was a few degrees of free-play between the swan-neck and the rudder: just enough to get irritating after a while when steering.

 

As you would expect, given the free play, there isn't a taper, and the swan-neck just lifted off once the bolt have been removed. The end of the shaft is square, and the hole through the boss on the swan neck is also square to fit it. Either the hole or the shaft or both had worn a bit, giving the free play.

 

I was looking at it, puzzling how to fix the play, when I noticed, stuck in the grease in the hole something that looked remarkably like a feeler-gauge blade, because that's exactly what it was. Problem solved! I sacrificed an old and rusty feeler set and fed the blades down between the shaft and the boss, waggling the boss to open the gaps as far as possible and using the fattest blade that would fit at each position. By the time I'd put five in, the joint was tight, no free play,

 

This is on a Jonathan Wilson shell. I wonder of all his are done that way?

 

MP.

Edited May 10, 2009 by MoominPapa

[David Schweizer]

If your Swan's neck on yiour boat is fitted in the same way as the one on my boat, you will need a lot of Gibbo's method to remove it. Mine is on a taper and apparently it also has a woodruff key in it, so that it can be centred eassily. Problem is this makes it more difficult to remove.

 

I was told by the person who built my boat that if I ever had to remove it, not to replace the woodruff key when it is re-assembled.

[MtB]

I removed mine a few years ago and I did ..........

 

 

 

Followed by plenty of heat with a welding torch, several extremely hard hits with a sledge hammer, more heating, more hitting, then a modifed hub puller, more heat, more hitting......

 

It did come off eventually, after about 4 hours.

 

Gibbo

 

 

 

I think that answers my question thanks Gibbo. I wanted to know if it would just fall apart on removal of the bolt or whether I was in for a battle.

 

I think I knew I was in for a battle with it really, I was just hoping I was wrong. I'll take the big van with all my gear then, not just a socket set :-)

 

 

Cheers, Mike

[Liam]

Have a look here... it may help.

 

http://www.liamswebsite.co.uk/off-with-the-tiller/

[MtB]

I think a hub puller would be a very good idea ,sacrificial bolt as well.

 

 

Well fter two hours of heating with a pair of plumber's blowlamps and comprehensively sacrificing the bolt with blows from my club hammer, the swan-neck remains firmly on the taper.

 

I think I'll have to ask the boatyard engineer to remove it because I have run out of time. I broached the subject with him the other day and he confidently said yes he could do it, but he also said he'd never removed one before and couldn't see a problem. Hmmm.

 

If he can't do it I think I might slice the swan-neck collar vertically with an angle grinder to release it. Or maybe I'll just cut the balance blade down in situ.

 

Thing is, I want to remove the swan-neck regardless now. It's turned into a challenge :-) Just off to eBay now to see what oxy gear is for sale on there...

 

Thanks for your advice everyone.

 

Cheers, Mike

[nb Innisfree]

Well the boat is out of the water being blacked and I have the ideal opportunity to get the rudder modified to deal with the balance blade problem. Rather than get someone to come to the boat bringing welding/cutting gear, our local architectural metalworker will probably be able to alter it with ease for a lot less money if I deliver it to their workshop and collect it when done. So my plan is to remove the rudder from the boat this afternoon.

 

I can see the lower end of the rudder stock just sits in a plain cup bearing in the skeg, and the top rudder stock bearing is a plain inverted cup affair engaging over the rudder tube (rather than a proper ball race in a cast housing like posh boats often have). My question is how does the swan-neck section of the tiller attach to the top of the rudder stock? If I remove the single bolt in the centre where it attaches, will the swan-neck just come off, or will it be fitted onto a taper of some sort?

 

I'm asking so I can make sure I take the right tools with me to do it. Is a spanner all I need or do I need to organise a hub-puller or something else special?

 

Cheers, Mike

Mine is a straight untaperd rudder stock in a standard nylon and rubber O ring bearing, the tiller just slides over and has two bolts in the side to tighten and secure it, no problem. Can't see why builders still bother with tapers, probably because thats how its always been done, a real pain.

[ditchcrawler]

I removed mine a few years ago and I did ..........

 

 

 

Followed by plenty of heat with a welding torch, several extremely hard hits with a sledge hammer, more heating, more hitting, then a modifed hub puller, more heat, more hitting......

 

It did come off eventually, after about 4 hours.

 

Gibbo

That's the way to do it

[RobinJ]

Well fter two hours of heating with a pair of plumber's blowlamps and comprehensively sacrificing the bolt with blows from my club hammer, the swan-neck remains firmly on the taper.

 

I think I'll have to ask the boatyard engineer to remove it because I have run out of time. I broached the subject with him the other day and he confidently said yes he could do it, but he also said he'd never removed one before and couldn't see a problem. Hmmm.

 

If he can't do it I think I might slice the swan-neck collar vertically with an angle grinder to release it. Or maybe I'll just cut the balance blade down in situ.

 

Thing is, I want to remove the swan-neck regardless now. It's turned into a challenge :-) Just off to eBay now to see what oxy gear is for sale on there...

One last try before you give up -

Lift the rudder as much as you can (only needs about half an inch), proping the swan neck boss on some wooden blocks.

Remove nut etc. and with a reasonably sized lump hammer, clout either side on the boss horizontally with a large blow.

 

Apparently the shock travels up the taper (thats what I was told)!

[nb Innisfree]

One last try before you give up -

Lift the rudder as much as you can (only needs about half an inch), proping the swan neck boss on some wooden blocks.

Remove nut etc. and with a reasonably sized lump hammer, clout either side on the boss horizontally with a large blow.

 

Apparently the shock travels up the taper (thats what I was told)!

Yes I have used that method in the past on car front suspensions, always worked but don't be gentle, it sometimes needs a humungus wallop!

[David Schweizer]

One last try before you give up -

Lift the rudder as much as you can (only needs about half an inch), proping the swan neck boss on some wooden blocks.

Remove nut etc. and with a reasonably sized lump hammer, clout either side on the boss horizontally with a large blow.

 

Apparently the shock travels up the taper (thats what I was told)!

That is how we used to remove top steering trunions on a car, but the method was slightly different.

 

First of all the nut/bolt holding the joint together needs to be fitted and tiightened, then using two large hammers, hit both sides of the taper horizontally at the same time. do this about three times, and then loosen the nut/bolt. It should fall apart.

 

Well it used to work on cars.