refilling gas bottles

[oldade]

Hi

Now that a few garages sell LPG can we refill our bottles at a garage ?

Will the garage let us ?

Is the gas the same ?

Has anyone tryed it ?

I have done the maths it is chaper at the mo.

13KG bottle holds 16 Lts

If it is 40p per Lt that is £10.40

If are paying around £18.00 that does save us money.

I have seen fittings for sale that will fit both the garage pump and the Propane bottle for £25.00

After you have filled 4 gas bottles you will be saving money.

 

You could even do it when you fill the car up.

 

What do we think ?

[pearley]

There is something about this under the Boat Safety Scheme. From memory there is only one make of bottle they approve.

[Malarky]

Hi

Now that a few garages sell LPG can we refill our bottles at a garage ?

Will the garage let us ?

Is the gas the same ?

Has anyone tryed it ?

I have done the maths it is chaper at the mo.

13KG bottle holds 16 Lts

If it is 40p per Lt that is £10.40

If are paying around £18.00 that does save us money.

I have seen fittings for sale that will fit both the garage pump and the Propane bottle for £25.00

After you have filled 4 gas bottles you will be saving money.

 

You could even do it when you fill the car up.

 

What do we think ?

 

Sounds great, if there's fittings available surely it works out; is there anyone doing bottles with this sort of caper in mind I wonder.

[John Orentas]

Don't think the idea is really feasible for a DIY job, for one thing it is vital to leave an air gap in the bottle for safety reasons.. Petrol is dangerous enough but any kind of mishap with LPG could easily result in a fire-ball.

 

Having said that, if properly equipped garages can refill cars then I suppose a gas bottle shouldn't present a problem.

 

There may be other technical problems, as LPG is sold by weight some fairly expensive equipment may be involved so any garage would need a high turnover to make it worthwhile.. And what about delivery to, and storage at the garage....... I think we might be better buying bottles.

[carlt]

Refillable bottles are available (on the continent, at least) but the bottles you already have will have, printed on the side "only to be refilled by Calor (or whoever your supplier is.)"

[Machpoint005]

I'd leave the idea well alone. I have memories of refilled gas bottles when camping abroad 30 years ago, and the unrestricted process is highly dangerous. Too much gas, too much pressure, and BANG! to put it mildly.

 

I think it's worth coughing up for the genuine article, if my nearest and dearest are likely to be involved anywhere.

[ChrisPy]

in theory lpg bottles are not under (any significant) pressure, just the vapour pressure of the liquid. I suppose the tanks fitted in cars are the same, which suggests that the liquid 'gas' is just decanted rather than pumped in under pressure. Does anybody know for sure?

 

 

 

............. thus speaks a man whose latest product, the BTC pipeline in Turkey which carries 1% of the world's oil production, is currently burning after an explosion (but I believe the PKK terrorists have taken the blame........... )

[Oliver1954]

Refillable bottles are available (on the continent, at least) but the bottles you already have will have, printed on the side "only to be refilled by Calor (or whoever your supplier is.)"

 

 

Refillable bottles are available here in the UK, there is the initial cost of purchasing the bottles, then from there you most certainly can make great savings on refilling your bottles!

 

Only question is (and it's a BIG one) how does this fit with Boat Safety Regs and Requirements?

 

Reference: http://www.gasrefill.com/Boats_and_watercraft.html

[Rob@BSSOffice]

in theory lpg bottles are not under (any significant) pressure, just the vapour pressure of the liquid. I suppose the tanks fitted in cars are the same, which suggests that the liquid 'gas' is just decanted rather than pumped in under pressure. Does anybody know for sure?

 

 

 

............. thus speaks a man whose latest product, the BTC pipeline in Turkey which carries 1% of the world's oil production, is currently burning after an explosion (but I believe the PKK terrorists have taken the blame........... )

 

 

The liquid propane and butane is contained under pressure, thus keeping it as a liquid until it passes the regulator. If gas cylinders are filled above 80%, there a significant risk that if the ambient temperature rises, the liquid fuel will pass the regulator and exit out of any open valve. If lit at the time you can expect a very spectacular flame, if not lit, eg just turned on before ignition, the liquid will exit out of the burner jet and then start to evaporate. This could then create a flamable vapour of around 250 times the volume of the escaped liquid fuel which has the potential for a reasonably significant pop depending on the amount of liquid spilling out!

 

We have instructed any examiner finding a refillable cylinder without the 80% safety stop facility to cease the examination and walk away for his/her own safety.

 

Our statement on this is here http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/downloads/...snostopfill.pdf

 

By way of clarification, this does not affect gas cylinders such as Calor Lite which are exchangable containers refilled by competent operatives at recognised sites.

 

HTH

Rob@BSSOffice

[Justme]

I thought the 1kg weight of gas was 2 liters ish so that would affect the calcs.

 

from wiki HERE

 

Liquid Propane Weight

This site: http://www.pmak.org/public/propane_facts.html states the following:

 

The specific gravity of propane liquid is 0.504; water is 1.

 

Therefore 1 litre of propane weighs 0.504kg. (1 litre of water weighs 1kg)

 

so 13kg x 0.504 = 25.8L

 

The car lpg also has road fund tax on it so the bottles should be cheaper (also backed up by "some" that buy bottled gas & run the car of it as its cheaper.

 

Justme

Edited August 6, 2008 by Justme

[sueb]

There is lots of info on refillable gas on the motor home sites. Many motorhomes run on it as well as using it for heating cooking etc.

Sue

[Ally]

The liquid propane and butane is contained under pressure, thus keeping it as a liquid until it passes the regulator. If gas cylinders are filled above 80%, there a significant risk that if the ambient temperature rises, the liquid fuel will pass the regulator and exit out of any open valve. If lit at the time you can expect a very spectacular flame, if not lit, eg just turned on before ignition, the liquid will exit out of the burner jet and then start to evaporate. This could then create a flamable vapour of around 250 times the volume of the escaped liquid fuel which has the potential for a reasonably significant pop depending on the amount of liquid spilling out!

 

We have instructed any examiner finding a refillable cylinder without the 80% safety stop facility to cease the examination and walk away for his/her own safety.

 

Our statement on this is here http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/downloads/...snostopfill.pdf

 

By way of clarification, this does not affect gas cylinders such as Calor Lite which are exchangable containers refilled by competent operatives at recognised sites.

 

HTH

Rob@BSSOffice

 

This is here for a reason! Is it really worth the risk to you, yours and your beloved boat??

[Malarky]

Seems on reading various comments that it would only be really safe from possible leaks if the gas outlets are higher than that on the bottle; a bit of a challenge to your average narrowboat, concidering the drain holes for the gas locker. Possibly, could the bottle could go in a recess in the side just above the baseplate completely underwater? Or even in the bow, as a kind of incentive to other boats to prioritise your right of passage!

[NBMike]

Seems on reading various comments that it would only be really safe from possible leaks if the gas outlets are higher than that on the bottle; a bit of a challenge to your average narrowboat, concidering the drain holes for the gas locker. Possibly, could the bottle could go in a recess in the side just above the baseplate completely underwater? Or even in the bow, as a kind of incentive to other boats to prioritise your right of passage!

I had to do a Landlords check on a house with a buried propane tank in the garden. When I opened the hatch I found the 'bilge' pump had failed and the tank and all controls were under water. Good for checking for leaks I suppose.

[Batavia]

in theory lpg bottles are not under (any significant) pressure, just the vapour pressure of the liquid. I suppose the tanks fitted in cars are the same, which suggests that the liquid 'gas' is just decanted rather than pumped in under pressure. Does anybody know for sure?

 

 

The pressure inside the cylinder will indeed be the vapour pressure of Propane at the relevant temperature. From memory, this is about 7 barg for Propane at 20 deg C (and rises very rapidly as the temperature increases). Depending on what you are accustomed to working with, this is either a little or a lot of pressure.

 

Chris G

(whose last pipeline project has not caught fire/exploded - yet)

[ChrisPy]

The pressure inside the cylinder will indeed be the vapour pressure of Propane at the relevant temperature. From memory, this is about 7 barg for Propane at 20 deg C (and rises very rapidly as the temperature increases). Depending on what you are accustomed to working with, this is either a little or a lot of pressure.

 

Chris G

(whose last pipeline project has not caught fire/exploded - yet)

 

 

you can have Daedalus no.1 'coz I'm now Slithy Tove ...............