Wood vs steel

[duztee]

Hi,

With the cost of steel rising rapidly, I would be interested to know how much it would cost to build a new wooden boat, and if indeed there is anyone left with the knowledge to do so.

Secondly, is the cost of steel, wood and all the other things that go to make a boat rising faster than I am earning? would it be a better option to buy a shell now and leave it sitting around for a couple of years while I continue to work to earn the money to fit out, or wait until I have the funds and plenty of free time.

Duztee

[grahoom]

is the cost of steel, wood and all the other things that go to make a boat rising faster than I am earning? would it be a better option to buy a shell now and leave it sitting around for a couple of years while I continue to work to earn the money to fit out, or wait until I have the funds and plenty of free time.

Duztee

 

what about buying second hand? - there are a hell of a lot of second hand steel boats out there.

[alan_fincher]

These people would no doubt build you a wooden boat from scratch.

 

But I'm sure it's a case of "if you need to ask the price, you can't afford it".

 

But, as Grahoom says, there are some really cheap boats out there.

 

Why not buy someone else's failed or uncompleted project. You will get a recent shell and engine at far less than new sailaway prices, and may even chose to retain some of their work, if not too poor.

 

Alan

 

EDIT:

 

Whoops, I left out the link to Bates Boatyard, but I see Carl has now provided it.

 

(Not for the squeamish - Bate's yard at Puttenham is a lot less picturesque than those boats owned by the WCBS! )

Edited September 16, 2008 by alan_fincher

[carlt]

Jem Bates was commissioned to build "maid of oak" recently and I believe the price was comparable to a bespoke steel boat.

 

Maid of Oak

 

Bates Boatyard

 

Wooden boats are being built all the time, on the coast, though most of them aren't as crude as the wooden narrow boat.

 

The building of a wooden narrow boat hull, using traditional work boat methods is simple, in comparison to building a proper shaped boat. It is the fitting out, to a standard expected by someone choosing a superior hull material, that is the difficult bit.

 

I certainly wouldn't have a boat fitted out by 90% of the boat fitters out there.

[Chris Pink]

Jem Bates was commissioned to build "maid of oak" recently and I believe the price was comparable to a bespoke steel boat.

 

want one, want one want one.....

 

 

sob.

[Tim Lewis]

Jem Bates was commissioned to build "maid of oak" recently and I believe the price was comparable to a bespoke steel boat.

 

<Snip>

 

I seem to recall from a review of this boat that the owner (Who I think had some connection with the builder) refused point blank to say haow much it cost.

 

Tim

[carlt]

I seem to recall from a review of this boat that the owner (Who I think had some connection with the builder) refused point blank to say haow much it cost.

 

Tim

That is true.

[alan_fincher]

My understanding is "very expensive indeed", and no way "comparable to a steel boat".

 

But I would genuinely like to know.

 

That said "Maid of Oak" is a very odd boat, (in my eyes).

 

It's (otherwise wooden) cabin is sheathed in metal, and low hull sides and tall cabin give it an unbalanced appearance.

 

It has odd engine arrangements, I think, with everything hydraulic, (doesn't it have bow thrusters ?).

 

I know it doesn't claim to look like a traditional boat, and it certainly doesn't.

 

I'd like to see something they have done that is slightly more conventional, (and know the price!).

 

Good someone is practicing the skills, though.

[carlt]

Personally, I don't like "Maid of Oak" at all and I think the sheathed cabin is a real shame.

 

I will sit down and work what I'd charge to build a wooden narrow boat. It would be top end of the steel market. I'm sure, but not outrageously out of reach.

 

If you wanted something approaching a Walton boat, of the 60's/70's, however, I would expect it to be priced mid-range. As steel prices get higher and incentives to use sustainable materials increase, I believe this would become economically viable, too.

[Malarky]

The problem is finding the quality air dried wood to do it, and waiting for it. An old wooden boat will have valuable(for the construction) well seasoned wood in it, but it takes a log time to either break it or restore it. If you are realy serious I could possibly arrange to build you one, but this would involve useing reclaimed wood, from narrow boats, with the new, as it can be trusted to stay true,and I just would'nt be able to guarantee new wood to do so. So still we wouldn't know how much it would cost!

[carlt]

The problem is finding the quality air dried wood to do it, and waiting for it. An old wooden boat will have valuable(for the construction) well seasoned wood in it, but it takes a log time to either break it or restore it. If you are realy serious I could possibly arrange to build you one, but this would involve useing reclaimed wood, from narrow boats, with the new, as it can be trusted to stay true,and I just would'nt be able to guarantee new wood to do so. So still we wouldn't know how much it would cost!

You would end up with a severely weakened boat, using timbers reclaimed from narrow boats.

 

Would you peg every ramper hole, before repiloting, for new spikes?

 

So much metalwork has to come out of old planks that you're left with 50 year old plus swiss cheese.

 

Decent air dried wood, at a reasonable price, is definitely out there, I buy it all the time. Using wood out of derelict boats, for anything other than garden furniture, is folly.

 

About £110,000 is what I'd charge, btw, but much less for an unfitted shell.

 

And no, I don't want the job.

[duztee]

thank you for the offer Malarky,

But No it was not a seriously considered option, I was assuming the sheer amount of work involved in constructing a wooden boat would have made the cost prohibitive at todays cost of labour, quite apart from difficulty in sourcing the required quantity of suitable wood.

But I agree with the others that IF I could afford such a luxury as a wooden boat it would not be built along the lines of 'Maid of Oak'

Duztee

[Malarky]

This is generally the case, but I've seen some of the wood that has been collected by Ian(mentioned in another thread somewhere) and it seems fine! I'm just superstisious about new wood. I reckoned about £140.000 fully fitted.

[tidal]

But who, except a masochist .......... foolishly rich man ........ brave and passionate traditionalist (sorry Carl) would want a wooden boat for fresh water use long-term?

[carlt]

But who, except a masochist .......... foolishly rich man ........ brave and passionate traditionalist (sorry Carl) would want a wooden boat for fresh water use long-term?

Not me!

 

I've said it before....I won't be inflicting fresh water on any of my boats again, apart from my trailables.

 

Though I am sorely tempted by the little broads cruiser on ebay, atm.

[Chris Pink]

But who, except a masochist .......... foolishly rich man ........ brave and passionate traditionalist (sorry Carl) would want a wooden boat for fresh water use long-term?

 

the Grand Union Canal Carrying Company.

[saltysplash]

But who, except a masochist .......... foolishly rich man ........ brave and passionate traditionalist (sorry Carl) would want a wooden boat for fresh water use long-term?

 

 

Too true.....keep wood on salt, plastic for fresh

[Kez]

But who, except a masochist .......... foolishly rich man ........ brave and passionate traditionalist (sorry Carl) would want a wooden boat for fresh water use long-term?

 

I have never lived in a house, as i was born on my wooden boat (17 years ago before anyone comes out with any snide age remarks) and i wouldnt trade her in for a steel boat for love nor money. yes its more expensive to renew it, as we're rebuilding the bow now at malkins bank, but that bow has lasted 70 years. id like to see a steel boat do that

[Malarky]

I have never lived in a house, as i was born on my wooden boat (17 years ago before anyone comes out with any snide age remarks) and i wouldnt trade her in for a steel boat for love nor money. yes its more expensive to renew it, as we're rebuilding the bow now at malkins bank, but that bow has lasted 70 years. id like to see a steel boat do that

The steel of today is so poor that, when you take into account environmental factors, wood wins! I't just is'nt getting it's foot in the door.

 

What "went" on your bow, and how's the counter bearing up?

[RLWP]

we're rebuilding the bow now at malkins bank, but that bow has lasted 70 years. id like to see a steel boat do that

 

 

How about this then? 1935

 

Richard

Edited September 19, 2008 by RLWP

[Tim Lewis]

I have never lived in a house, as i was born on my wooden boat (17 years ago before anyone comes out with any snide age remarks) and i wouldnt trade her in for a steel boat for love nor money. yes its more expensive to renew it, as we're rebuilding the bow now at malkins bank, but that bow has lasted 70 years. id like to see a steel boat do that

 

The bow of my (Steel) boat is 71 years old!

 

Tim

[Kez]

The bow of my (Steel) boat is 71 years old!

 

Tim

but has yours been looked after all its life? ours hasnt, the poor old girl was a hire boat (and still bears the scars, truth be told)

 

The bow of my (Steel) boat is 71 years old!

 

Tim

ok i hold my hands up, there are steel bows out there that last 70+ years! but that just says that wood lasts just as well as steel. i still wouldnt trade her in in for steel though...

[tidal]

Don't get me wrong I love wooden boats, have done all my life but, maybe due to age, I got tired of caulking, rot, and all the other continuous maintenance required, especially on fresh water.

 

Yes I know ALL boats need continuous maintenance but wood, expecially on fresh water, needs a higher level than other materials.

You do have to be truly passionate to put up with the accept the demands on your time and patience that wood requires to keep it in good order.

I have the same problem with steel on salt water btw

 

And yes, I was speaking as one who was for a long time described as " a masochist .......... foolishly rich man ........ brave and passionate traditionalist "

 

As a result, were it not for the "contact sport" mentality of some of the narrowboat fraternity and, from very recent experince, the way that the bows these steel tubes seem to be attracted to the sides of grp boats I would be going down that route not steel or wood.

 

However seeing as "playing dodgems" appears to be the order of the day I want something I can join in with.

 

So much so that I am considering having reinforced bows and sides fitted

 

And possibly a ramming spike