Calling All Solar Panel Owners...

[BlueStringPudding]

Anyone know the pros and cons of each sort of solar panel: amorphous / monocrystalline / polycrystalline / Flexible Film?

 

Are there any other sorts what I don't know about?

 

Those of you who use solar panels, which do you have? Are they good and do you believe they're good value for money?

[NB Willawaw]

I normally get involved with the polycrystalline modules.

Solar Panels are quite an expensive way of generating power due to the initial cost and they rarely

generate enough power to supply the boat (only augment other methods).

I have built a solar tracker that will automatically rotate the tilted panel to face the sun, so that

output is maximised through the day. It works on shore with good results (despite the winter sun) and I am just making a few tweeks and plan to fit this on a boat soon, so I can test it properly.

I am also looking at MPP charge controllers which makers claim will increase generated power by 20-30%.

Edited February 5, 2008 by NB Willawaw

[Tony Brooks]

Anyone know the pros and cons of each sort of solar panel: amorphous / monocrystalline / polycrystalline / Flexible Film?

 

Are there any other sorts what I don't know about?

 

Those of you who use solar panels, which do you have? Are they good and do you believe they're good value for money?

 

 

After much soul searching about semi-flexible panels (been nasty stories about life in the US) I decided they were not cost effective (Unisolar seemed to have stopped production of theirs) so I got a 60 watt panel from A Butt because it is narrower than most so you can walk down the roof beside it (and lay lines beside it). This is coupled with a Stecca controller that does an equalization charge which I understand is beneficial if the batteries are on a long term charge as they will be with a solar panel.

 

This has never produced more than a 3 amp charge and is usually closer to 2, but it does recharge the batteries between trips and allows worry free "short" days in the summer.

 

I do not think solar will serve a livaboard unless they have the minimum of electrical loads.

[JohnO]

"I do not think solar will serve a livaboard unless they have the minimum of electrical loads"

I second that Tony, wind power is a much better option. Solar will only give a trikkle charge at the best of times.

lay lines or ley lines?

[Chris Pink]

wind power is a much better option. Solar will only give a trikkle charge at the best of times.

 

Sorry, disagree, the reverse is true.

 

I know people with light electrical needs that live solely on solar. 3 amps average for 8 hours after the spring equinox is possible form an 80W panel, giving quite usable amounts of power.

 

Wind of the other hand is not at all suitable for inland use giving at best a trickle. I believe the exception to this is in the flatlands of the East of England where it's difficult to tell the difference betwixt sea and land.

 

it is however said that it takes 20 years to recover the energy expended on the manufacture of solar panels so they are a way from being 'green'.

Edited February 5, 2008 by Chris Pink

[pwl]

I have done some research for panels on the house. Monocrystalline is more efficient than polycrystalline but more expensive per watt. Amorphous are normally cheaper but less efficient. Not looked at flexible. The higher output panels are cheaper (per watt) than the smaller ones (normally - shop around) and you do need a good quality charge controller. I am looking at putting 2 of the 175 W or 200 W Kyocera on the boat http://www.unlimited-power.co.uk/kyocera_s...modules_uk.html with the Mornigstar ProStar controller http://www.midsummerenergy.co.uk/shop/morn...ontrollers.html . I figure that with limited roof space the more efficient the panel the better (though the Kyocera are polycrystaline) . The problem with photovoltaics is the output rating is always in ideal conditions so my own rule of thumb is drop the rated output by 50%. If you can get the perfomance graphs for the ones you are looking at it is easier to compare them. You can find many on the web with a lot of digging. You can get inverter controllers that can put engine charging, solar / wind and give 230V 'mains' output if you want and 'all in one' package. Photovoltaic as the main power source is expensive short term. You also need to consider the size of your battery bank to cope with overcast days when the photvoltaics wont produce a lot of power. I will be interested in your results.

 

P

Edited February 5, 2008 by pwl

[moggyjo]

Sorry, disagree, the reverse is true.

 

I know people with light electrical needs that live solely on solar. 3 amps average for 8 hours after the spring equinox is possible form an 80W panel, giving quite usable amounts of power.

 

Wind of the other hand is not at all suitable for inland use giving at best a trickle. I believe the exception to this is in the flatlands of the East of England where it's difficult to tell the difference betwixt sea and land.

 

it is however said that it takes 20 years to recover the energy expended on the manufacture of solar panels so they are a way from being 'green'.

Totally agree, when my old engine packed up, I survived a whole winter with 4 panels, 2are 70watts and the other 2 are 75watts, I didn't have to use the generator once, mind you I was not so greedy for electricity then

[Gary Peacock]

Depends how you live but on most of the electrical systems I am involved with they would make so little difference they would be pointless.

 

I have seen worthwhile results with wind power but that is very dependent on your location.

[sueb]

We had a wind genny 15 yrs ago. It was worse than useless as we hit all the bridges!

Sue

[Chris Pink]

Depends how you live but on most of the electrical systems I am involved with they would make so little difference they would be pointless.

 

I think a discussion like this illustrates the difference between those who look upon the energy question from the point of view of 'How little can I use' and those who want the same kind of consumption pattern as a house. Whereas in this country, at this latitude, it is difficult to imagine living on solar alone, I know people in Spain and Italy who certainly derive a comfortable amount of power from the sun.

 

I couldn't live without my hi-tech stuff but I can certainly lose all those electricity for heating and motor applications. A recent post on another thread specified a system where 'I can use my microwave at the same time as the washing machine'.

 

Well I agree, solar will never do that but part of the boatie thing, in these times of population growth, climate change and the desire of developing countries to have the same access to resources, is surely to examine these issues.

 

Within the context of low-impact living solar power certainly has a place.

 

My wooden boat is kept afloat and lit by a single 50W panel, a not trivial application. Unfortunately, I don't know which type so i can't do the poll.

[Postcode]

I think a discussion like this illustrates the difference between those who look upon the energy question from the point of view of 'How little can I use' and those who want the same kind of consumption pattern as a house. Whereas in this country, at this latitude, it is difficult to imagine living on solar alone, I know people in Spain and Italy who certainly derive a comfortable amount of power from the sun.

 

I couldn't live without my hi-tech stuff but I can certainly lose all those electricity for heating and motor applications. A recent post on another thread specified a system where 'I can use my microwave at the same time as the washing machine'.

 

Well I agree, solar will never do that but part of the boatie thing, in these times of population growth, climate change and the desire of developing countries to have the same access to resources, is surely to examine these issues.

 

Within the context of low-impact living solar power certainly has a place.

 

My wooden boat is kept afloat and lit by a single 50W panel, a not trivial application. Unfortunately, I don't know which type so i can't do the poll.

 

Surely though part of the point of developing solar and wind power is to allow people to use 'green' methods of energy generation at northern lattitudes.

 

I would need considerably less power in Spain and Italy because the climate is different.

 

I believe we could be converted to 'green' power in the uk if the will is there but it is not something that is economic on a personal level.

Edited February 5, 2008 by st170dwl

[Alistair]

I've got a pair of CIS (Copper-Indium-diSelenide) panels made by Shell. 40W each, work well in low light, run everything I need, generally the cat's pyjamas.

 

Let me know if you'd like some more details.

[Lesd]

H BSP,

Interesting question; We have 2 x 130w Kyocera pollychrystaline modules plus a stecca controller. They have been installed since Nov last. For the first few weeks I logged the power produced every day and it ranged from 2ah (very icy start followed by very very heavy cloud cover) to a max of 24AH in a single day. Most days that were bright'ish produced 18-20AH, I guess this (18-20) has been a typical daily output unless its really black and horrible outside.

 

We also have a Rutland 913 wind genny and the output from this has been far more patchy. We have gone for weeks and produced virtually nothing, the max instantaneous output Ive seen was 9amps and that was in really really strong winds and was just a peak. 2-3amps seems like good going and it fluctuates a lot going down and zero as much as its up at 2 or 3amps on a windy spot on a windy day.

 

To give a real example; last weekend we left the boat for 36 hours. The power was isolated so draw was virtually zero. Our smartguage showed that the solar and wind has put back 15% of our battery capacity while we were away. We have a 550ah bank so that about 80amps over 36 hours, approx 2.3 amps per hour over the whole period. Not bad ??? I guess as people have said its all about expectations !

 

Les

[Chris Pink]

I've got a pair of CIS (Copper-Indium-diSelenide) panels made by Shell. 40W each, work well in low light, run everything I need, generally the cat's pyjamas.

 

Let me know if you'd like some more details.

 

More details please Alistair, google doesn't have much, listing only one stockist.

 

 

edited to say: the only stockist i came up with this morning, Conrad Anderson can't get them from their suppliers. Does anyone know why they should be so elusive?

Edited February 6, 2008 by Chris Pink

[BlueStringPudding]

Well, we already have wind turbine. But windy days (that don't constitute gusting so hard it's a health hazard) have been relatively few. When it does turn fast enough to charge, the noise it makes inside the boat is very irritating and certainly can't be slept through! Fine when away from the boat though.

 

Solar panels, although less powerful, are at least quiet!

[barroca grande]

I am hoping to put solar panels on my boat when I get it built. I am planning on the flexible ones that can be walked on and am leaving a large area free of vents etc to accomodate them and hopefully they will blend in with the roof. The idea being that oiks wont notice them and therefore throw stones and break them like they can with the glass ones. They may not be the most efficient but I think for piece of mind ...

[Bones]

The solar panels I have are Kyocera which I bought locally. I am pretty sure they are polycrystalline so I have ticked that box.

 

I love the panels, I have a pretty low electrical requirement and one 80w panel fulfills my needs during the winter and the summer without any trouble at all. I run a fridge during summer, but not in winter. Other than that I use the odd light here and there, and I will be replacing those with LEDs shortly.

 

I use the car radio periodically, but only on sunny days, and the panels cope admirably.

 

I had wind on the previous boat and ideally I would like both, not because I need the electricity but I like the technology.

[Kristian]

How can people say solar is no good for live aboads, as it only trickle charges the batteries? This is daft as surley it depends on the size of the panels!

I have two 130w panels for AB butt, 260w divided by 12v give your max amps, 21.6 amps! The most ive seen was 18amp per hour last summer.

If you have an inverter its like been on mains electric!

Truly great!

[Big Steve]

Maplin have an offer on at the moment, 12v 4.8 watts, enough to keep the starter battery trickle charged between trips on a leisure boat, £30,

[Lesd]

How can people say solar is no good for live aboads, as it only trickle charges the batteries? This is daft as surley it depends on the size of the panels!

I have two 130w panels for AB butt, 260w divided by 12v give your max amps, 21.6 amps! The most ive seen was 18amp per hour last summer.

If you have an inverter its like been on mains electric!

Truly great!

 

Hi Kristian,

I have 2 x 130w panels too, only had them since Nov last though. On a decent clear day I've seen 20+ AH over the day which I thought wasn't bad for winter.

You mention you have seen 18amps as a max current flow but how many amp hours does that equate to over a whole summers day, have you managed to record that ?

Cheers

Les

[chris w]

How can people say solar is no good for live aboads, as it only trickle charges the batteries? This is daft as surley it depends on the size of the panels!I have two 130w panels for AB butt, 260w divided by 12v give your max amps, 21.6 amps! The most ive seen was 18amp per hour last summer.If you have an inverter its like been on mains electric! Truly great!

 

It's 260W divided by 14.8v less about 10% in efficiency losses so approx 16A max.

 

Remember too, that's the maximum possible under ideal conditions.

 

Chris

 

The solar panels I have are Kyocera which I bought locally. I am pretty sure they are polycrystalline so I have ticked that box.I love the panels, I have a pretty low electrical requirement and one 80w panel fulfills my needs during the winter and the summer without any trouble at all. I run a fridge during summer, but not in winter. Other than that I use the odd light here and there, and I will be replacing those with LEDs shortly.I use the car radio periodically, but only on sunny days, and the panels cope admirably.I had wind on the previous boat and ideally I would like both, not because I need the electricity but I like the technology.

 

Bones

 

How do you quantify "one 80w panel fulfills my needs during the winter and the summer without any trouble at all". A single 80W panel even in summer will only just about compensate for the fridge, let alone anything else. And that assumes really bright continual sunlight. What are the numbers rather than the gut feelling please?

 

Chris

Edited February 11, 2008 by chris w

[Bones]

It's 260W divided by 14.8v less about 10% in efficiency losses so approx 16A max.

 

Remember too, that's the maximum possible under ideal conditions.

 

Chris

Bones

 

How do you quantify "one 80w panel fulfills my needs during the winter and the summer without any trouble at all". A single 80W panel even in summer will only just about compensate for the fridge, let alone anything else. And that assumes really bright continual sunlight. What are the numbers rather than the gut feelling please?

 

Chris

 

 

Hi Chris.

In winter I don't use my fridge and in summer I don't use my lights. If there is enough power going, i.e. my batteries are 100% on a gorgeous sunny morning I will use my radio for a bit. I tend to shower when at work so the pump isn't frequently used, and if i do use it I make sure there is enough power in the batteries for the pump.

 

my only other consumption is the water pump.

 

I only ever have one light on in winter if i am reading, and other than that i sit in the dark (to lap up the auditory scene rather than the visual one) and use candles or a parafin lamp which i love when drawing.

 

running the engine for power is only something i do if i want a warm shower and i usually plan any mucky work onboard to co-incide with moving the boat.

 

that is about it. My lights currently use 0.7 amps or 1.2 amps deoending which i use, and i am looking into replacing them with LEDs. I have just ordered one to try.

 

Does that answer it fully? Yes, I am a liveaboard, and no, i dont live anywhere else. My washing gets done when I visit friends or there is a half load going in someone elses machine and I top that up.

 

 

 

bones

[Chris Pink]

Does that answer it fully?

 

Sure does, no room for no possible doubties there, our Bones.

 

There does seem to be a bit of gulf - on this forum, in the boating world - between those who seek to reduce their dependence on 'lecky and those who will not give up any of the things they are accustomed to in a house.

 

I think the use of solar technology should be as a part of an lifestyle energy audit and will never work in the latter context.

 

One of the things I learnt first about renewable energy is that battery technology is stuck in the Victorian age, awaiting a breakthrough that will enable it to keep up with the other potentials for generation and efficient use of electricity.

[Chris Pink]

I've got a pair of CIS (Copper-Indium-diSelenide) panels made by Shell. 40W each, work well in low light, run everything I need, generally the cat's pyjamas.

 

 

 

It would appear that Shell have stopped making these and there are no stocks nowhere, although there is talk that a French company called Avansis is currently setting up a manufacturing facility.

[stylus]

Anyone know the pros and cons of each sort of solar panel: amorphous / monocrystalline / polycrystalline / Flexible Film?

 

Are there any other sorts what I don't know about?

 

Those of you who use solar panels, which do you have? Are they good and do you believe they're good value for money?

Amorphous more efficient on overcast days. More expensive.

I have 2 panels 1foot x about 3feet giving about 50 -70 milliamps each on the dullest day and abou 1.2amps each on a bright day.