Yarwood butty 'Hound'

[davidwheeler]

Good morning, does anyone know anything about the Yarwood-built iron/steel butty 'Hound', which lay in Etruria Dry Dock for some time in the 1970s?

[magpie patrick]

Just bumping this so it stays on View New Content

 

I did a Google Search for "Yarwood butty Hound" and it came up with this thread, so that doesn't help!🤔

[Jen-in-Wellies]

I searched via another route and came up with a mention on this thread.

LMS station boats, whose fates could not be determined. Doesn't sound good for Hound having survived the 1970's.

[davidwheeler]

The boat was in the drydock in 1975. It had no superstructure at all. The hull was completely open. I noted the name and the builder, so there must have been a builder's plate on the boat. There seemed to be no ongoing work - it was just lying there. I wondered, and still wonder, what could have been done with it. I was interested because we had a butty, motorised by using Cones. Which caused other difficulties. 

By the sound of it, nothing was done with Hound - otherwise some member of this site would surely know about it.  It is not mentioned on Clive Guthrie's list of conserved Yarwood boats in his brief history published by Northwich Heritage Society. But he mentions another 160 motor narrow boats... 

[davidwheeler]

This is a photo of Hound in Etruria Dry Dock. About 1975. During the time that Milton Maid and Milton Queen were working on the Caldon. Does the image help? Does it tell us anything? About the drydock? About Hound? Somebody must remember.

[Nick G]

I believe the clearly visible hole in the fore deck is for the offset towing mast.

[magnetman]

edited as didn't look properly. 

Edited January 15 by magnetman

[davidwheeler]

I have never heard of an 'offset towing mast' used on a canal boat. Can anyone enlighten me? 

[Paul H]

13 hours ago, Nick G said:

I believe the clearly visible hole in the fore deck is for the offset towing mast.

All station boats have this hole usually plated over.  I’d always thought it was for a portable hand pump.  It’s a bit far forward for a towing mast I’d have thought.

 

Paul

[Pluto]

16 minutes ago, davidwheeler said:

I have never heard of an 'offset towing mast' used on a canal boat. Can anyone enlighten me? 

They were used on wide boats and were fitted in the front corners of the hold. They could be placed at an angle, depending upon the cargo. The central mast, known as the ludget on the L&LC, was usually used for holding the boat forward in locks. Cleats were provided on the towpath side of the balance beams for this use.

[magnetman]

I initially thought this was an early Bantock horse Boat but the knees look wrong. Having said that by 1975 a lot would have had steel bottoms and footings and the bent knees were not always retained. 

 

The deck looks thick so presumably wood. I don't think it would be the right place for a towing mast. 

Both the Bantocks and the Yarwoods station Boats had the 3 inch D strakes but I think that might be a Bantock. Maybe the bows are not quite fine enough. 

[Derek R.]

If that was ever thought of as being an 'offset towing mast' fitting, what happens when the towpath changes, or the boat needs to be turned for a return journey?

 

BCN boats had a simple set up with a pole seat against a beam, easily fitted and switched from one side to the other from which a line could be fixed.

[magnetman]

The Boat has a bit of a look of a recent cabin removal. That would make it a rather early conversion or possibly a butty with a bke cabin.

 

If it did have a cabin on it then that hole could be for the flue for the Fire. If it had been used as a butty rather than a horse Boat the arrangements would be different. So if there was a rudimentary bow cabin it would make sense, due to the limited space, to put the Fire under the foredeck. 

 

 

[Bitty]

I thought the hole in the station boat fore deck was for a pump mine as one on the England .

[Derek R.]

14 hours ago, magnetman said:

The Boat has a bit of a look of a recent cabin removal. That would make it a rather early conversion or possibly a butty with a bke cabin.

 

If it did have a cabin on it then that hole could be for the flue for the Fire. If it had been used as a butty rather than a horse Boat the arrangements would be different. So if there was a rudimentary bow cabin it would make sense, due to the limited space, to put the Fire under the foredeck. 

 

 

 

With regard to the 'under the foredeck' cabin, these were cabins built up above the foredeck. Any flue pipe would be through the roof of the forecabin and not in the position as shown on HOUND's foredeck. Moreover, the position of the hole as shown would be directly above any cross-bed such as might exist in a forecabin. A pump hole is the most likely reason for its existence.

[davidwheeler]

Well, I am none the wiser, really. I accept that my photo is pretty poor, but I took it because I wasn't sure exactly what Hound's designed purpose was. It was built by Yarwoods. I would not have noted that had I not found evidence of that. It had what I thought was an odd bow - rather pointed. If that was its bow rather than just one of its two ends. It seemed to have been divided by large baulks of timber a few feet from either end. It had cleats on either side of the foredeck. Otherwise nothing at all. Using Mr Paget Tomlinson's NBID published in WW during late 1998/early 1999, I thought it might have been a BCN day boat. And I wondered what it was doing in Etruria Drydock. Presumably someone owned that drydock. Presumably Hound was put in it for some reason. Any more ideas or should we close this discussion?

[Paul H]

Hound was a “station boat” built by Yarwoods for the LMS railway around 1930 and would not have be3n fitted with a cabin.  Station boats were fine lined and low sided to take light goods from parts of the Black Country not served by railways to “interchange depots” where the parcels etc. would be transferred to rail.  I’m not sure when this practice finished but I think in the 1950s when as a result of nationalisation Hound would have come into the ownership of British Waterways.  A few were converted to long distance cabin boats, others to early pleasure boats for hire but the majority were used as maintenance boats often for dredgings.

 

Station boats have a design fault in that there is a lapped joint half way up the hull side which creates a little “shelf” and there is usually serious corrosion behind the knees.  Many of these boats have been rebuilt as attractive tugs but I’m not sure if Hound was one of the lucky ones.  Quite a few maintenance boats “disappeared” in the north west as the staff allegedly sold them for scrap for cash.

 

Richard Booth of the Historic Narrow Boat Club has made a study of station boats and may be able to help further. Contact him on archivist(at)hnbc(dot)org(dot)uk.

 

hope that helps (a bit!)

 

Paul

[davidwheeler]

Well, Paul H,  many thanks indeed for that. Just what I was looking for. I will follow up your suggestion.

[magnetman]

3 hours ago, Paul H said:

Hound was a “station boat” built by Yarwoods for the LMS railway around 1930 and would not have be3n fitted with a cabin.  Station boats were fine lined and low sided to take light goods from parts of the Black Country not served by railways to “interchange depots” where the parcels etc. would be transferred to rail.  I’m not sure when this practice finished but I think in the 1950s when as a result of nationalisation Hound would have come into the ownership of British Waterways.  A few were converted to long distance cabin boats, others to early pleasure boats for hire but the majority were used as maintenance boats often for dredgings.

 

Station boats have a design fault in that there is a lapped joint half way up the hull side which creates a little “shelf” and there is usually serious corrosion behind the knees.  Many of these boats have been rebuilt as attractive tugs but I’m not sure if Hound was one of the lucky ones.  Quite a few maintenance boats “disappeared” in the north west as the staff allegedly sold them for scrap for cash.

 

Richard Booth of the Historic Narrow Boat Club has made a study of station boats and may be able to help further. Contact him on archivist(at)hnbc(dot)oarchivist(at)hnbc(dot)org(dot)ukrg(dot)uk.

 

hope that helps (a bit!)

 

Paul

I was referring to the possibility that it had a cabin as part of an early pleasure Boat conversion. I once owned an 1884 Bantock horse Boat which had been motorised with original back end. This had a very early pleasure conversion. 

 

It seems possible that if one of these was converted in say 1950 then 25 yars later taking the cabin orf and replacing it is not beyond possible. 

 

 

[magnetman]

It could have been a cabin like this, for example, where keeping the fire out of the accommodation area could prove advantageous for a number of different reasons.

 

Edited January 16 by magnetman