Leak

[bluelapsing]

Morning all,

 

After a week of everything seeming to be fixed, a leak has appeared...

 

This is the cupboard under the sink that houses the water pump and has always been a little bit damp. I've had a look and it's damp but not rotten, but seems to be the same by the other window where the floor is slightly raised. Hard to say without ripping up the carpet there.

 

Is there an easy way to check if this is water coming in through the windows (which I'm sure it is) and making its way into the middle of the boat, or to check if it's a leaky pipe connected to the pump, or something else?

 

Laying a new floor is high on my to-do list anyway, but not sure it's a good idea to just lay on top of this without finding a fix or replacing parts of the chipboard, if possible.

 

Thanks

[rusty69]

That looks like quite a lot of water. First off, did you resolve the broken window and pump running problems?  No point laying new floor, particularily on top of wet wood, until the leak is resolved.

 

Kitchen towel is good for finding pump and pipework leaks. Thoroughly dry the area and lay towel beneath suspected offending area. Does the pump run when all the taps are off?

 

After you have eliminated a plumbing leak,I think you will need to remove the carpet near the window to see whats going on.

[bluelapsing]

OK so it's (almost) definitely the pump, the other bit is probably a separate issue which I've sealed up as much as I can from the outside till I can reseal the windows in the spring.

 

So my new question is: could this dripping pump have caused that damp over a long period of time?

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

That looks like quite a lot of water. First off, did you resolve the broken window and pump running problems?  No point laying new floor, particularily on top of wet wood, until the leak is resolved.

 

Kitchen towel is good for finding pump and pipework leaks. Thoroughly dry the area and lay towel beneath suspected offending area. Does the pump run when all the taps are off?

 

After you have eliminated a plumbing leak,I think you will need to remove the carpet near the window to see whats going on.

 

Yes and yes, thank you - the pump is running fine now (think that was my fault as the battery just wasn't giving enough charge, now it runs fine and the gruesome noises have stopped) and the lovely people at Wesley Marine Windows, recommended by another forum member, I think, sorted me a new window for £60 incl delivery 😊

 

I'm about to attack the dark area under the sink with some towels and torches now!

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, bluelapsing said:

OK so it's (almost) definitely the pump, the other bit is probably a separate issue which I've sealed up as much as I can from the outside till I can reseal the windows in the spring.

 

So my new question is: could this dripping pump have caused that damp over a long period of time?

You just said you were sure it was the window. But yes, a constant, but slow dripping would cause damp and a wet floor, and if the pump running was caused by low batteries, may have masked the problem.

 

Looks to me you still have a pump leak. Try checking the connections are tight. That brass connection looks like it is dripping, though may be condensation.

[Tracy D'arth]

You will get damp everywhere with that much condensation. You need to fix any and all leaks, get some heat into the boat and ventilate as well to drive out all that moisture.

Do you dry clothes inside?  Or boil a lot of water cooking?

[bluelapsing]

Yes to all of the above except drying clothes - my surveyor had a peek under the carpet and said enough heat and ventilation would dry the wood out with some holes poked in it, so maybe the battery problem with the pump exacerbated the problem.

 

I'm having to update that the previous owners never replaced, so this might be going onto that list too, and hopefully a lot of ventilation and heat will solve the problem.

 

Will check the connections and air out the cupboard now before ripping up some more carpet and getting a fire going.

 

Thanks both 🙏

 

 

[rusty69]

The other thing worth looking at if its beneath the kitchen sink, is the sink drain and overflow connection (on both the sink and the skin fitting outlet). If its a metal sink, they are also a culprit of condensation. But you may have a mixture of things going on here. You won't really know (unless its an obvious leak) until the area is thoroughly dried out, and then observed. If you have access to a fan heater, that, in addition to a solid fuel stove going should dry the area out prettty quickly.

[bluelapsing]

Found it!!

 

It's a slow dripping from the connector on the left. Tightening it up didn't make much difference so I'll dry it out and get something under there to catch the water.

 

DO boats generally have a stop clock to cut off water completely, or do I just have to live with the dripping until a replacement JABSCO arrives?

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, bluelapsing said:

Found it!!

 

It's a slow dripping from the connector on the left. Tightening it up didn't make much difference so I'll dry it out and get something under there to catch the water.

 

DO boats generally have a stop clock to cut off water completely, or do I just have to live with the dripping until a replacement JABSCO arrives?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes - there should be a stopcock within a few feet of where the pipe comes out of the water tank.

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, bluelapsing said:

Found it!!

 

It's a slow dripping from the connector on the left. Tightening it up didn't make much difference so I'll dry it out and get something under there to catch the water.

 

DO boats generally have a stop clock to cut off water completely, or do I just have to live with the dripping until a replacement JABSCO arrives?

 

 

 

 

Is the pump actually faulty? There is normally a stop tap on the tank outlet.

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, bluelapsing said:

Found it!!

 

It's a slow dripping from the connector on the left. Tightening it up didn't make much difference so I'll dry it out and get something under there to catch the water.

 

DO boats generally have a stop clock to cut off water completely, or do I just have to live with the dripping until a replacement JABSCO arrives?

 

 

 

 

 

I suspect the brass nut and fitting is not the correct connector and suspect it may be just sealed with an O ring. You should investigate this.

 

All those I have seen have a stop cock close to the tank outlet, but usually just inside the cabin, but boats are one offs, and they are often gate valves that either fall apart inside or jamb, so if you have one it may or may not work.

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Is the pump actually faulty? There is normally a stop tap on the tank outlet.

Do you mean the one I have marked in red or the one in blue. Nether require a new pump to fix them. I dont know why the red line went mad

[bluelapsing]

It's coming directly from under that little blue switch on the main body of the pump.

 

There seem to be a lot of ways of increasing the flop of the dripping, but none to slow it down beyond a drop every second or so.

 

At this point I'll just order a replacement for peace of mind, and in future at least I'll have a record of when everything was last looked at. Relieved this is the cause though, should be an easy long-term fix 😮‍💨

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

6 minutes ago, bluelapsing said:

It's coming directly from under that little blue switch on the main body of the pump.

 

 

Do you mean here. If so that is an O ring seal and to me it looks like you solid pipework has it under stress.

 

[rusty69]

44 minutes ago, bluelapsing said:

It's coming directly from under that little blue switch on the main body of the pump.

 

There seem to be a lot of ways of increasing the flop of the dripping, but none to slow it down beyond a drop every second or so.

 

At this point I'll just order a replacement for peace of mind, and in future at least I'll have a record of when everything was last looked at. Relieved this is the cause though, should be an easy long-term fix 😮‍💨

 

 

Thats a push type clamp with an 'o ring' type connector beneath. Make sure the clamp is fully pushed home. Make sure you push it the right way. The other way will make the connector come out.If that fails, Isolate the supply and check the 'o ring' is intact and positioned in the groove correctly, and there is no debris in the pump inlet.

Edited February 6 by rusty69

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

Do you mean here. If so that is an O ring seal and to me it looks like you solid pipework has it under stress.

 

 

Agreed, and I think all the pump manufacturers specify FLEXIBLE host for the immediate connection. Certainly not semi-rigid plastic pipe.

[bluelapsing]

Yes - exactly there!

 

Need to swan off for a meeting now but when I get back I'll look into switching the water off and having a closer look

 

Thanks everyone for your help, much appreciated.

 

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, bluelapsing said:

Yes - exactly there!

 

Need to swan off for a meeting now but when I get back I'll look into switching the water off and having a closer look

 

Thanks everyone for your help, much appreciated.

 

 

 

 

With your pipe set up you will probably have the same problem with a brand new pump.

[bluelapsing]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

With your pipe set up you will probably have the same problem with a brand new pump.

 

Oh nooo!

 

I could probably stretch to following the instructions for fitting a new pump, but beyond that maybe it's best to get an actual plumber on the job.

[jonathanA]

you don't need to be a plumber to use something like this :

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/jg-speedfit-push-fit-flexible-tap-connector-hoses-15mm-x-1-2-x-300mm-2-pack/9938g

 

 

 

[rusty69]

1 hour ago, bluelapsing said:

At this point I'll just order a replacement for peace of mind, and in future at least I'll have a record of when everything was last looked at

 

A spare pump in case of failure is a useful thing to have if you intend keeping the boat for more than a few years. These jabsco pumps have quick connections, so it's usualy only a 15 min job to swap over.

 

As a general installation point, as said above, flexible pipe is preffered for the final connection to a pump. Both at its inlet and outlet. Installing the pump on a vertical surface with the pump head lower than the motor, and a receptacle of some sort (we use a lunch box) to catch any drips, when it does inevitably start leaking, will hopefully prevent your wood work, and the bilges being damaged in the future. Some people even put a water leak alarm beneath to give an audible warning. You have to give some thought to damping the vibration caused by the pump on a hard surface too, and the noise it produces. Whilst these pumps  generally have rubber feet, that do an ok job, its not always enough.

 

Having said that,you don' t want a pump to be totally silent either imo, as its a good indication of when a leak does begin, but only if it is on the high pressure side of the pump. 

[Onewheeler]

Those blue clips that hold the push-fit connector in place are very fragile. Be careful with it, and think about buying a few spares if you are going to play with the pipework much.

[Tracy D'arth]

Those pumps are rubbish now, in fact all that type of 3 chamber squash plate pumps are rubbish, Jabsco or even worse, Shurflo. The plastic distorts and they leak from the joint. Many times I have rubbed them flat on emery to get them to seal again.

The old belt drive Jabsco Par just go on and on. You can also buy all the spares to repair them.

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Those pumps are rubbish now, in fact all that type of 3 chamber squash plate pumps are rubbish, Jabsco or even worse, Shurflo. The plastic distorts and they leak from the joint. Many times I have rubbed them flat on emery to get them to seal again.

The old belt drive Jabsco Par just go on and on. You can also buy all the spares to repair them.

I wouldn't say they were rubbish as such. They do leak after a time. The last one we had lasted 6 years full time liveaboard before it started leaking. Now that may not compare with you belt drive pump, but then neither does the price.

BTW Do you need spare parts for the old belt drive pump if they go on and on, or have you got a triggers broom?

[Tracy D'arth]

33 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I wouldn't say they were rubbish as such. They do leak after a time. The last one we had lasted 6 years full time liveaboard before it started leaking. Now that may not compare with you belt drive pump, but then neither does the price.

BTW Do you need spare parts for the old belt drive pump if they go on and on, or have you got a triggers broom?

No Trigger's broom but as I have 3 working full time on boats they do eventually need a belt or a pulsation damper, the rubber eventually perishes.  But consider that they are all at least 28 years old! Makes your 6 years look like very poor value for money.

Quality costs but you only get what you pay for.  I have changed 2 Jabsco Max 29 pumps for folk already this year, both only 3 or 4 years old.