Vandals destroy Charity Boat

[NB Alnwick]

I agree - and something both Kev and I have found when working with young people in theatre. The trouble makers often, when given lone responsibility, knuckle down and come out shining.

 

Surely, if the answer to the present unprecedented levels of anti-social indiscipline and lack of respect were that simple, we would no longer have a problem.

 

The reality is that the problem is getting worse!

 

Only last week when returning from a doctors' appointment Jane and I saw a youth of about 12 on the ground by the side of the road and obviously in pain having suffered some form of accident. We stopped and asked if we could help - only to be subjected to abuse by the small crowd of similarly aged youths who had gathered round. We couldn't understand what they were saying although I am sure that they were English but we could tell it was abusive because they were also spitting at us.

 

To be fair to the young man who appeared to be injured, he did thank us for stopping and said that he had twisted his ankle (he had been on a skateboard) and that he had called his mum on his mobile.

 

This didn't happen in some deprived urban estate but in a pleasant country village.

Edited March 18, 2008 by NB Alnwick

[BlueStringPudding]

Surely, if the answer to the present unprecedented levels of anti-social indiscipline and lack of respect were that simple, we would no longer have a problem.

 

The reality is that the problem is getting worse!

 

Only last week when returning from a doctors' appointment Jane and I saw a youth of about 12 on the ground by the side of the road and obviously in pain having suffered some form of accident. We stopped and asked if we could help - only to be subjected to abuse by the small crowd of similarly aged youths of the same age. We couldn't understand what they were saying although I am sure that they were English but we could tell it was abusive because they were also spitting at us.

 

To be fair to the young man who appeared to be injured, he did thank us for stopping and said that he had twisted his ankle (he had been on a skateboard) and that he had called his mum on his mobile.

 

This didn't happen in some deprived urban estate but in a pleasant country village.

 

I'm not saying it's that simple. To give them responsibility in same areas of their lives will not solve all problems... but don't knock until you've tried it.

[bottle]

Vandals are not always teenagers.

 

No where in the first post is the age of the perpetrators mentioned.

[blackrose]

I actually think that a lot of the problem is caused by the fact that young people are increasingly herded together with other young people for ever longer instead of being socialised in adult company. What a lot of them need is a job; an apprenticeship, a good old fashioned introduction to the adult world from the age of fifteen or so. Then they would go to the pub with their older workmates and learn to drink sensibly and behave in an adult fashion instead of going out in crowds of youths and ending up in the gutter. They would have money to pay for things they then wouldn't nick and for entertainment so they wouldn't need to torch boats, and above all a lot of their time and energy would be accounted for. And if there ever were good old days, I'd suggest it was more because of this sort of thing than national service.

 

I agree with you, it's a "Lord of the Flies" syndrome of kids spending too much time with other kids. I think this is the price we pay for our so called affluent society. Everyone's out working all hours to pay off their mounting debts and there'a no time for family life anymore. Instead little Johnny gets fobbed off with a new pair of trainers and the latest computer game which just adds to the debt and the vicious circle continues. Everyone's so wrapped up in the acquisition of property, cars and other material possesions, and if the values of adults and parents are so skewed how can we expect our youth to have any decent values?

 

I remember when I was about 15 or 16 and we knew a couple of pubs we could get into where they wouldn't ask our age or would just serve anyone who could remember a date of birth. These were mainly working men's pubs and they all knew we were under-age but I think the general feeling was "behave yourself and we'll leave you alone - start playing like children and we'll kick you out." We were just happy to be in an adult environment and I think we respected their space. If you couldn't hold your drink then you just looked like an idiot.

 

Has anyone, ever actually seriously said this?

Probably not, but there are still people around who believe in this sort of nonsense.

[NB Alnwick]

I'm not saying it's that simple. To give them responsibility in same areas of their lives will not solve all problems... but don't knock until you've tried it.

 

I am certainly not knocking what you have achieved. I applaud the idea of giving youngsters responsibility and authority.

 

I also have worked with young people and given them responsibility - almost always with satisfactory results. Nevertheless, these were far from being the extreme miscreants that would go out and injure, kill, threaten or cause damage without apparent reason - I doubt if anyone can understand the motivation of such individuals and that is why we have failed to find a way of stopping them.

[Chertsey]

national service could encompass forestry, agriculture, cleaning up our environment, social work, etc. as long as it is properly supervised in a disciplined manner and it is away from home (living in camps where it is essential to get along with your colleagues) with only very occasional home leave.

 

Sounds pretty harsh treatment for people who have done nothing wrong.

[blackrose]

Sounds pretty harsh treatment for people who have done nothing wrong.

I thought Summer Camp was something most young people looked forward to in America?

[magnetman]

Does national service have an age limit? If it's under my current age then i agree with it, if not i'll have to think about it.

[Jason Wilson and Family]

Sounds pretty harsh treatment for people who have done nothing wrong.

I thought the idea was to only send the rotters that had? The others will have the example if the thought ever crosses their mind.

 

Make it something they can't destroy like an iceberg.

Better yet, put them on an iceberg, tell them they can do as they please as long as they are okay with the consequences. They'll realise the problem with their behaviour around about the time the iceberg starts to sink.

[blackrose]

Some of these kids need to go and do community work on welfare projects in places like Africa - get them out of their usual suroundings & let them see some real deprivation! They might realise how lucky they are.

 

Sounds like an idea for a reality TV programme...

[carlt]

Are we blanket punishing kids by sending them all off to boot camp, or devising a suitably cruel punishment for the perpetrators of this particular cime?

 

If it's the first then the "national service" idea seems a bit like the advocates of child beating saying "it never did me any harm" which is always a matter of opinion.

 

If it's just aimed at the criminals who destroyed the boat, when they're caught, well don't hold your breath.

[Malarky]

Send 'em to a remote island like Ibeza, drug 'em up with a couple of years partying, then a probationary period of council and community meetings back here. Should make them dissapear.

[debbifiggy]

A narrow boat that was kept at the Ruskin Centre on the Stourbridge Town Arm and was used by a charity to help kids with learning difficulties has been destroyed by mindless vandals.

 

The boat was set adrift from its offside mooring and set on fire - damage is so severe that the boat is probably a complete wright off.

 

This is yet another incident in the same area which has before included the sawing off off balance beams , vehicles being pushed into the canal and empty factories being torched

 

Words of disgust are hardly adequate for these morons !!!

Oh (very bad swear words), I'm really sorry to hear this news. Any leads from the police or local CCTV that can help? Are your local "safer neighbourhoods" team any help ?????? Just what is it with these mindless yobs? What has gone wrong with our society and how do we put it right? Somedays I just really get upset and feel like giving up but then at the end of the day we've all got to stand up to this kind of rubbish and say it's not acceptable or there will be no end to it.

 

Keep us posted Hobbler. Hope they get 'em in the end.

D

[AlanJ]

Could someone who is a bit closer to what is happening keep us posted - if there is a collection for funds to help replace this valued service I'd be happy to contribute.

 

Lets not let these vandals win

[Ron]

My first job after University was as a YTS supervisor teaching Kids from Dagenham and thereabouts how to grow things and milk goats.

 

- peas came in tins and the red glow at sunset in the sky was the metal cooling over Fords. ( they were not the most enlightened group of people I had ever met)

 

Goats are great for this , they can look after themselves and have a sense of humour.

 

Shutting a streetwise teenager, who was new to goats, in the goat shed with the goats for 10 minutes often had remarkably beneficial effects.

 

At first they were terrified, then they built up some sort of repartee with the animals and then finally when they came out they just wanted to tell you all about it, which meant establishing a realtionship with you too.

 

After that it was a short step to teaching them how to look after the animals as you had their interest.

 

There are some important elements in this process that could be applied elsewhere.

[blackrose]

My first job after University was as a YTS supervisor teaching Kids from Dagenham and thereabouts how to grow things and milk goats.

 

- peas came in tins and the red glow at sunset in the sky was the metal cooling over Fords. ( they were not the most enlightened group of people I had ever met)

 

Goats are great for this , they can look after themselves and have a sense of humour.

 

Shutting a streetwise teenager, who was new to goats, in the goat shed with the goats for 10 minutes often had remarkably beneficial effects.

 

At first they were terrified, then they built up some sort of repartee with the animals and then finally when they came out they just wanted to tell you all about it, which meant establishing a realtionship with you too.

 

After that it was a short step to teaching them how to look after the animals as you had their interest.

 

There are some important elements in this process that could be applied elsewhere.

 

Are you suggesting we all keep goats on our boats?

[Radiomariner]

Sounds pretty harsh treatment for people who have done nothing wrong.

 

Not at all. I did not feel "punished" during my near 40 years in the Merchant Navy, where many aspects of the conditions are similar or worse than HM Prisons, let alone National Service.

At sea, not only was I seperated from friends and loved ones for very long periods, but I also had to work 8 hours 7 days per week plus being on call to work 24/7. There was also the prospect of drowning or being blown to bits!

 

I sometimes felt it unjust that convicted criminals don't work, have TV's in their cells, visits from friends and family, no rates, no income tax no bills.

 

I think "Hard Labour" should be re-introduced into sentencing!

[blackrose]

Not at all. I did not feel "punished" during my near 40 years in the Merchant Navy, where many aspects of the conditions are similar or worse than HM Prisons, let alone National Service.

At sea, not only was I seperated from friends and loved ones for very long periods, but I also had to work 8 hours 7 days per week plus being on call to work 24/7. There was also the prospect of drowning or being blown to bits!

 

I sometimes felt it unjust that convicted criminals don't work, have TV's in their cells, visits from friends and family, no rates, no income tax no bills.

 

I think "Hard Labour" should be re-introduced into sentencing!

 

I do sometimes think it's odd how some people are quick to protest against the idea of convicted people in uniform doing menial tasks on the grounds that this harks back to the days of the chain gang and would infringe their human rights. Yet nobody seems to have a problem with immigrants in uniforms cleaning the toilets, emptying bins and doing the general shit jobs in our office buildings, airports, public places, etc.

Edited March 19, 2008 by blackrose

[PaddingtonBear]

Are you suggesting we all keep goats on our boats?

What is wrong with keeping goats on a boat? Keith and Christine Ball did for nearly ten years on 'Gerald' and it certainly did them no harm

Edited March 19, 2008 by PaddingtonBear

[magnetman]

I passed a boat a couple of days ago with a sign hung on the hedge 'GOATS EGGS £1.50 doz' so boats and goats have potential

[cotswoldsman]

wow!!!! The Daily Mail would be proud of the replies in this post, guess it would be even better if we assume they are from Poland or some in Eastern European country and that they did this after eating all the Swans and Fish out of the canal. Must be all the kids that also drop all the bags of rubish on the towpath and never clear up after there dogs. Oh yes guess on the basis that most kids are abused by adults we had better put all people over 21 in the army, most woman are murdered by there husbands better put all married men in the army.

[carlt]

What I find funny is the assumption, by kids, that their generation invented sex and by adults, that the current crop of children invented crime.

 

I assume that, in the 40s, when, for obvious reasons, conscription was at a high, there was no crime and spivs, the black market and the rise of organised, violent crime was just for the movies.

 

My Dad (hated National Service) tells of how, in the 50s, the local gangs sewed fish hooks and razor blades under the lapels of their Teddy boy suits, in case rival thugs grabbed them for a head butt.

 

The 60s was the time mods and rockers destroyed seaside resorts for fun.

 

Who remembers the "Fun, Filth and Fury" headline, by the Mirror, about the rise, and threat, of the punks, in the 70s? Though, most of the hardcore punks I knew were too monged out on glue to actually threaten anyone.

 

80's belongs to Thatcher and legal thuggery.

 

I missed the 90's but apparently the police were beating up hippies and the hoodies were coming.

Edited March 19, 2008 by carlt

[Dominic M]

What I find funny is the assumption, by kids, that their generation invented sex and by adults, that the current crop of children invented crime.

 

I assume that, in the 40s, when, for obvious reasons, conscription was at a high, there was no crime and spivs, the black market and the rise of organised, violent crime was just for the movies.

 

My Dad (hated National Service) tells of how, in the 50s, the local gangs sewed fish hooks and razor blades under the lapels of their Teddy boy suits, in case rival thugs grabbed them for a head butt.

 

The 60s was the time mods and rockers destroyed seaside resorts for fun.

 

Who remembers the "Fun, Filth and Fury" headline, by the Mirror, about the rise, and threat, of the punks, in the 70s? Though, most of the hardcore punks I knew were too monged out on glue to actually threaten anyone.

 

80's belongs to Thatcher and legal thuggery.

 

I missed the 90's but apparently the police were beating up hippies and the hoodies were coming.

Anyone read Oliver Twist recently?

[blackelle123]

The Swinging sixties certainly has a lot to answer to. Free love and no rules!!! Fine at the time and now we are paying the cost. Todays parents don't know how to 'parent' and kids believe that everything should come handed to them on a plate. The goverment should help to put more 'structure' back into the family through education. The education system pre 60's may have some of the answers.

Maybe if we stopped listening to 'The European Court of Human Rights' and got back to some good English values then that might be half way to the solution. We can't expect the goverment to put it all right, because after all its our fault. Stop all the nambi pambi ideas and get down to the job at hand. The country is in a mess and we need to sort it out NOW!!!

[Dominic M]

The Swinging sixties certainly has a lot to answer to. Free love and no rules!!!

Absolutely. It was brilliant!