Lighting comparisons and observations

[Nickhlx]

Over the last few months, I have been making observations on the various lighting technologies available, which may be of interest to others..

 

I have compiled a table of the relative outputs from Halogen, LEDS and compact fluorescent light bulbs for consideration as to what to install and where on the boat... differences in prices and efficiencies are quite noticeable, with compact (and linear) fluorescents being inexpensive yet efficient, but maybe a poor quality light for some people.

 

Obviously it is nicer to read by a "fuller spectrum" light, like a "warm white" halogen type, whereas it is probably acceptable to have some general illumination by another type of more efficient light but perhaps with a "more spikey" spectrum, or a mixture of bulbs as a compromise....

 

I won't bore with all the details ( happy to PM to interested parties) but general findings have been as follows for efficiency:

 

LEDs (latest offerings) around 65 to 90 Lumens /watt

Compact fluorescent around 56 to 61 Lumens /watt

Halogen around 14 to 28 Lumens /watt ( G4 capsules / auto bulbs).

 

So for a given level of light this is suggesting ( taking averages of the above) LEDs use around a quarter of the power of halogen but even now, not that much less than fluorescents (say 80% of the power that fluorescents use for a given light level) although maybe a more pleasing light if warm white is used. Significant savings in power consumption can be made by replacing as many halogens as possible, ( which we all knew) inexpensively if fluorescents can be used / tolerated, but at quite a cost if LEDs are used.

 

Naturally LED technology is marching ahead every month with significant improvements being made ( The latest Audi car headlamps are now LED (!) although only produce around 1000 lumens each compared to HID at 3 to 4 times this ) but my current ( ho ho ho) thoughts are to use some compact fluorescents for general lighting, some warm white LEDs for reading lamps and/or those which are on a lot of the time, with a mixture of the usual G4 capsule lights and LEDs in the ceiling fittings.

 

Nick

Edited February 24, 2009 by Nickhlx

[Ex- Member]

I'm totally happy now with LED's especially since obtaining the warm white variety and IMO there the ideal choice for a boat being able now to get so many different fitments at different levells of light depending on the amount of LED's they contain. The Luxon LED's ars also a nice light but more pricy.

 

The problem with florescent lights is the light, they're ok in work areas kitchens, and I'm fitting a 300mm one over the bathroom mirror just to illuminate better for shaving and for Lynn to do her makeup. But in a lounge or bedroom they're not for me or Lynn. The other problem with them is thier ug;y, I would much rather have ceiling lights like MR16 sunken, than tubes that require ugly fittings.

 

The power drain of halogens and heat they produce to me seem completely unacceptable and unfit for purpose when LED's are now available at a reasonable cost.

 

I noticed in Morrisons yesterday that energy saving light bulbs @ 230 volt are for sale for 8p each if you buy 6 bulbs, that's now cheaper than the old type bulb. Hopefully LED's will end up a similar price

[Nickhlx]

I'm totally happy now with LED's especially since obtaining the warm white variety and IMO there the ideal choice for a boat being able now to get so many different fitments at different levells of light depending on the amount of LED's they contain. The Luxon LED's ars also a nice light but more pricy.

 

The problem with florescent lights is the light, they're ok in work areas kitchens, and I'm fitting a 300mm one over the bathroom mirror just to illuminate better for shaving and for Lynn to do her makeup. But in a lounge or bedroom they're not for me or Lynn. The other problem with them is thier ug;y, I would much rather have ceiling lights like MR16 sunken, than tubes that require ugly fittings.

 

The power drain of halogens and heat they produce to me seem completely unacceptable and unfit for purpose when LED's are now available at a reasonable cost.

 

I noticed in Morrisons yesterday that energy saving light bulbs @ 230 volt are for sale for 8p each if you buy 6 bulbs, that's now cheaper than the old type bulb. Hopefully LED's will end up a similar price

 

 

Hi,

 

Yes, agree with you and will probably end up and "bite the bullet", replace all the cabin downlighters with LEDS, and have some CFLs in lamps with shades on to "warm them up a bit" for a bit more general light- more experimenting to be done..

 

It won't be long before LEDs are even brighter and a more pleasing light to the eye - I saw in France a couple of weeks ago that MR16s etc are available with multi-coloured LEDs in a fitting, presumably to give a fuller spectrum of light - quite inexpensive as well - probably in the UK too but not seen them yet...

 

Nick

[alan_fincher]

The power drain of halogens and heat they produce to me seem completely unacceptable and unfit for purpose when LED's are now available at a reasonable cost.

Although presumably people who consider Halogens too "thirsty", are quite prepared to accept the consumption of an electric fridge without question ?

 

The latter, (running all day), will be a far bigger drain on most people's batteries than a few halogen lights, (run only when dark), will ever be.

 

But of course those in thge canal boating fraternity that insist that portholes is the only possible approach to letting natural light in may well have to turn their cabin lights on more than those with nice big picture windows.

[Ex- Member]

Although presumably people who consider Halogens too "thirsty", are quite prepared to accept the consumption of an electric fridge without question ?

 

More so if a fridge was invented that used a quarter of the energy.

 

But of course those in thge canal boating fraternity that insist that portholes is the only possible approach to letting natural light in may well have to turn their cabin lights on more than those with nice big picture windows.

 

Depends on how many portholes you use

[Nickhlx]

More so if a fridge was invented that used a quarter of the energy.

 

 

 

Depends on how many portholes you use

 

 

Are gas fridges allowed still or have the regs tightened up to make them more difficult to install now ?

 

re light and portholes... surely no-one needs electric lights on during the day to see inside their boat, apart from maybe in the smallest room on some boats ? If so, how would more windows help raise lighting levels at night when you need light in the boat ?

 

 

Nick

[sueb]

Are gas fridges allowed still or have the regs tightened up to make them more difficult to install now ?

 

re light and portholes... surely no-one needs electric lights on during the day to see inside their boat, apart from maybe in the smallest room on some boats ? If so, how would more windows help raise lighting levels at night when you need light in the boat ?

 

 

Nick

You can fit whatever fridge you like. Getting someone else to fit one is a different story.

Sue

[alan_fincher]

Are gas fridges allowed still or have the regs tightened up to make them more difficult to install now ?

 

As Sue says, currently no restrictions.

 

However the latest BSS advice, (though not a regulation), is to go electric, so perhaps at some stage they will start to put them out of bounds.

 

I think the real issue is that Electrolux/Dometic have never actually said their open flue fridges should be installed on boats, despite the many many thousands that have been, and them once being the standard offering of the hire boat industry.

 

It's a hobby horse of mine, but I remain unconvinced that a decently installed LPG fridge presents any greater dangers than the often dodgy circumstances in which you see generators being run to top up the juice used by electric ones. If the BSS people produce good statistical evidence of them being measurably more dangerous, then I'll swap mine to electric.

 

re light and portholes... surely no-one needs electric lights on during the day to see inside their boat, apart from maybe in the smallest room on some boats ? If so, how would more windows help raise lighting levels at night when you need light in the boat ?

Moor somewhere with bright lights outside the boat, (Birmingham city centre, Paddington basin, etc) ?

 

No, I wasn't being strictly serious, although in conditions of poor outside light, I can well imagine that boats with a few portholes do need their lights turned on significantly before those with big windows.

[ditchcrawler]

As Sue says, currently no restrictions.

 

However the latest BSS advice, (though not a regulation), is to go electric, so perhaps at some stage they will start to put them out of bounds.

 

I think the real issue is that Electrolux/Dometic have never actually said their open flue fridges should be installed on boats, despite the many many thousands that have been, and them once being the standard offering of the hire boat industry.

 

It's a hobby horse of mine, but I remain unconvinced that a decently installed LPG fridge presents any greater dangers than the often dodgy circumstances in which you see generators being run to top up the juice used by electric ones. If the BSS people produce good statistical evidence of them being measurably more dangerous, then I'll swap mine to electric.

 

 

Moor somewhere with bright lights outside the boat, (Birmingham city centre, Paddington basin, etc) ?

 

No, I wasn't being strictly serious, although in conditions of poor outside light, I can well imagine that boats with a few portholes do need their lights turned on significantly before those with big windows.

We have all portholes in our boat, our friends have all windows. When we moor up the first thing our friends do is draw the curtains to stop passer bys looking in. I don't know which of us switch the lights on first.

[Nickhlx]

You can fit whatever fridge you like. Getting someone else to fit one is a different story.

Sue

 

 

I thought I had seen something somewhere

 

Thanks,

 

Nick

[alan_fincher]

We have all portholes in our boat, our friends have all windows. When we moor up the first thing our friends do is draw the curtains to stop passer bys looking in. I don't know which of us switch the lights on first.

I thought it was more scary leaving your portholes "un-bunged" than curtains un-drawn on "bus" windows.

 

I'd rather have people casting their gaze in from a distance, than forcing their head into the porthole at point blank range to see what the interior looks like.

 

No - not a serious comment, really, although we never rush to shut curtains, hatches or doors. I must admit I still extract amusement from some of the unbelieving comments about "there's even a cooker in there" and the like. If I could fit an old fashioned mangle in, I might just do so, in order to vary the overheard comments!

[Ex- Member]

We actually have 17 portholes throughout the boat, 4 of which are directly over the galley in the 5f/t pigeon hatch that render ample light on their own. We've never felt that we suffer from a lack of light, in fact we quite often put bungs in where the sun shines directly to reduce the light and heat especially in the summer. The other thing I like is the ability to completely black our areas in the boat with bungs especially bedroom where we lke it pitch dark to sleep without light pollution. The bungs also give some extra insulation and stop the portholes condensating.

 

I think it's a bit of a misconseption that portholes will make your boat gloomy. Some modern portholes now have quite big diameters 14/ 15 inch. Personally I think they look better too, internally and externally. You just might to use more of them if you require lots of light.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is not a flash camera shot, just a straight photo.

 

[bargemast]

We actually have 17 portholes throughout the boat, 4 of which are directly over the galley in the 5f/t pigeon hatch that render ample light on their own. We've never felt that we suffer from a lack of light, in fact we quite often put bungs in where the sun shines directly to reduce the light and heat especially in the summer. The other thing I like is the ability to completely black our areas in the boat with bungs especially bedroom where we lke it pitch dark to sleep without light pollution. The bungs also give some extra insulation and stop the portholes condensating.

 

I think it's a bit of a misconseption that portholes will make your boat gloomy. Some modern portholes now have quite big diameters 14/ 15 inch. Personally I think they look better too, internally and externally. You just might to use more of them if you require lots of light.

 

Julian, I think your boat looks smashing, very cosy and a lovely fit-out and it may even create jalousie by many. Portholes are a personal choice, apart for them who want that "traditonal look" as they have to have portholes. On the photographs of the past with traditional boats I've only seen tarpaulins over the hold, and no windows of any kind. Since the function of the boats has changed, it's up to their owners to fit whatever they like best. For me it's windows, because I like to be able to see where I am, and while cruising, specially when it's cold or raining, it's nice for the passengers to be able to see where we go sitted down, without having to stand up to look through the portholes. But as I said before, it's a personal choice.

 

Cheers, Peter.

.

[Ex- Member]

Julian, I think your boat looks smashing, very cosy and a lovely fit-out and it may even create jalousie by many. Portholes are a personal choice, apart for them who want that "traditonal look" as they have to have portholes. On the photographs of the past with traditional boats I've only seen tarpaulins over the hold, and no windows of any kind. Since the function of the boats has changed, it's up to their owners to fit whatever they like best. For me it's windows, because I like to be able to see where I am, and while cruising, specially when it's cold or raining, it's nice for the passengers to be able to see where we go sitted down, without having to stand up to look through the portholes. But as I said before, it's a personal choice.

 

Cheers, Peter.

.

 

Thanks for the fit-out compliment Peter, much appreciated

 

Yeah of course peter it is a matter of choice, I was just trying to make the point that many people might dismiss portholes outright because it's seems the general consensus on forums is, that portholes will make your boat gloomy and won't give much light, which isn't entirely the case or a true reflection on the amount of light you can get from them. So i'm just trying to give some balance to the debate. I think many people actually like portholes but are put off them due to the perceived light factor without really looking into them further. We've had a few boaters come on board and stated they never thought we would get as much light from them as we do. And one couple wishing they had used some portholes on reflection.

 

Good point about standing up to look out of the window though, one porthole is directly over the kitchen sink so great when washing up, but yeah if you want to check out the weather or some noise or commotion you we do have to get up off our bottoms peeking through different portholes. On balance though I do like the privacy factor as well as I tend to wander around with not much on especially in the summer so the portholes assist although more a protection for the public that my embarrasment though

 

Like anything with boats it's either annoying compromise or personal choice. I'm not a fan of bus windows as I call them and dismissed them very quickly as a choice for us but do appreciate why people prefer them for many varied reasons.

 

To me though a lovely row of portholes along a boat looks sublime and a choice we've never regretted.

 

 

 

Cheers, Julian

[Keeping Up]

Good point about standing up to look out of the window though, one porthole is directly over the kitchen sink so great when washing up, but yeah if you want to check out the weather or some noise or commotion you we do have to get up off our bottoms peeking through different portholes. On balance though I do like the privacy factor as well as I tend to wander around with not much on especially in the summer so the portholes assist although more a protection for the public that my embarrasment though

It's not only portholes that suffer from this problem. Our boat has large windows but the gunwales are fairly high so we still have to stand up to see anything through them except sky.

[Ex- Member]

It's not only portholes that suffer from this problem. Our boat has large windows but the gunwales are fairly high so we still have to stand up to see anything through them except sky.

 

Actually that's a good point thinking about it, ours are too having 7f/t headroom, when sat on sofa the top of my head is at the level of the gunwale.

[bigcol]

It's not only portholes that suffer from this problem. Our boat has large windows but the gunwales are fairly high so we still have to stand up to see anything through them except sky.

 

 

Hi there

 

Our boat has just got Port holes, and to be fair I also are a litle bit more happy with the security side of it, and I like the lines of the side of the boat with the brass portholes.

 

Julynian your boat looks fantastic, as Im a newbie a couple of questions please.

 

I noticed that tou have a stove with no flue is this correct,? or is this some new that i dont know about

 

also noticed you have no stairs, My boat has the bedroom at the front and We was wondering if we need stairs, as we dont think that we will use the front deck all the time.

 

Anyway your boat loogs great and looks to be tastlfully done.

 

All the best

 

Col

[Ex- Member]

I noticed that tou have a stove with no flue is this correct,? or is this some new that i dont know about

 

Hi Col welcome.

 

The boat is still being fitted out just the back cabin to finish and exterior painting. I removed the chimney as the boiler didn't like the kinks i put in to make it look more attractive so it had to be removed and I have a new straight piece of chimney ready to fit. I did know the boiler required a straight flu, but tried the wonky one just in case it would work. Unfortunately the boiler wouldn't heat quite to maximum suffering from lack of draw.

 

 

also noticed you have no stairs, My boat has the bedroom at the front and We was wondering if we need stairs, as we dont think that we will use the front deck all the time.

 

I'm having some made possibly in wrought Iron from a local Blacksmith. Possibly from Oak if the Iron is too pricy. You could use hop up steps, possibly fold away. Most people have steps built in and the steps used for storage space.

 

Anyway your boat loogs great and looks to be tastlfully done

 

Thanks for the compliment, appreciated

[bargemast]

.

 

We've had a few boaters come on board and stated they never thought we would get as much light from them as we do. And one couple wishing they had used some portholes on reflection.

 

I do like the privacy factor as well as I tend to wander around with not much on especially in the summer so the portholes assist although more a protection for the public that my embarrasment though

 

Like anything with boats it's either annoying compromise or personal choice. I'm not a fan of bus windows as I call them and dismissed them very quickly as a choice for us but do appreciate why people prefer them for many varied reasons.

 

To me though a lovely row of portholes along a boat looks sublime and a choice we've never regretted.

 

 

 

Cheers, Julian

 

Julian, I'm convinced that you will have lots of daylight come into your boat, with the amount of portholes you've got, and they sure do look very nice, plus the light you get from your pigeonbox, so in your case it's not likely that you need to switch your lights on earlier then a boat with big windows.

 

About the privacy factor, I don't think I can agree with that one, I had a boat with portholes, and many people couldn't resist trying to peep through those, probably thinking that because they didn't see anyone obvious they could permit to have a look inside. With my big windows I can pull the curtains at the bankside and still have lots of light comming in.

 

Quite a few NB's have a raised dinette setup to enable you to see out properly, something I do like.

 

Myself, I have no NB and on my boat I can see out wherever I sit, I will try to send a picture of the boat I'm living on, so you understand what I mean.

 

If it works, I will add 2 pictures of the little barge that I was converting to live on, until I had to stop because of a heart problem, I will continue if I get rid of this problem, or else I have to find a new owner for her. On her I made the floor high to enable me to see out of the kitchen and living while seated, the barge is far from finished and looks a bit strange with her little original wheelhouse, that has to be replaced by a lower, longer and larger one, if I can.

 

Cheers, Peter.

 

[Ex- Member]

About the privacy factor, I don't think I can agree with that one, I had a boat with portholes, and many people couldn't resist trying to peep through those, probably thinking that because they didn't see anyone obvious they could permit to have a look inside. With my big windows I can pull the curtains at the bankside and still have lots of light comming in.

 

That's true when we were on the cut we did get a lot of people peeping in. What we tended to do was block portholes tow path side if relaxing on the boat. Whilst working on it it ddidn't bother us. It's funny though as you say people peep in thinkimg no one aboard, the look on their faces when they see you and scuttle away is quite comical .

 

The barge you have there looks a smashing craft, I hope you get well enough soon to finish the job. I'm assuming the larger boat is a before and after with the new cabin added, that must be quite spacoius

[Pretty Funked Up]

Hi now this thread has totally gone off LEDs... can I ask Julynian what wood the floor is and how much that cost? its gorgeous

[Ex- Member]

Hi now this thread has totally gone off LEDs... can I ask Julynian what wood the floor is and how much that cost? its gorgeous

 

Hi Pretty Funked Up

 

It's Cherrywood, came from a tree struck by lightening on some Lords estate in dorset. It is lovely a myrriad of colours Green Orange to Red & cream. I bought it sawn and seasoned it myself in our warehouse for a year + cost around £100 quid or so as I recall, that was around 5 years ago though.

 

The LED's enhance the cherrywood beautifully

 

See! back on topic

[Pretty Funked Up]

 

you did very well there, beautiful bargain

[bargemast]

It's funny though as you say people peep in thinkimg no one aboard, the look on their faces when they see you and scuttle away is quite comical .

 

 

On the barge I had with the portholes, I must have scared a lot of people, that would think twice before doing it again. When they arrive with their face at the porthole, you see them straightaway, but for them it takes a few seconds to see what's happening inside, I used to hit the porthole they were peeping through with my flat hand, which felt being hit in the face (which I would never do !)

 

The barge you have there looks a smashing craft, I hope you get well enough soon to finish the job. I'm assuming the larger boat is a before and after with the new cabin added, that must be quite spacoius

 

It is a nice shaped little barge, and she would look at least 10 times as good with some paint on, may be with the better weather arriving I will feel strong enough to give it another go. You are assuming right that the pictures are before and after, and she is quite spacious and more spacious then most barges of a that size, because I made the superstructure almost full width like a NB but instead of having to use the 4" side decks to go forward, I made 2' wide stairs 5 steps up to get onto the roof, were I made some nice strong bollards on each side halfway the roof, which gives me a nice deck to work the ropes on. Next to the wheelhouse and on the frontdeck I made strong boxes, more then 2' high with bollards on top of those, so I don't have to kneel down to do the ropes. Makes it easy on my bad back.

[Nickhlx]

Hi now this thread has totally gone off LEDs... can I ask Julynian what wood the floor is and how much that cost? its gorgeous

 

 

HI-JACK

 

 

(Don't worry about it)

 

Nick