How many people allowed on what size boat?

[jakey]

Question : How many people allowed on what size boat?

 

Hi Is there any general rule here? I mean can one load up a 20' boat with ten people hanging off the roof and at either end? I would hate to get dirty looks from seasoned boaters if I were to attempt that

I guess there a weight restriction per boat in KG? based on when the boat is totally empty ie. no kettles or plates on board?

Cheers

Newby.

[Liam]

Not sure on the exact amount but 10 people for a 20ft boat is far too much!

 

With new boats, I think it's specified in the RCD.

[Gary Peacock]

The makers plate will dictate the total number of passengers the craft is intended for, if you exceed that and there is an incident the insurers will probably wash their hands of it leaving you with a big problem.

[sociable_hermit]

Practicality is just as much of an issue as the paperwork. Too many people and it becomes a nightmare moving around the boat to work locks etc. (never mind getting a beer or going for a pish!). I reckon about one person per 10' of boat is about right, otherwise you'll be treading on each other's toes. And don't forget, if you argue with anyone, there's nowhere to go!!

[John Orentas]

I believe 12 plus crew is the magic figure for private boats, one of the few bits of legislation that has been enacted in the past 20 years.. Above this number and you are into commercial license legislation.

 

Of course as Gary says newer boats fall into the RCD regulations.

[Water Rat.]

Question : How many people allowed on what size boat?

 

 

Yep, 12 it is to be legal, but my boat is 34 ft and have been advised no more than 6 or 8 if very skinny.

[Denis R]

Builder's plate on my 48ft boat says 6 maximum.

[jakey]

ok I read the RCd or whatever and this is what I could find. thanks for your responses all. Ive got a much better idea now - look at the boat plate and also make sure its def less than 12 and follow the guidlines per boat..

 

3.6. Manufacturer's maximum recommended load

 

The manufacturer's maximum recommended load (fuel, water, provisions, miscellaneous equipment and people (in kilograms)) for which the boat was designed shall be determined according to the design category (section 1), stability and freeboard (section 3.2) and buoyancy and flotation (section 3.3).

 

3.2. Stability and freeboard

 

The craft shall have sufficient stability and freeboard considering its design category according to section 1 and the manufacturer's maximum recommended load according to section 3.6.

 

3.3. Buoyancy and flotation

 

The craft shall be constructed to ensure that it has buoyancy characteristics appropriate to its design category according to section 1.1, and the manufacturer's maximum recommended load according to section 3.6. All habitable multihull craft shall be so designed as to have sufficient buoyancy to remain afloat in the inverted position. Boats of less than six metres in length that are susceptible to swamping when used in their design category shall be provided with appropriate means of flotation in the swamped condition.

 

2.2. Builder's plate

 

Each craft shall carry a permanently affixed plate mounted separately from the boat hull identification number, containing the following information:

 

- manufacturer's name,

- CE marking (see Annex IV),[14]

- boat design category according to section 1,

- manufacturer's maximum recommended load derived from section 3.6 excluding the weight of the contents of the fixed tanks when full,

- number of persons recommended by the manufacturer for which the boat was designed to carry when under way.

[1066]

I would be inclined to go by the number of berths that the boat has ..... for example, no more than 6 people on a six berth boat, 4 on a 4 berth etc.

 

I am not questioning any of the legalities that have been put forward in the previous posts, just adding my two penn'orth!

[David Schweizer]

As I understand it, the RCD figure relates to the number of people who can safely be accomodated on the boat (ie. sleep overnight.) not the number of people who can legally be carried on it.

 

The Board of Trade (or whatever it is called these days) regulations state that you can carry up to 12 passengers plus up to 2 crew members, before the boat is required to be licenced as a passengwer carrying vessel and the Master needs to hold a Boatmaster's Licence.

 

Not sure whether you could be prosecuted for exceeding the RCD figure, but you can be prosecuted for exceeding the Board of Trade figures, without the neccessary licences.

Edited September 24, 2008 by David Schweizer

[Gary Peacock]

The RCD's number of persons relates directly to the required stability calculations.

 

If you want to do the calculations have a look at this

 

ISO 12217-1 NON-SAILING BOATS OF LENGTH GREATER THAN OR EQUAL TO 6 m

CALCULATION WORKSHEET

 

It's a beauty and this needs to be done and tested for all new boats. (A bit of computer software helps a lot though!)

[David Schweizer]

The RCD's number of persons relates directly to the required stability calculations.

 

If you want to do the calculations have a look at this

 

ISO 12217-1 NON-SAILING BOATS OF LENGTH GREATER THAN OR EQUAL TO 6 m

CALCULATION WORKSHEET

 

It's a beauty and this needs to be done and tested for all new boats. (A bit of computer software helps a lot though!)

 

So how do you get an RCD certificate for a Trip boat carrying 36 people when then formula will apparently not allow that many.

[Gary Peacock]

So how do you get an RCD certificate for a Trip boat carrying 36 people when then formula will apparently not allow that many.

 

A trip boat wouldn't be "Recreational" it would come under the various ministry regulations for a passenger carrying vessel.

 

At the moment I think there is still a loophole in that if no fare is charged then those regulations can't be applied making it possible for various charities to operate boats with very little in the way of safety provisions compared to a business operating on a paid passenger basis.

[gazza]

Practicality is just as much of an issue as the paperwork. Too many people and it becomes a nightmare moving around the boat to work locks etc. (never mind getting a beer or going for a pish!). I reckon about one person per 10' of boat is about right, otherwise you'll be treading on each other's toes. And don't forget, if you argue with anyone, there's nowhere to go!!

 

 

do i have to remove 40 % of a person who intends to travel with me on my 16 foot boat what about the dog???

[Dalesman]

A trip boat wouldn't be "Recreational" it would come under the various ministry regulations for a passenger carrying vessel.

 

At the moment I think there is still a loophole in that if no fare is charged then those regulations can't be applied making it possible for various charities to operate boats with very little in the way of safety provisions compared to a business operating on a paid passenger basis.

There is no loophole..all vessels that carry more than 12 passengers must have a MCA passenger certificate this is not based on if you pay a fare or not. Also ALL passengers must have a seat (18inchs wide) unlike trains. All MCA passenger boats are inspected every year, and on canals a full out of the water inspection every 2 years

Cheers

Dalesman

Edited September 24, 2008 by Dalesman

[Lady Muck]

A trip boat wouldn't be "Recreational" it would come under the various ministry regulations for a passenger carrying vessel.

 

At the moment I think there is still a loophole in that if no fare is charged then those regulations can't be applied making it possible for various charities to operate boats with very little in the way of safety provisions compared to a business operating on a paid passenger basis.

 

No I disagree - they are now very much regulated. Crew have to hold a community boat certificate (from the RYA). They still have to give the same safety talk as a trip boat would do. Having been on a trip boat the other week and before that a community boat I think I'd feel safer on the latter. The ones that I know of do passenger paying trips to raise funds, so they are pretty used to behaving like a trip boat would - they have to!

[LEO]

Hi,

I thought Board of Trade regulations stated that 13 was the magic number.

 

Albi

[Guest TerryL]

Question : How many people allowed on what size boat?

 

Hi Is there any general rule here? I mean can one load up a 20' boat with ten people hanging off the roof and at either end? I would hate to get dirty looks from seasoned boaters if I were to attempt that

I guess there a weight restriction per boat in KG? based on when the boat is totally empty ie. no kettles or plates on board?

Cheers

Newby.

 

No problem for me, got no friends.

[magpie patrick]

We're way off the original posters intentions but in summary

 

for more than 12 passengers regardless of whether they are fare paying or not or whether the bboat is being run as a business or not a whol host of MCA conditions apply, including the requirement for the skipper (who doesn't actually have to steer) to have a boatmaster's certificate of an appropriate level for the vessel.

 

For twelve or fewer passengers there are rather less onerous guidelines, (and that's what they are, not law) but anyone with any sensem, and anyone wanting to be insured, would be wise to follow them. In addition, if the passenegers are fare paying rather than your mates there are other requirements.

 

One difference is that while a boat masters certificate is required for more than twelve passengers, for twelve or less the operator of a passenger vessel where the general public are carried (as opposed to your mates) should satisfy themselves of the skippers competence. A boat masters certificate would be evidence of competence but so would taking the skipper on a trail run and being satisfied with it.

[Big John]

It all seems a bit restrictive. On a boat with 4 berths, does this mean the two of us cannot invite more than two others aboard without becoming uninsured? Surely not?

 

Our RCD plate says

CATAGORY D (sic)

Max 4

Max 460 kg

 

(where is not sic! - but that's the nearest smiley I can find)

 

Do I need to /Should I get the max increased by getting the boatbuilder to recalculate for 6 (say)? If so how much should I expect to pay?

[Jason Wilson and Family]

If you want capacity the rule of thumb I know is ((Length x Width) / (Avg. Passenger Weight / 10))

 

So a say 12ft x 4ft boat could hold roughly 2 250 lb people. Don't forget to compensate for gear.

 

A 20 ft narrowboat could apparently hold up to 1,366 pounds.

[gazza]

the above formula gives 4.48 (16 x 7 / 25) so that would be 4 people a dog and plenty of beer

Edited September 24, 2008 by gazza

[sociable_hermit]

do i have to remove 40 % of a person who intends to travel with me on my 16 foot boat what about the dog???

 

Well the dog counts as the 60%

 

I did say "about"...

Edited September 24, 2008 by sociable_hermit

[gazza]

as a certain mr everet used to say 'its all in the best possible taste'

[sociable_hermit]

As others have said, the best thing about these vague calculations is that they allow plenty of opportunity for fine tuning the trim using beer

Edited September 24, 2008 by sociable_hermit