12v or 240v for Liveaboard

[huntergatherer]

Hello all

What is best on a liveaboard that is going to be used for a non Marina based Liveaboard 12v or 240 via an invertor.

Gary

[NB Phoenix]

Hello all

What is best on a liveaboard that is going to be used for a non Marina based Liveaboard 12v or 240 via an invertor.

Gary

 

How about both. 12v for lighting (with LED lights for even less power use) 240v via invertor for other items (fridge, TV, microwave, washingmachine etc) or even consider an onboard gennie. It's very much horses for courses.

[blackrose]

Hello all

What is best on a liveaboard that is going to be used for a non Marina based Liveaboard 12v or 240 via an invertor.

Gary

 

It's generally not a choice between the two - it's both. You'll want a mains ring in case you ever decide you want a mooring or find a nice winter mooring with shore power. I think more new boat owners are opting for mains only via inverter, but personally I wouldn't do that as it leaves you very vulnerable should the inverter ever malfunction.

Edited January 10, 2008 by blackrose

[bottle]

Hi

 

As Phoenix says but you could go down the 24v and 240v route.

[DHutch]

We do without an inverter, and have everything runing on 24v, and not much of that anyway.

- However a large number of people do now have inverters, as the price comes down, and peoples expectations go up!

- Infact, im considering bying a 300w MSW inverter myself, just to run a laptop or camera or drill charges of and the like.

 

Runing things direct of 12/24v will save the losses in the inverter, and relience on the inverter working.

 

Personally i would have all you lights, water pump, bildge pump and that running on 12v. And i would use mainly florecent lighting.

 

The only other real main item we then have on emilyanne is the fridge, which is always a talking point in the 12vdc/240vac discution, and for that specific item alone, you will find a stack of past threads on the forum too. Ours is 24vdc.

 

*Note, while many (most?) boats run of 12v low voltage systems like cars and carvans, theres a non insignifcat number that use 24v, for the varous merits that it has.

 

 

Daniel

[huntergatherer]

Thanks for the advice all

[steelaway]

Hello all

What is best on a liveaboard that is going to be used for a non Marina based Liveaboard 12v or 240 via an invertor.

Gary

 

Hi There

My Tenpen'th

 

In regard to 240V. If you are fitting a washing machine (2500w) you need a generator on the engine. If not spend your money on a good set of battery's (min 400Ah) a charge controller and a 1800w inverter. Every thing else will run of that.

It allows you to use domestic fridge/hob (igniter)/digibox/DVD player/TV/iron/toaster/micowave/ect.

Even with a 240 generator you will still need an inverter when you can't run the engine.

As the other guys said you definitely need both.

[sueb]

We do without an inverter, and have everything runing on 24v, and not much of that anyway.

- However a large number of people do now have inverters, as the price comes down, and peoples expectations go up!

- Infact, im considering bying a 300w MSW inverter myself, just to run a laptop or camera or drill charges of and the like.

 

Runing things direct of 12/24v will save the losses in the inverter, and relience on the inverter working.

 

Personally i would have all you lights, water pump, bildge pump and that running on 12v. And i would use mainly florecent lighting.

 

The only other real main item we then have on emilyanne is the fridge, which is always a talking point in the 12vdc/240vac discution, and for that specific item alone, you will find a stack of past threads on the forum too. Ours is 24vdc.

 

*Note, while many (most?) boats run of 12v low voltage systems like cars and carvans, theres a non insignifcat number that use 24v, for the varous merits that it has.

Daniel

 

You don't need 240 v to run a laptop. Mine runs on 19v with a gizmo from Maplins.

Sue

[DHutch]

You don't need 240 v to run a laptop. Mine runs on 19v with a gizmo from Maplins.

Sue

Yeah its true, you can get 12v travel adapters for laptops. And if i lived aboard without a shoreline i proberbly would.

- But practicaly every laptop is diffrent, ditto camera chargers, phone chargers as people keep buying non-nokia's there days.

- Plus, all in all, i just want a play with an inverter. I have a 25amp breaker in the fuse box i have always wanted to put to use.

 

 

 

Daniel

[Chris Pink]

Hello all

What is best on a liveaboard that is going to be used for a non Marina based Liveaboard 12v or 240 via an invertor.

Gary

 

12V everytime, 240V is used for the grid because it is easier to transport power over distance but low voltage DC is to be preferred where the power is generated near to the point of use. It is recommended in off-grid house systems.

 

Lights and all electronic equipment is readily available in 12V.

 

For high power use, and there's not much low power stuff that you can't get 12V, vacuum cleaner, power tools etc i'd use a generator, maybe an engine driven generator if you only want one engine but I wouldn't consider them cost effective compared to one of the wonderful Honda suitcase generators - the EU20i will do most things.

 

As backup maybe a small inverter for versatility when you need it, for instance our bass player brings her amp to practice and it's convenient to be able to plug it in to the inverter.

 

But having that 50Hz hum all the time seems to contradict one of the reasons for living on a boat. And although there are real safety issues with 12V having so much 240V floating around in the damp would make me twitchy (excuse the pun). Another issue is that 240V equipment is not designed with low power requirement in mind and the waste power that you will have to generate will be substantial.

 

Whichever system you go for the basic equation is the same; power out requires power in and a bit of effort to get your power requirements as low as possible is well worth it especially as the fuel to generate that power has to be transported to your boat.

 

As has been pointed out 24V is also an option (smaller cable size is one benefit) but your will find the equipment more expensive and more difficult to source.

[goldtone]

Hello all

What is best on a liveaboard that is going to be used for a non Marina based Liveaboard 12v or 240 via an invertor.

Gary

 

I suppose it depends what you want to run. My boat has both, but I aim to have everything possible running from 12v, including laptop (with adaptor from amazon.com), phone charger, fridge, pumps, LED lights.

 

The inverter will only be used for the tv if I ever decide to watch the thing and for now, the stereo. Anyway, using an inverter takes 10% of your charge inverting the power I believe, so surely to run 12v conserves your power?

[CampinGazz]

don't have a boat.. yet, but have a motorhome, we have 12 volts and a 1500 watt pure sine wave inverter,

but 95% of things in the van run on 12 volts,

 

tv, dvd player, sattelite, water pump, phone charger (makro do a universal 12 volt phone charger, changeable ends for 4 different phone types included and more available), laptop we run via a 12 volt power supply, tho my first laptop would run directly on 12 volts with the internal battery removed, just needs the higher voltage to re-charge the internal battery, all the lights are of course 12 volts, which we have those 8 watt flourescents, a load of 12 inch cold cathode tubes (pull half what an 8 watt flourescent pulls and gives a brighter light) and a couple of those 16 watt 2D tubes.

 

Fridge is 12 volts, (was a 3 way gas one, but got fed up of it not working in the heat, 12 volt fridge works fine in spain, but pulls a lot of power from the batteries doing so,

 

I have a cordless drill that i converted to 12 volt corded, it was a 12 volt battery drill, when the battery pack died, i pulled the batteries out, put a socket in the bottom of the now empty battery pack, and a curly power cord to connect it to a 12 volt outlet, but you an get adaptors to charge the drill batteries from a radio controlled car battery charger.

 

The eberspacher D5W heater is 12 volts of course,

 

The only things that we run on the invertor are: the centeral vacuum cleaner, which has a 1500 watt motor, the microwave, which pulls 900 watts input power, and the washing machine (candy 3.5 kilo load jobbie)

 

Yes i do run the washer off the 1500 watt invertor, could power it from a 350 watt invertor (has to be pure sine wave tho) as we dont use the washers electric heater (one of the reasons i chose the candy over the zanusi mini washer, the candy has a teperatur dial, set it to tap water temp, and the internal heater is turned off, i feed the washer warm water from the onboard hot and cold water supply via a thermostatic mixer valve, we make the hot water (20 litre twin coil callorifier) so why not use it in the washer, if the washer took a hot feed as well as cold there's be no probs, but as it's cold feed only we had to use the mixer valve.

 

But what i'm saying is that you can run most items off 12/24 volts nowadays, either directly or with a DC to DC converter (which is what the laptop power supply is, 12 volts in, upto 24 volts out) and that is the most efficiant way,

 

People still charge their phones in motorhomes using a home charger and the inverter, they take 12 volts DC, turn it into 230 volts AC with the invertor, loosing 15% or more in the process, then they drop the voltage down to 5 volts DC with the plug in charger, loosing another 10 to 15% in the process, so they are wasting 30% of the power they use, which is wasted as heat.. ok maybe usefull on a cold day (in our bedroom at home, it gets too hot for comfort with the desktop computer running, turn it off and it gets cold in the room, lot of wasted power in a desktop pooter but handy for keeping warm on a cold day

 

but i'd say use an inverter for the big loads that only get used a few minutes a day, and run everything else off 12/24 volts DC,

[Chris Pink]

a load of 12 inch cold cathode tubes

 

as someone who sounds like they know what 'cold cathode' means, do you know where i can get a circuit diagram for one? for 13W tubes?

[Lady Muck]

You don't need 240 v to run a laptop. Mine runs on 19v with a gizmo from Maplins.

Sue

 

Canon even do a 12v printer. We use mostly 12v on our boat, only the pc, printer (it's a mother - it does A3) and microwave are 240v We've only got a weedy invertor to power the printer when we're on the move. We have 12v and 240v on the boat.

[DHutch]

Cold cathodes are simluar to a normal florecent, with electronic ballest and the like, only they do not heat the cathodes continuously like a normal florecent.

- There fairly horrably expesive from wht ive seen, and a little slower to start/warm up.

- However the light is good, and they do use less than even a florecent bulb, which is good.

 

We have three 240v GU10 replacment coldcathodes at home on trial as we speak.

- As i say, the lgiht is good. But with the dimable CFL's in the other two light fittings (which are also slower starting than normal cfl's) the whole room doesnt light up at all for about 30seconds after the switches are thrown And takes nearly 2minutes to get fully upto temperature!

 

 

Daniel

[CampinGazz]

The cold cathodes i have in my motorhome are the type that computer geeks use when they modify their pooter case,

 

they are basicaly a 4, 6 or 12 inch length of very thin glass tube, enclosed in a plastic outer tube, 2 wires from them which plug into a small inverter (usually a swan vesta sized plastic box, 12 volts DC in, 600 volts at 5 milliamps out to the tubes)

 

they are not compleat lights, just the tubes, but i have used 5 of them as is, i routed a shallow cut out for them under the eye level cupboards in the van, and fixed them there, i also gutted a couple of normal fluorescent fittings and put the cold cathodes inside, the best one i did was the outside over door light, this had a 13 watt tube in it, but gave out a pretty dismal ammount of light,

 

i put 2 x 12 inch cold cathodes in there (overlapping in the middle) and whilst they do take a few seconds to come upto full brightness, especialy on a cold day, once warmed up they throw out a lot of light,

 

i can light my entire living area in my van from 2 cold cathodes... note this is a motorhome, so the living area is about 4 meters by 2 meters wide by 2 high,

 

i also have 2 cold cathodes in the shower cubicle, i put a semi opaque piece of plastic up for the roof of the shower cubicle, and between the plastic bit and the real celing sit the 2 cold cathodes (with a big full fan vent on the middle, pulls the door open on the shower if put on suck and turned upto full, handy in summer to dry you off tho when but on blow)

the 2 cold cathodes light the shower cubicle up better than daylight.

 

and as i said, running 2 tubes off a single inverter (made to run 2 tubes) they pull about hald an amp, less than a single 8 watt standard fluoro tube, and a lot more light output,

 

downsides are they are slow to get to full brightness, only takes about a minute on a very cold day, but not ideal if you need instiant light... tho a few led lights could solve that,

 

and they give out a very white light, almost clinical, BUT you can dim them, just lower the voltage going into the inverter, and the tube dims, can go down to around 6 volts and still get a useable light out of them,

 

I got mine from eBuyer.com, the ones i got origionaly were made by 'sunbeam' and they were regarded as the best, but ebuyer dont do sunbeam cold cathodes anymore it seems, and the replacement ones they do arent quite as good, but at about 3 quid for a twin 12 inch cold cathode set, i aint complaining, just make sure you order the white ones, as they come in about 8 different colours, they can be pulsed/flashed, so you could make up a disco boat with a few coloured ones and a sound to light controller... if you were sad enough that is