Report Unlicensed Boats!

[chris w]

I was about to log on to the site and enter my own index number to check, and then I wondered whether doing that just might trigger an alert to BW. Maybe everyone who has checked their own boat, has just told BW that they are committing the offence of not displaying their licence. Perhaps the inspectors will soon arrive, to verify that the licence has now been re-displayed and to present the penalty notice for the date when it was reported?

 

I wondered the same thing Allan, so I entered your number instead, just to try the system. Don't worry.... you are licensed apparently

 

Chris

[US Marines]

I've always wondered where the term bleeding hearts comes from... My dad is a Daily Express reader, and he uses such terms.... Where is it derived from?

Wiki says:

 

Etymology: Probably from the expression "my heart bleeds for you".

 

But its anybody's guess whether this is right or not !

[chris w]

'reaching high up the corporate ladder' isn't as important to some people as it obviously was to you !

 

Well the guy who posted earlier clearly resented that others had made it and he hadn't............... QED

 

You are advocating anarchy. Do your arguments also go for shoplifters who can not "afford" food? How about applying them to druggies who break into your boat/home because they need drugs and can not afford them? If you live on a boat then to some degree it is your choice. It sounds hard but if you can not afford the pay the dues that living on a boat entails then try a tent or cardboard box as many do - you might even be given free soup then!

 

I found the last sentence hard to write, but until we get a socialist government that addresses social issues that is a statement of the unfortunate truth.

 

Well said Tony (apart from the bit about wanting a socialist government )

 

Chris

[carlt]

Have you actually thought this through?

 

One of BW's income streams is licencing.

 

Every (paying) boater has a vested interest in seeing BW maximise the number of their fellow boaters who pay for their licence.

 

More collection = more money to spend on the waterways.

 

Now, we could, of course take the attitude that it is BW's job to do this. But to what end do we take this view? How does it benefit us as boaters for BW to spend more money on spotting evaders when the job could be done more cheaply (leaving more to spend on canals) by willing volunteers

 

The bleeding hearts need not worry. They can salve their conscience by having nothing to do with this. There will be plenty of others who do take part.

It surprises me that you don't understand the principles of public sector budget allocation, Dave.

 

Every penny saved will be removed from the money given by Central government.

 

Not one extra penny will be spent on maintenance.

 

And I wonder how many whitecaps' wages went to the consultants who designed and set up the snitch site.

 

As I said before, 10 patrol officers should be capable of enforcing the whole network, but they don't.

[John Orentas]

Have you actually thought this through?

One of BW's income streams is licencing.

Every (paying) boater has a vested interest in seeing BW maximise the number of their fellow boaters who pay for their licence.

 

There may well be a place for volunteers to take on certain tasks on the canals but this is not one of them.

[Tomska]

The bleeding hearts need not worry. They can salve their conscience by having nothing to do with this. There will be plenty of others who do take part.

 

I'm afraid you're right. There's no shortage of pondscum on the waterways with nothing better to do than poke their noses into their neighbour's business.

 

More's the pity...

Edited October 16, 2008 by Tomska

[Tony Brooks]

Tony, I think you're a top chap. But with respect, this is bollocks and beneath you.

 

 

Please read the rest of the post.

 

In this country, by and large, you are expected to pay for most if not all of the necessities of life. We even have a social security system that advertises itself as allowing those who are unable to pay to do so. Unfortunately there are big holes in it which are not being addressed. I think we have been told that someone living on a boat without a postal address can not claim benefit. If this is so the gap needs plugging so they can claim. It seems than many people genuinely can not afford to even rent a home and initially find a boat a cheap way of getting some form of accommodation - and the find there are more costs than they thought and if the bit about no address is correct they find they have removed themselves from the social security system. I also find it appalling that those who need treatment for the whole range of addictions seem unable to access it easily. It is this sort of thing that needs addressing so that those who can not afford their license, BSS inspection and mandatory insurance have them paid from public funds.

 

Once again (just as with the DEFRA affair and the extra expenditure on floods) BW are being expected to pick up the tab for things that (I would say) should be a draw on national and local government.

 

There are two groups of people who make a direct contribution to BWs budget. they are the boaters who pay and the fishermen who pay. I simply do not see how anyone in those groups who do not pay (for whatever reason) should think conduct is acceptable - basically its theft - and its hardly surprising if people get upset about it. However unpalatable there are alternatives to living on a boat - that is a fact, not something I have made up. Please do not get upset because I state facts that may be disagreeable. I want the people charged with providing for the less well off to do what they are charged to do. If that is done this problem goes away except for the few who will take some kind of delight in defying the rules and refusing to display their (paid for by benefits) license.

 

Over this summer I noticed a vast increase in the number of APPARENTLY unlicensed boats, boats that probably required a mooring permit but were declining to display them and ad hoc online mooring sites. To be honest the sheer number of such sites spoilt much of my holiday, not because I want to speed along but I want to run at speed than minimises vibrations and noise and gives optimum easy steering. Until these things area addressed in a way that provides solutions instead of just shifting burdens onto individual groups (paying boater's, non-paying boaters, yes even BW) the problem can not be solved.

 

I think the "snitch list" is just BW trying to show boaters that it is doing something and I doubt BW will do anything more with the reports than they seem to do with incident or broken equipment reports. Personally I can not be bothered to give it credibility.

[fuzzyduck]

I was about to log on to the site and enter my own index number to check, and then I wondered whether doing that just might trigger an alert to BW. Maybe everyone who has checked their own boat, has just told BW that they are committing the offence of not displaying their licence. Perhaps the inspectors will soon arrive, to verify that the licence has now been re-displayed and to present the penalty notice for the date when it was reported?

 

Not to worry I've already done your index number. I've also done my own, and I'm happy to report that I have a licence. If anyone else would like to, my index number is 112095

Edited October 16, 2008 by fuzzyduck

[chris w]

No need to go on the defensive Tony. Loads and loads of us agree with your every word.

 

I would hang the licence dodgers personally but my friend Ghengis is too soft.

 

Chris

 

Not to worry I've already done your index number. I've also done my own, and I'm happy to report that I have a license.

 

Hopefully you have a licence

[US Marines]

Well the guy who posted earlier clearly resented that others had made it and he hadn't............... QED

Well there you go you see, because I don't think that his post does indicate that he clearly resents the fact that others made it but he didn't.

 

When I read his post, I consider it most likely that he is referring to a particular type of senior executive, i.e. the 'fat cat' whose rewards far exceed their apparent responsibilities, and, although rare, I know from my own personal experience, they do still exist out there.

 

Even if you are right though, it doesn't warrant a personal attack from you and it might even be understandable to you if you read his whole post. I quote :

 

"i worked for 18 years at the shop before being made redundant and hopefully will work again though at 50 i am finding that difficult,why do i want to work,because it gives you a better level of living than on benefits and gives you a good feeling of worth,i merely state that i do not find the thought that others are existing on benefits annoying, i do however find over payed people who polish there backsides on the chairs in there offices and vote themselves big bonuses annoying."

(Sorry Mr Wolf - we're talking about you as if you're not in the room here !)

 

And - this is now way

 

[Chertsey]

I'm not here to defend BW - only to pass this on to you, but I find this response puzzling. Are you happy to pay your licence and then see other people trying to get away with paying nothing? It's theft and they are stealing from BW and from other boaters.

 

I seem to recall hearing lots of people over the last few years complaining that BW was doing nothing about all the unlicensed boats and continuous moorers. Now people are complaining that BW is doing something about it!

 

If someone sees a boat that seems to be unlicensed they can find out if it is or not. If it bothers them that the boat is unlicensed they can get something done about it. If it doesn't bother them, then they don't have to.

Well I haven't read the whole thread yet, but my point here was not that they're doing something about it but precisely the opposite - that they're asking us, licence payers, the ones who are paying for their services, to do something about it!

[Tony Brooks]

No need to go on the defensive Tony. Loads and loads of us agree with your every word.

 

I would hang the licence dodgers personally but my friend Ghengis is too soft.

 

Chris

 

 

 

Hopefully you have a licence

 

 

Not trying to be defensive - just trying to point out th the main problem is elsewhere and BW are just as impotent to solve it as boaters are.

[Chertsey]

Vigilante action suggests you and your mates going out and sorting the buggers out yourself rather than giving information to BW so that they can deal with it.

 

This is not unique to the towpath, it is encouraged in other walks of life, such as on the Department for Work and Pensions' Report benefit fraud online page. You can report benefit cheats online or via a freephone hotline.

 

Other things you can do online include:

- Report unlicensed vehicles on the public highway

- Report suspect activity to MI5

It's not so much the rights and wrongs of people 'getting away with it'; it's the insidious effect it has on us, being turned into informants against our fellow citizens. It could be argued that this is a slippery slope that it is better not to embark upon. The costs ultimately might well outweigh any benefits.

[Tomska]

I did read the rest of your post Tony, I just think your point is wide of the mark.

 

However unpalatable there are alternatives to living on a boat - that is a fact, not something I have made up. Please do not get upset because I state facts that may be disagreeable.

 

Of course there are. There are a number of alternatives and as you so rightly say, a cardboard box is one of them, as is a tent. You forgot to mention suicide though. That's another popular answer to homelessness. Perhaps more people should take that route - it'd be cheaper all round.

 

I understand and agree with your point that if boats are to be used as social housing, that there should be a system to help pay for that. Where I disagree with you is in the solution. "Try a cardboard box" is not a solution I would advocate.

[chris w]

Well there you go you see, because I don't think that his post does indicate that he clearly resents the fact that others made it but he didn't.

 

When I read his post, I consider it most likely that he is referring to a particular type of senior executive, i.e. the 'fat cat' whose rewards far exceed their apparent responsibilities, and, although rare, I know from my own personal experience, they do still exist out there.

 

Even if you are right though, it doesn't warrant a personal attack from you and it might even be understandable to you if you read his whole post. I quote :

 

"i worked for 18 years at the shop before being made redundant and hopefully will work again though at 50 i am finding that difficult,why do i want to work,because it gives you a better level of living than on benefits and gives you a good feeling of worth,i merely state that i do not find the thought that others are existing on benefits annoying, i do however find over payed people who polish there backsides on the chairs in there offices and vote themselves big bonuses annoying."

(Sorry Mr Wolf - we're talking about you as if you're not in the room here !)

 

And - this is now way

 

 

Well if he got made redundant after 18 years, he probably wasn't any good at his job and so that's why he now resents those to whom he referred in his post who seem to be more successful.

 

This psychology stuff is easy.

 

Chris

[Chertsey]

Methinks this new part of thier website is a way of shutting up (and keeping occupied) those who moan and curtain twitch about (what they percieve to be) unlicensed boats.

In which case it's a splendid idea, especially if it's giving out false information. But I suspect the phones will be inundated all the more with people incensed because they've checked it on the website and still nothing has been done.

[n.b.Goldie]

I must add to this debate that having been involved in boating for some 20 years and having been a license paying live-aboard for some 8 years I am sick of seeing scroungers living off those of us who pay our way. BW know full well who the scroungers are in many cases for some reason choose to take no action. However, we now seem to have a rule that if we who pay our licenses are for some reason late with paying we will receive a £180 fine! So it seems BW are choosing to go after the soft targets.

 

If however BW are regularly inundated with reports of the the same index numbers followed by complaints about their inaction they might DO SOMETHING!

 

Prices of licenses and moorings are rising relentlessly we should not allow revenue dodgers to get away with it cos WE PAY FOR THEM!

 

This issue is going to get bigger given that our canals are getting more crowded every year... Boats are being made faster than canals are being restored.

[Hobbler]

That's weird, I've seen Licenses appearing on BW boats, and some (I'd swear) that were valid for more than 12 months.

 

Hold on a mo, are they also saying there they don't have BSSs either?

 

The old Bw fleet has to comply with the Bss regulations the same as everyone else , I dont know however if the new boats had to have the same paperwork as a new build private craft .

 

As far as I know licence discs are still not required for Bw boats - perhaps the ones you have seen showing a disc are ones which have been sold off .

[Chertsey]

Well there you go you see, because I don't think that his post does indicate that he clearly resents the fact that others made it but he didn't.

 

When I read his post, I consider it most likely that he is referring to a particular type of senior executive, i.e. the 'fat cat' whose rewards far exceed their apparent responsibilities, and, although rare, I know from my own personal experience, they do still exist out there.

 

Even if you are right though, it doesn't warrant a personal attack from you and it might even be understandable to you if you read his whole post. I quote :

 

 

And - this is now way

 

 

Don't worry about Chris W, he's always telling us about how successful he is. Apparently he's very attractive to women too. And everyone else is jealous.

[US Marines]

Well if he got made redundant after 18 years, he probably wasn't any good at his job and so that's why he now resents those to whom he referred in his post who seem to be more successful.

 

This psychology stuff is easy.

 

Chris

 

Yes it is - and we all now know the type of person you are - not a smiley in sight and yet he is a real person.

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2008 by US Marines

[homer2911]

[

 

I do despise snivelling snitches, though - I always have. Sneaking on your neighbour for some perceived transgression is entirely dishonourable in my book, but then the world will always have its mean-spirited, curtain-twitching Victor Meldrews.

 

 

 

Hmmm. A question of degree, surely. Would you refuse to "snitch" on a paedophile? An arsonist? A neighbour harassing another, perhaps vulnerable, neighbour? Would someone doing this be public-spirited, or would they too be mean-spirited? And what if it was your child or grandmother being targeted, or your boat being burned - would that change your opinion?

 

Yes, I know this argument isn't about those extremes. But many of the arguments are equally skewed. Not all those claiming benefits are honest, hard-working people who happen to have come on hard times. Nor are they all people who have had a poor start in life. Some are just plain lazy and are laughing at the rest for providing for them.

 

I'm not sure I'll be reporting anyone though. If people want to live outside, or on the margins of the rat race of "normal" society, then that's their choice. I don't really care if they don't pay taxes either - but if they do this and make no contribution (however small and in whatever way) then they shouldn't claim benefits.

 

Benefit scrounger = a thief of resoures available to genuinely needy people

Non-licence payer = a thief of BW's resources

 

A thief is a thief, and If I see a thief, I'll report him - end of.

[chris w]

Apparently he's very attractive to women too.

 

Shucks Mum, you're embarrassing me

[alan_fincher]

Bw don't even need to do that though do they? They already have all the numbers, they already have the database, they already have the software therefore they already know who is unlicensed.

 

Methinks this new part of thier website is a way of shutting up (and keeping occupied) those who moan and curtain twitch about (what they percieve to be) unlicensed boats.

Spot on!

 

Exactly what I was trying to say in post 13.

 

(Just you have shown me up as being over verbose..... )

[US Marines]

Don't worry about Chris W, he's always telling us about how successful he is. Apparently he's very attractive to women too. And everyone else is jealous.

 

Thanks WarriorWoman,

 

I'm not worried about him - just worried for him...

 

Occasionally we see glimpses of the half-decent member of society trapped in there, but they are fleeting, and achieving any kind of significant improvement is going to be a long hard road for him, it seems.....

 

Oh well, I do hope he perseveres with his treatments though....those little blue pills really are quite effective....

 

[Bones]

This psychology stuff is easy.

 

Chris

 

 

to an amateur!