Tiller Swan Neck Removal

[Ian B]

2003 narrowboat, I am needing to remove the swan neck,I have tied up the rudder blade,

 

undone the centre nut, removed 2 grub screws and tried with a puller to spring it off,

 

No Go,

 

what am I doing wrong

 

Thanks

 

Ian

[mayalld]

2003 narrowboat, I am needing to remove the swan neck,I have tied up the rudder blade,

 

undone the centre nut, removed 2 grub screws and tried with a puller to spring it off,

 

No Go,

 

what am I doing wrong

 

Thanks

 

Ian

 

A photo would help.

 

There are many designs!

[mrsmelly]

2003 narrowboat, I am needing to remove the swan neck,I have tied up the rudder blade,

 

undone the centre nut, removed 2 grub screws and tried with a puller to spring it off,

 

No Go,

 

what am I doing wrong

 

Thanks

 

Ian

 

Hi Ian

 

Make sure there is no fancy plate holding the thing on the top of the rudder shaft ( I doubt there will be ) then use a very proven method known as "dont force it use a bigger hammer" in other words whilst applying upward pressure whack the B...... with a big hammer at the side of the base were u took the nut off that does the trick.

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Liam]

When we removed our swan neck we firstly secured the rudder, just in case, and then removed the top bolt. It took us a while to get the actual thing off and in the end it had to be encouraged by what I can only describe as a small car jack sat on the counter with the head of it under the block where the tiller joins the rudder post so you may need one of these contraptions - sorry I don't know the name of it.

 

Once it was off then we were able to replace the bearing easily. To replace it we just had to reverse the procedure but with the help of a hammer to get it back in place.

[carlt]

If you're sure there's nothing left fixing it down, you could always try a Hi-Lift or farm jack.

[NB Alnwick]

2003 narrowboat, I am needing to remove the swan neck,I have tied up the rudder blade,

 

undone the centre nut, removed 2 grub screws and tried with a puller to spring it off,

 

No Go,

 

what am I doing wrong

 

Thanks

 

Ian

 

Put the tiller arm on and try turning it with the rudder jammed against a suitable stop.

If its on a taper (as ours is) you nead to 'break' the tight fit to the taper before it will come off.

[John Orentas]

Ian.

 

Just to prewarn you, if all else fails you might be left with the last option of heating the thing to red hot with an acetylene torch.. Ironically the better the boat the harder it is to shift such things.

[Ian B]

Boat is moored near Nantwich,

 

Hopefully going out this week

 

so I'll take a few photos and post them

 

Ian

[MartinClark]

The quickest way to remove the swan neck is to let the boat come up in one of the Calder and Hebble locks with the tiller under the walkway of the bottom gates. I know - I have seen an expert do it!

[David Schweizer]

Ian.

 

Just to prewarn you, if all else fails you might be left with the last option of heating the thing to red hot with an acetylene torch.. Ironically the better the boat the harder it is to shift such things.

I have been told by one of the fabricators, who built my boat, that I would have to use the acertylene torch method to get my swan's neck off, apparently it is on a taper with a woodruff key!! He has talken several off over the years and recommends that they are re-assembled minus the woodruff key.

[NB Phoenix]

Just to cheer you up, it took me over two days trying to get mine off last year. Started with WD40 and penetrating oil, then moved onto a big hammer. Next was a blow lamp and a bigger hammer, then came the oxy acetylene. In the end I cut the cup in half with a disk cutter! Half came off but the other half with the swan neck attached still required a few good thumps with the big hammer. And all this was just to replace the warstock bearing. I have now welded two lugs on either half of the cup, drilled holes through them and use two stainless nuts and bolts to clamp the cup together over the rudder stem. Hopefully the next time I take it off it’s just a case of removing bolts and splitting the cup. Another reason I resorted to this solution was the thought that if I ever had to leave the boat unattended for any length of time I could easily remove the swan neck for added security (i.e. it’s hard to steer a boat without a rudder).

Edited January 19, 2009 by NB Phoenix

[NB Alnwick]

It isn't always difficult, mine came loose when I was steering hard round a right hand bend, going up-river against a strong flow, on the River Cherwell section of the Oxford Canal north of Thrupp. Fortunately it only moved about ten degrees but it was a tad scary

 

When I eventually stopped, straightened it, and got the big spanner on the nut, I was able to tighten it just over half a turn - so it is always worth checking, from time to time, to make sure that the nut is tight.

[Liam]

I'll second double checking the nut...

 

We initially took the swan neck off to replace the bearing which we thought would resolve the problem, but it didn't... we took the boat to Tim's yard who slipped the boat to do a proper job. The problem was down to the actual rudder shaft being a bit wobbly! When he went to undo the nut it was already loose and could be removed by hand easily.

 

Ours was on a woodruff key, so had to come straight off, which was a pain which involved lifting the whole thing up by the rudder blade, and then banging it down onto the counter to try and free it. It did work in the engine and now, with everything put back and tightened up nicely it works a treat, no more really annoying rubbing and clunking.

[freedom]

Just to cheer you up, it took me over two days trying to get mine off last year. Started with WD40 and penetrating oil, then moved onto a big hammer. Next was a blow lamp and a bigger hammer, then came the oxy acetylene. In the end I cut the cup in half with a disk cutter! Half came off but the other half with the swan neck attached still required a few good thumps with the big hammer. And all this was just to replace the warstock bearing. I have now welded two lugs on either half of the cup, drilled holes through them and use two stainless nuts and bolts to clamp the cup together over the rudder stem. Hopefully the next time I take it off it’s just a case of removing bolts and splitting the cup. Another reason I resorted to this solution was the thought that if I ever had to leave the boat unattended for any length of time I could easily remove the swan neck for added security (i.e. it’s hard to steer a boat without a rudder).

Took me a week! with the same tools. had to drill out the grubscrews, take the top of the shaft off with a grinder and cut the top in half with a grinder.

was thinking of doing the same with the bolts but didnt have enough shaft left sticking out so i had someone weld the lot back together and onto the stump of the shaft. oh well next time i need to replace the bearing i will have to out of water it and replace the lot!

[Liam]

The mention of the grub screws has reminded me that when everything was replaced, Tim recommended not using the grub screws again and just let everything sit as it should by the power of gravity. We've took his advice and haven't had any problems.

[NB Alnwick]

The mention of the grub screws has reminded me that when everything was replaced, Tim recommended not using the grub screws again and just let everything sit as it should by the power of gravity. We've took his advice and haven't had any problems.

 

Absolutely, if the mating parts have been correctly machined with the right taper, nothing else is necessary other that the big spanner to keep the nut nice and tight.

[mrsmelly]

It isn't always difficult, mine came loose when I was steering hard round a right hand bend, going up-river against a strong flow, on the River Cherwell section of the Oxford Canal north of Thrupp. Fortunately it only moved about ten degrees but it was a tad scary

 

When I eventually stopped, straightened it, and got the big spanner on the nut, I was able to tighten it just over half a turn - so it is always worth checking, from time to time, to make sure that the nut is tight.

 

Hi

 

A tad scary !! if it had happened to you rounding Trent falls youd have had brown underpants.............

[Neil@CanalVoyagers]

I'm gonna be the pedant this time, and mention that it's called a ram's head and not a swan's neck, even though I understand the logical association of the name with the shape. The swan's neck is the ropework on the back of the butty 'ellum.

 

We take ours off every year for a lick of paint, in fact I've only just put it back on after having it in the shed for two months (didn't take that long to spruce up, it just sat there out of the weather for a bit and I didn't get a round tuit). As it is removed each year, it comes off the taper with a gentle couple of taps with a rubber mallet. Generally, I check the 'top bolt' every week or so, but very rarely have to give it much of a tighten.

[Proper Job]

Hi

 

A tad scary !! if it had happened to you rounding Trent falls youd have had brown underpants.............

Come on Tim - you know that there's no worse place than the cement works bends on the Cherwell . Unless of course your trying the bends below Buscot in flood conditions (but thats only brown trousers for someone coming up!)

[Timleech]

I'm gonna be the pedant this time, and mention that it's called a ram's head and not a swan's neck, even though I understand the logical association of the name with the shape. The swan's neck is the ropework on the back of the butty 'ellum.

 

I was biting my tongue quietly this time, I've raised it before

 

Tim

[carlt]

Whilton Marina's glossary:

"Swans neck = The S shaped steel bar welded to the rudder post to which the tiller bar is fitted (the brass shinny stick with a wooden handle on the end) on a motor boat."

 

MDA's:

"swan's neck

This refers to either a Z shaped metal bar fitted to the top of the rudder stock of a motor narrow boat to which the tiller bar is fastened or, on a butty boat, the ropework running from the top of the tiller to the top end of the rudder"

 

Braunston Marina's:

"swan’s neck

Name for the curved, ‘S’-shaped steel bar that connects the top of the rudder to the tiller."

 

Malcom Bull's (who?):

"Swan's neck

A curved bar at the stern of a canal boat "

 

 

Neath and Tennant Canals Trust"

"Swan's neck - The motor's steel tiller without the detachable section."

 

Liam's:

"Swan’s Neck

Ornamental rope work on a butty, connecting the rudder blade with the top of the rudder post or ram’s head"

 

So the first correct definition, going down Google's favourites is Liam's (show off).

 

Whilst agreeing that the definition is incorrect, it does appear to have replaced the correct, traditional name and who knows what the first builder called it though I, personally, favour "steery bit".

[magpie patrick]

I'm gonna be the pedant this time, and mention that it's called a ram's head and not a swan's neck, even though I understand the logical association of the name with the shape. The swan's neck is the ropework on the back of the butty 'ellum.

 

And I'm going to be the modern linguist and point out that language is dynamic and evolving. It may have been called the Ram's head by the old working boatman, carrying the name on from the old horsedrawn wooden rudder stock that you slotted the tiller into. The term in general use now is swan's neck.

 

But then, I go down the Tame Valley Canal, not the bottom road, it's Birmingham not Brummagem, I l know where the Montgomery Canal and the Llangollen (would you like to find either in Bradshaw 1904?) and my boat was purpose built for pleasure cruising.

[Timleech]

And I'm going to be the modern linguist and point out that language is dynamic and evolving. It may have been called the Ram's head by the old working boatman, carrying the name on from the old horsedrawn wooden rudder stock that you slotted the tiller into. The term in general use now is swan's neck.

 

But then, I go down the Tame Valley Canal, not the bottom road, it's Birmingham not Brummagem, I l know where the Montgomery Canal and the Llangollen (would you like to find either in Bradshaw 1904?) and my boat was purpose built for pleasure cruising.

 

And I'm going to be the old fart/traditionalist who learned his boating vocabulary in the 1960s, partly from working boatmen, and I'll always use the terms I learned then and feel that others are 'wrong'. Just like I get annoyed by the creeping (galloping?) Americanisation of our language

 

Tim

[johnthebridge]

And I'm going to be the old fart/traditionalist who learned his boating vocabulary in the 1960s, partly from working boatmen, and I'll always use the terms I learned then and feel that others are 'wrong'. Just like I get annoyed by the creeping (galloping?) Americanisation of our language

 

Tim

 

Another old fart agrees with you wholeheartedly.

[FadeToScarlet]

The quickest way to remove the swan neck is to let the boat come up in one of the Calder and Hebble locks with the tiller under the walkway of the bottom gates. I know - I have seen an expert do it!

 

That is pretty quick, but my way is quicker...

 

I suggest breasting up to a friend's boat, on the Nene, heading downstream on near flood conditions. Find a suitably narrow fast-flowing bit of river, steer accidentally into overhanging trees, and the tiller will get caught on an overhanging branch and snap off neatly at the bottom.

 

Please note: Retrieving the tiller after this has been removed is somewhat harder and may involve climbing creaking trees over a flooded river......