A class bit of engineering.

[Speedwheel]

what about giving the 'tug style' boat a deeper draught to increase headroom, wouldn't that be better than putting an out of proportion cabin on it?

 

Exactly. It is simply a case that people want the low freeboard look. The old tugs that had this also had 3ft draft. Without this draft there is not the space and people need to put high cabins on they end up steering with the tiller under their armpit.

 

Here are some old boats to demonstrate.

http://www.bcn-society.co.uk/showbigpic.php?pic=sand1_1_big

http://www.bcn-society.co.uk/showbigpic.ph...c=pacific_1_big

 

I can stand up in both these boats quite easily and I am just over 6ft.

Edited March 26, 2009 by Satellite

[Laurence Hogg]

"A classy bit of engineering" - why?

This is obviously based on a misjudged impression of Hingleys "Crown", this was a Midlands and coast horse boat built by Yarwoods as "North" in 1926. It was subsequently sold to Hingley and made into a tug. The bow is fine and the cabin quite low, the boat ended up as "Lion" owned at one time by John Saxon.

What is shown here is a comic book interpretation of a BCN tug. I think it is wrong to use a historic livery when the boat portrayed is so remote from what it should have been. I have a picture of crown on old Hill dock and compared to this new boat there are a number of substantial differences, the main one being one is real and the other fake! note the length of the counter on "Crown".

Edited March 26, 2009 by Laurence Hogg

[Speedwheel]

Thanks Laurence. No real comparison is it. I'll see if I can dig out a couple of pics of it as Lion when Malcolm had it.

Does anyone know if it is still moored at Braunston? If it is I am down there tomorrow and will see if I can get a couple of pics.

[Gary Peacock]

I think the really bad word here is REPLICA obviously these boats aren't and I doubt even the builders make that claim?

 

Moving out of my comfort zone here but does or has anybody had build a 100% accurate replica in recent years? Or would that be just too much like the real thing to justify the cost?

[Lady Muck]

I think the really bad word here is REPLICA obviously these boats aren't and I doubt even the builders make that claim?

 

Moving out of my comfort zone here but does or has anybody had build a 100% accurate replica in recent years? Or would that be just too much like the real thing to justify the cost?

 

Thing is - would there be any point? It might look good but it might not make for so much fun on a holiday - you'd be constantly braining yuorself in the cabin, forever running aground.....

 

I love the original though..beautiful.

[Athy]

What is shown here is a comic book interpretation of a BCN tug. I think it is wrong to use a historic livery when the boat portrayed is so remote from what it should have been. I have a picture of crown on old Hill dock and compared to this new boat there are a number of substantial differences, the main one being one is real and the other fake!

Laurence, I respect your opinion (and have some of your videos at home which I also enjpy), but I don't think it's right to call the Davis boat a "fake". The livery, applied by the owners and not by Mel, might well be, but this is a practical modern boat inspired by an older one - a combinaton of old and new. I can see no harm in that.

[Gary Peacock]

Thing is - would there be any point? It might look good but it might not make for so much fun on a holiday - you'd be constantly braining yuorself in the cabin, forever running aground.....

 

I love the original though..beautiful.

 

So the reality is these boats are just a more expensive variation on the "modern" narrowboat aimed at those with more beer tokens to spend?

 

If they could be produced cheaper would there be a market?

[GUMPY]

Exactly. It is simply a case that people want the low freeboard look. The old tugs that had this also had 3ft draft. Without this draft there is not the space and people need to put high cabins on they end up steering with the tiller under their armpit.

 

Here are some old boats to demonstrate.

http://www.bcn-society.co.uk/showbigpic.php?pic=sand1_1_big

http://www.bcn-society.co.uk/showbigpic.ph...c=pacific_1_big

 

I can stand up in both these boats quite easily and I am just over 6ft.

 

There is a copy of Pacific owned by a member of this Forum and it looks good, was built by the previous owner of Pacific whilst he had it.

 

My barge Parglena is a copy of Parbella but at 75% scale. Not 100% accurate but pretty close

Edited March 26, 2009 by idleness

[Athy]

Looking at the price of some modern boats, Gary, I am not sure that Mel's are more expensive. We (well, I actually) wanted a traditional engine, which added a fair bit to the price; had we specified, for example, a Beta or Shire engine, the per-foot price would have gone down quite a lot. But I felt that a slow thumper was appropriate to the pace of the waterways (having previously had boats with Petter and Rigas engines had conditioned me!) and fortunately I was able to afford one on this occasion.

As I may have said before, the one thing that boaters have in common is that we're all different. If someone has a 57 footer with a Beta and a cruiser stern, I'm happy that they like it. But I prefer a boat based on, though not aping, older designs, and I certainly do not consider ours to be a "comic-book" boat. Damn sight dearer than the Beano if it is....

[Timleech]

Not the world's greatest picture, just linking to one which is already 'out there', but this cabin has real rivets, the thing to notice is that they're not noticeable except up close. What you might (at first sight of the pic) think to be rivets along the top of the engine room are actually bolts, as the engine room top is made to be removeable.

 

 

Tim

[magnetman]

Not the world's greatest picture, just linking to one which is already 'out there', but this cabin has real rivets, the thing to notice is that they're not noticeable except up close. What you might (at first sight of the pic) think to be rivets along the top of the engine room are actually bolts, as the engine room top is made to be removeable.

 

 

Tim

 

Is it right that they are, or should be, brass bolts so they can be undone readily and is it true that the engineroom top was removeable so that a problematic or nackered engine could be lifted and replaced fairly quickly to reduce downtime and allow the mechanics to work on it in the workshop rather than in the boat?

[Hairy-Neil]

Maybe it's time for a Polish copy at a more affordable price?

 

I think Bargeeboy has it in hand.....

 

Both Stafford and Greyhound have made the trip to Poland. I would be very surprised if the opportunity hasn't been taken to make templates and profile gauges.....

Edited March 27, 2009 by Hairy-Neil

[magnetman]

I think Bargeeboy has it in hand.....

 

complete with imitation dents made with a big hammer

[NB Alnwick]

Not the world's greatest picture, just linking to one which is already 'out there', but this cabin has real rivets, the thing to notice is that they're not noticeable except up close. What you might (at first sight of the pic) think to be rivets along the top of the engine room are actually bolts, as the engine room top is made to be removeable.

 

 

Tim

 

The 'rivets' along our cabin top are also bolts (real ones) - the builder, Phil Trotter, built the boat for his own use and the hull was based on photographs and drawings of steel motors built by Yarwoods in the 1930s but he never claimed that it is a replica of anything - we don't know why he put all those bolts (and nuts) in but it was his boat, built in his yard at his expense - so his choice. They are the very devil to paint but, for all its faults, we wouldn't change Alnwick for any other boat we have seen and in my opinion R W Davis boats are significantly more substantially built than so many of the, rather tinny, 'pretend' replicas that we see around.

[Timleech]

Is it right that they are, or should be, brass bolts so they can be undone readily and is it true that the engineroom top was removeable so that a problematic or nackered engine could be lifted and replaced fairly quickly to reduce downtime and allow the mechanics to work on it in the workshop rather than in the boat?

 

The GU fleet operation was set up so that engines could be exchanged and/or removed to the workshop if there were major problems. Not sure about the brass bolts though, never seen that, galvanised seems more likely. It used (at least in post-GU times) to be common to see engine room tops with only the bare minimum of bolts in place, understandable as it's quite a time consuming business undoing and replacing something around 100 bolts.

Note that the cabin top is rivetted, and the engine room top is rivetted to its framing. I have a feeling that originally at least some of the GU motor boats originally had the engine room top rivetted into place but were later made removeable, though I've no firm evidence of that to hand.

 

Tim

[Batavia]

There is a copy of Pacific owned by a member of this Forum and it looks good, was built by the previous owner of Pacific whilst he had it.

Is this a reference to Batavia - or something else?

 

If Batavia, thanks for the observation. It was more "inspired by", than intended to be a replica of Pacific. Also, we are to blame for the rivets, not Roger - the boat was only built up to the gunwhale when we bought it, so the blame for the rest lies with us.

 

I think the cabin side could have been lower, but with 2' 8" draft, there is only just over 6' headroom inside, due to the very low counter.

Chris G

Edited March 27, 2009 by Batavia

[Paul H]

Is this a reference to Batavia - or something else?

 

If Batavia, thanks for the observation. It was more "inspired by", than intended to be a replica of Pacific. Also, we are to blame for the rivets, not Roger - the boat was only built up to the gunwhale when we bought it, so the blame for the rest lies with us.

 

I think the cabin side could have been lower, but with 2' 8" draft, there is only just over 6' headroom inside, due to the very low counter.

Chris G

That's sooo much better! If I didn't like knackered old baots I'd be tempted!

 

Any chance of a stern view?

 

Incidently there has been a Mel Davis boat at Brinklow for the last year or so. Surrounded by working boats it stuck out like a sore thumb. It would also be a very difficult boat to boat particularly with its small counter and bow deck, narrow roll-edged gunnels, tall upright cabin.

 

But each to their own.

 

Paul H

[Batavia]

Any chance of a stern view?

 

 

 

Paul H

 

Here we go - note the somewhat unfinished state....

 

Chris G

Edited March 28, 2009 by Batavia

[O'Mali]

There is a copy of Pacific owned by a member of this Forum and it looks good, was built by the previous owner of Pacific whilst he had it.

 

My barge Parglena is a copy of Parbella but at 75% scale. Not 100% accurate but pretty close

I like this one too.http://www.flickr.com/photos/27983243@N06/...57611781036832/

 

I like this one too.

 

Very interesting threat with some very informative replies. It has made me think a lot more about boat designs. Thanks

Edited March 27, 2009 by O'Mali

[GUMPY]

Is this a reference to Batavia - or something else?

 

It was, I only saw it when it was still a hull and with a temporary steel cover on the top.

[Laurence Hogg]

The 'rivets' along our cabin top are also bolts (real ones) - the builder, Phil Trotter, built the boat for his own use and the hull was based on photographs and drawings of steel motors built by Yarwoods in the 1930s but he never claimed that it is a replica of anything - we don't know why he put all those bolts (and nuts) in but it was his boat, built in his yard at his expense - so his choice. They are the very devil to paint but, for all its faults, we wouldn't change Alnwick for any other boat we have seen and in my opinion R W Davis boats are significantly more substantially built than so many of the, rather tinny, 'pretend' replicas that we see around.

 

Nice looking boat - i supplied Phil with the plans

[GUMPY]

I like this one too.http://www.flickr.com/photos/27983243@N06/...57611781036832/

 

I like this one too.

 

Very interesting threat with some very informative replies. It has made me think a lot more about boat designs. Thanks

 

That was just after we had her blacked after returning from the River Crouch

[Speedwheel]

Is this a reference to Batavia - or something else?

 

If Batavia, thanks for the observation. It was more "inspired by", than intended to be a replica of Pacific. Also, we are to blame for the rivets, not Roger - the boat was only built up to the gunwhale when we bought it, so the blame for the rest lies with us.

 

I think the cabin side could have been lower, but with 2' 8" draft, there is only just over 6' headroom inside, due to the very low counter.

 

As Chris says Roger never intended to build a replica of Pacific. I think inspired by is the perfect term. Due to hull having a decent depth it does not have an excessively high cabin. It is still a bit higher than many of the old boats but I think it is a happy medium and having seen the boat in the flesh many times it is a fine craft indeed! (I think Chris and Daphne will agree that Rogers eye has much to be thanked for that!)

[Neil TNC]

My barge Parglena is a copy of Parbella but at 75% scale. Not 100% accurate but pretty close

 

Which looks much nicer than the modifications to Parcastle

[sociable_hermit]

I used to like the Reeves hulls used by Stowe Hill Marine, but looking at the SHM website now I see that the latest boats seem to have exaggerated bows - "as though the front's been squashed in the lock gates" as someone (Alan?) said a while ago.

 

Have they changed? Or have they always been like this, and I'm just seeing it now?

 

Passed a traditional-looking Stowe Hill boat on a private mooring on the T&M a few weeks ago and I must say it looked very nice 'in the flesh'.

 

Batavia is prettier, though, thinking about it.