Vandals destroy Charity Boat

[carlt]

Carlt - I don't know if you are having a go at me or being ironic but my parents would not allow me or my sisters to watch tv when we were young. Having no tv IS an option regardless of when it was invented.

Why would I be having a go? How would I know what your childhood tv viewing arrangements were?

 

Of course, living in such an authoritarian environment might have turned some kids to a life of crime.

[Hobbler]

Not much of an update on my original post but one of the guys from the charity came into the yard and borrowed a pump . I understand they managed to refloat the hull and this has now been moved to the Black Country Boats wharf between the Town arm and Stourton Junction . Will post more when known.

 

I have to say this has been one of the most interesting debates on the forum for a long time.

[magnetman]

Oh sorry, i know your age and you said something like -thank heavens telly wasn't invented when we were kids- we both know it was and was in a lot of homes. I do believe that it has a very destructive effect on children as it forces them to absorb massive amounts of total rubbish and exceptionally aggressive advertising. I apologise if i took your comment the wrong way.

[carlt]

Oh sorry, i know your age and you said something like -thank heavens telly wasn't invented when we were kids- we both know it was and was in a lot of homes. I do believe that it has a very destructive effect on children as it forces them to absorb massive amounts of total rubbish and exceptionally aggressive advertising. I apologise if i took your comment the wrong way.

It's also a great educational tool.

[chris w]

I have to say this has been one of the most interesting debates on the forum for a long time.

 

I think you need to get out more!

[AlanJ]

Regardless of what people think, kids do pick up on what they see on the telly. From petulent footballers to Power Rangers.

My two kids do not get to see much telly, we used to occassionally let them watch Power Rangers but when they started attempting to karate kick each other as they saw on the TV, we stopped them watching it. They will copy what they believe to be acceptible as they see it happen.

 

Lead by a good example is always my motto - show them how it should be done and it's surprising how often they follow

[NB Alnwick]

Oh sorry, i know your age and you said something like -thank heavens telly wasn't invented when we were kids- we both know it was and was in a lot of homes. I do believe that it has a very destructive effect on children as it forces them to absorb massive amounts of total rubbish and exceptionally aggressive advertising. I apologise if i took your comment the wrong way.

 

Television is a very powerful medium and I remember how it almost caused an International incident back in 1979 when my youngest boy was just four years old. We were spending a fortnight's holiday in what was then the DDR (East Germany). The head of the family was a solicitor and respected member of the local community so they lived comparatively well in a luxury lakeside bungalow. The children were a little older than mine but in those days it was important to be politically correct in what was regarded as the showpiece of the European Communism - they were especially sensitive about the second world war which was not spoken of.

 

My son was an ardent fan of 'Doctor Who' at the time which I had though quite innocent.

 

Imagine my embarrassment when I had to explain why he had taught the German children to walk round saying:

 

"Exterminate, Exterminate, You will all be Exterminated"

Edited March 19, 2008 by NB Alnwick

[Hobbler]

I think you need to get out more!

 

Couldnt do that its safer in here as I might meet certain forum members !!!!

[RLWP]

Well, I blame the internet...

 

Richard

[JP01]

I think you need to get out more!

 

Last night I shook hands with the devil

In a dream that I can never lose

He laughed when he saw me cryin'

At the pictures on the evening news

He said it's not really a dilemma

You're just a little out of touch

Don't think of the situation

Cos it'll make you think too much

Someone always hates someone

Someone always hates someone

Someone always sells a gun

Cos someone always hates someone

A child will be born tomorrow

As open as an empty cup

And we'll fill it with hope and sorrow

The very things that messed us up

We'll ask him to join the congregation

A hindu muslem christian or jew

Pretty soon he'll recognise his brothers

But soon he'll know the enemy too

Someone always hates someone

Someone always hates someone

Someone always buys a gun

Cos someone always hates someone

I died and I went to heaven

In a dream I never had before

A good friend who had gone before me

Had kindly left my name at the door

I looked on the face of the almighty

Couldn't help myself

I started to shout

How come you made a mess of things

How come you didn't work it out

He said

Someone always hates someone

Someone always hates someone

There's so much love for everyone

But someone always hates someone

[Shamu1]

Im 27 and totally agree with you. My bf is 18 and I would be ok with it if he went if it meant all those other trouble making little sh*ts got a kick up the arse aswell. In fact although my bf is very well behaved and law abiding he could do with national service to make him realise what a full weeks hard work is like. I had two jobs and went to college at his age.Could we not use them for cheep labour on the farms that desperatly need it. A few summers spent fruit picking never did me any harm.OK maybe i sound like an old granny.

I am a hard mother I do not believe that kids need you to be their friend as my 24 year old says they got 3 chances to do something before mum used to split her knickers and turn green. Now you know my approx age reference to the HULK. When my turned 16 they had aprt tme jobs hated me until first pay packet. I knew where they were at all times and I had 4 kids, you make friends with their friend mothers therefore no lies or misunderstandings. proud to say that 3 girls all graduated from uni and the boy is second year apprentice electrician. Everyone is keen to blame schools boredom its society. if you have kids accept that they your responsibility. Last year near Stourport we met a viking alfoat boat they nearly took our window out coming out of Kinver locks the engine was billowing blue smoke from being over reved later on that night they set us adrift even though they knew I had a severly handicapped adult in a wheel chair and a baby of a year old onboard these people comprised of adults and teenagers. thank god for our golden retriever who only barks if there is something to bark about. And swift thinking on everyones behalf did we stop an accident happening. I phoned the police and viking afloat and they were dealt with they can never hire a boat anywhere in the country again.

Im 27 and totally agree with you. My bf is 18 and I would be ok with it if he went if it meant all those other trouble making little sh*ts got a kick up the arse aswell. In fact although my bf is very well behaved and law abiding he could do with national service to make him realise what a full weeks hard work is like. I had two jobs and went to college at his age.Could we not use them for cheep labour on the farms that desperatly need it. A few summers spent fruit picking never did me any harm.OK maybe i sound like an old granny.

I am a hard mother I do not believe that kids need you to be their friend as my 24 year old says they got 3 chances to do something before mum used to split her knickers and turn green. Now you know my approx age reference to the HULK. When my turned 16 they had aprt tme jobs hated me until first pay packet. I knew where they were at all times and I had 4 kids, you make friends with their friend mothers therefore no lies or misunderstandings. proud to say that 3 girls all graduated from uni and the boy is second year apprentice electrician. Everyone is keen to blame schools boredom its society. if you have kids accept that they your responsibility. Last year near Stourport we met a viking alfoat boat they nearly took our window out coming out of Kinver locks the engine was billowing blue smoke from being over reved later on that night they set us adrift even though they knew I had a severly handicapped adult in a wheel chair and a baby of a year old onboard these people comprised of adults and teenagers. thank god for our golden retriever who only barks if there is something to bark about. And swift thinking on everyones behalf did we stop an accident happening. I phoned the police and viking afloat and they were dealt with they can never hire a boat anywhere in the country again.

[Malarky]

Was it an insurance job? People live beyond their means and aspire to posessions they'll never completely understand, so never completely own, without fighting for them...Protection rackets, cofidence tricks and scams are almost the bones of peace in our modern age, maybe it was'nt kids at all.

Understanding how it all works is realy hardcore, and realy dangerous.Children don't learn the responsibility of this without mistakes and places to play and work it out between themselves, every mm of space is being measured and claimed by adults, today, we have a war rumoured by the newspapers, and started the next day, agressive atitudes from world leaders due to the world trade centre insurance job, cooked on a vibe 30yrs out of date.

What kind of responsible adult would contribute to such rubbish, except for a tired ground down dissolusioned escapist with nothing but a little money and a few possesions to hide behind. Surely we should move society away from this seemingly eternal b******t we live in, and then I'm sure the kids would give us a break if we asked them to, as it would be so bl***y hard that all the hormones in the world would'nt mask their sympathy, you never know they would probably be able to help.

[carlt]

Was it an insurance job?

Words fail me! Anyone else want a go?

[stort_mark]

The whole 'resurrect National Service' stuff, much beloved by Mail readers everywhere, falls apart when you look at the crime statistics of the late 40s through the 60s. Crime (of pretty much any type) certainly did not decrease during National Service (where **do** people get that idea?) but actually dramatically increased. Indeed, 'violent crimes against the person' increased four-fold between 1949 and 1963. It is abundantly clear that National Service had no impact on crime rates then, so why should it now?

 

It is easy to look back at earlier days with rose-tinted glasses, but it's as crass to assume that reinstating National Service would reduce crime now as it is to assume that it did then: it won't and it didn't.

 

It's also worth remembering before advocating such sweeping, generalised 'punitive regimes' that the vast, vast majority of young people do not offend and are not involved in any criminal activity (other than the ability to completely vanish when the dishes need doing or the dogs need walking), but instead actually contribute positively to society.

[chris w]

It's also worth remembering before advocating such sweeping, generalised 'punitive regimes' that the vast, vast majority of young people do not offend and are not involved in any criminal activity (other than the ability to completely vanish when the dishes need doing or the dogs need walking), but instead actually contribute positively to society.

 

I'm sure your statement is true but, like the stars in the Milky Way, the good 'uns and the bad'uns are not evenly distributed throughout the universe of adolescents. It's these groupings that make certain areas dangerous or even, in extremis, virtual no-go areas. In a large town, a few miles from where I live, the police are now escorting buses through bad areas at night because the buses are being attacked by stone-throwing yobbo youths. IMHO, they shouldn't escort the buses they should get stuck into the youths and break a few heads followed by long gaol sentences. Make a few severe, extreme examples. Throwing a stone at a bus - life imprisonment! Watch how quickly stone-throwing would stop.

 

Chris

[saltysplash]

I'm sure your statement is true but, like the stars in the Milky Way, the good 'uns and the bad'uns are not evenly distributed throughout the universe of adolescents. It's these groupings that make certain areas dangerous or even, in extremis, virtual no-go areas. In a large town, a few miles from where I live, the police are now escorting buses through bad areas at night because the buses are being attacked by stone-throwing yobbo youths. IMHO, they shouldn't escort the buses they should get stuck into the youths and break a few heads followed by long gaol sentences. Make a few severe, extreme examples. Throwing a stone at a bus - life imprisonment! Watch how quickly stone-throwing would stop.

 

Chris

 

 

I agree but not sure about the sentence.

 

back in the 70's and 80's the Police did get stuck in and violent behaviour was met with violent behaviour but the public didnt want to see it, They want a strong Police force but dont want to see a strong Police Force in action, and so, over the next 20yrs our police have gradually given in to the cries of police brutality so that we now have a Police Service where officers pussy foot around, They are told they cant go direct to the scene of an armed robbery anymore they must all go to an RVP and await Firearm officers, They must all wear flack jackets and yellow jackets so that they can be seen on the streets. No chasing criminals in vehicles if the 'bandit' goes through red traffic lights coz its a bit dangerous.

but you can nick the old sod who tries to defend his property and hurts some scrote in the process.

 

We are all to blame and society reaps what it sows

[chris w]

I agree but not sure about the sentence......

 

Yes, maybe it was too lenient

[saltysplash]

Yes, maybe it was too lenient

 

 

flogging or maybe ....crucifixion?

[Dominic M]

Yes, maybe it was too lenient

Out of interest, how do you think we should deal with those who make substantial sums of money by spreading false rumours about stock market quoted companies e.g.banks? Rumours that if successful will deprive the ordinary person of far more money than any petty act of vandalism or burglary? Would you mete out the same violent response as punishment to them?

[Malarky]

Out of interest, how do you think we should deal with those who make substantial sums of money by spreading false rumours about stock market quoted companies e.g.banks? Rumours that if successful will deprive the ordinary person of far more money than any petty act of vandalism or burglary? Would you mete out the same violent response as punishment to them?

 

How do you catch the perpetrators in the first place? Usually the ones worth bothering are surrounded by a ring of secrecy manifesting itself as a police operation, or you are warned that "these people are serious gangsters and will stab you up", with a follow up that they'll shoot you. God only knows what happens if they actually knew where you lived, I would'nt have even tried if anyone did! As far as what to do with them... well blimey It's hard enough just getting your point across!

[Dominic M]

How do you catch the perpetrators in the first place? Usually the ones worth bothering are surrounded by a ring of secrecy manifesting itself as a police operation, or you are warned that "these people are serious gangsters and will stab you up", with a follow up that they'll shoot you. God only knows what happens if they actually knew where you lived, I would'nt have even tried if anyone did! As far as what to do with them... well blimey It's hard enough just getting your point across!

You make the point, Malarky. How do you catch the perpetrators? Either those who ramp the share market or wreck narrowboats? And what do you do with them when you catch them? Or MPs who bleed thousands of pounds from the public to hand over to their family on false expenses claims for that matter. Simple crime invites simple responses from simple people.

[saltysplash]

You make the point, Malarky. How do you catch the perpetrators? Either those who ramp the share market or wreck narrowboats? And what do you do with them when you catch them? Or MPs who bleed thousands of pounds from the public to hand over to their family on false expenses claims for that matter. Simple crime invites simple responses from simple people.

 

 

Flogging or crucifixion?

 

 

only those who defraud the government get serious sentences, if you fleece chummy on the street, a fine and community service is more than enough.

 

complex fraud cases cost mucho money

 

scrotes damaging property costs only the time of the average plod on the beat, if the average plod was out there in the first place being alowed to do the job he/she wanted to do instead of filling in forms and numerous other reams of paperwork to enable the government of the day to tell the public how crime is being tackled and how everything is above board in the criminal justice system

 

For a good read and insight in to the average plods thinking read....'Wasting Police Time' and 'Talkng Blues'

[stort_mark]

Make a few severe, extreme examples. Throwing a stone at a bus - life imprisonment! Watch how quickly stone-throwing would stop.

 

Wow. You're actually being serious when you write this, aren't you? Yours is the 'crime and punishment theory' enforced in authoritarian regimes, both left and right. I wonder if, when you live in a country where throwing stones at a bus results in life imprisonment, you will be truly happy? What would more serious crimes merit? Trouble is, that after imposing the death penalty for - I dunno - loitering with intent, you run out of suitable punishments.

 

Knee-jerk (or perhaps arm-jerk is more appropriate) solutions rarely work, no matter how much the cab driver or your mates in the pub agree with you.

[chris w]

Wow. You're actually being serious when you write this, aren't you? Yours is the 'crime and punishment theory' enforced in authoritarian regimes, both left and right. I wonder if, when you live in a country where throwing stones at a bus results in life imprisonment, you will be truly happy? What would more serious crimes merit? Trouble is, that after imposing the death penalty for - I dunno - loitering with intent, you run out of suitable punishments.

 

Knee-jerk (or perhaps arm-jerk is more appropriate) solutions rarely work, no matter how much the cab driver or your mates in the pub agree with you.

 

I'm deadly serious. Namby pamby, fluffy buffy, happy clappy stuff doesn't work. You're no doubt one of those that would try to understand why they transgress. Life's too short for that. Lock 'em up and throw away the key. Seriously severe punishment would make a hell of a difference to the crime figures. I have worked extensively in the Middle East and you may be aware of the severity of some of the punishments for even petty theft for example.

 

I once left an SLR camera and a couple of lenses on the kerb while I was loading my car in Dubai. I drove off and forgot them. They were still there when I realised, about 20 minutes later, still sitting on the kerb in a busy area. In the UK they would have disappeared, never to be returned, in a couple of minutes tops.

 

Chris

[ChrisPy]

I'm deadly serious. Namby pamby, fluffy buffy, happy clappy stuff doesn't work. You're no doubt one of those that would try to understand why they transgress. Life's too short for that. Lock 'em up and throw away the key. Seriously severe punishment would make a hell of a difference to the crime figures. I have worked extensively in the Middle East and you may be aware of the severity of some of the punishments for even petty theft for example.

 

I once left an SLR camera and a couple of lenses on the kerb while I was loading my car in Dubai. I drove off and forgot them. They were still there when I realised, about 20 minutes later, still sitting on the kerb in a busy area. In the UK they would have disappeared, never to be returned, in a couple of minutes tops.

 

Chris

I can endorse those sentiments and experiences from working all over Asia and the Middle East. Except for Nigeria I have never worked in a country as lawless as the UK.