Not the Anchor type I'm used to.

[David6214]

This anchor came with the boat. Got various attachment points and a comparatively complicated folding arrangement. I'm kind of thinking it's some sort of retrieval system? 

 

This very specific bit of rope came with.

 

Any clues?

[Alan de Enfield]

It is called a "Fishermans Anchor" designed for use on rocky bottoms where the flukes will slide into the crack/gaps in the rocks and 'bite' the short length of rope is designed to break if you cannot retrieve the anchor allowing the anchor to be pulled out backwards (Flukes first). The weak link looks too strong to me  it should break before the main anchor line - but it looks the same type as the main line.

 

Useless for Canals and Rivers. 

Throw it away and get a proper anchor that will do the job.

 

It is a centuries old design that has been superceded, and the perfomance exceeded many times .

 

Evolution of anchors :

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[blackrose]

36 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Throw it away and get a proper anchor that will do the job.

 

 

Don't throw it away, put it on eBay and you'll probably get 10 or 15 quid for it.

[MtB]

Just get an anchor that weighs 200kg.

 

It will 'just work' and it won't matter what design it is.

 

 

 

 

[blackrose]

55 minutes ago, MtB said:

Just get an anchor that weighs 200kg.

 

It will 'just work' and it won't matter what design it is.

 

 

I once deployed a homemade permanent concrete anchor on the Thames at my mooring as a bit of insurance in case of flooding. It was made of 2 x 25kg bags of concrete mixed up in one of those giant plastic buckets you can buy at the big hardware outlets for a couple of quid. 

 

I got a mate to help me lift it onto the tip of the bow and I took the boat forward and signalled to my mate to push it off about 25 yards upstream of the head of the mooring, slightly out into the river. There was an enormous splash and he got soaked of course!

 

There was a bit of chain embedded in the concrete and then some 28mm rope which I'd weighted down to keep it on the bottom. When the river started to rise I'd tension the rope and the idea was that when it went into flood the boat would swing out slightly away from the bank rather than over it. The other thing was that the mooring was at the head of the island so there was no tree and no bank ahead to tie a bow rope going forward.

 

Anyway, that 50kg bucket of concrete held my 29 tonne widebeam firm throughout several floods so I don't think anyone here would need as much as 200kg. Having said that I'm sure over time weed growth over the anchor also helped to secure it.

Edited December 9, 2023 by blackrose

[LadyG]

It's a type of Fisherman anchor, a sea anchor for rock and kelp. The original Fisherman is difficult to stow, I assume this was designed to overcome that difficulty.

On a canal it might damage any lining as it tried to get a hold.

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by LadyG

[David6214]

7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Useless for Canals and Rivers. 

Throw it away and get a proper anchor that will do the job.

 

It is a centuries old design that has been superceded, and the perfomance exceeded many times .

 

Thanks Alan. I'm guessing the Previous owner had it for rivers then. 

 

We've got several Danforth types which hopefully we don't need, but this just looked interesting.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, David6214 said:

Thanks Alan. I'm guessing the Previous owner had it for rivers then. 

 

Totally unsuitable for Rivers, so hopefully he never needed to use it.

 

I'd suggest that you look to replace the Danforth for a more suitable anchor. The Danforth has a very poor "1st time set" record and slips and slides without setting properly.

Unlike at sea, on the rivers, the use of an anchor is an emergency brake and you need it to work properly 1st time - every time.

[MtB]

12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Unlike at sea, on the rivers, the use of an anchor is an emergency brake and you need it to work properly 1st time - every time.

 

 

Otherwise you might hurtle at 1mph into some trees somewhere and scratch the paint...

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

 

Otherwise you might hurtle at 1mph into some trees somewhere and scratch the paint...

 

 

 

 

Or, you might hurtle at 2 or 3 mph over a weir and die.

[MtB]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Or, you might hurtle at 2 or 3 mph over a weir and die.

 

 

And far more likely, you might not! 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

 

And far more likely, you might not! 

 

 

 

I'd far rather pay £100 and be fairly confident that I'd be able to stop going over a weir, than use some unsuitable piece of equipment with a (at best) 50:50 chance of it working.

 

As you are heading down stream out of control it's a bit late to say I should have got a proper anchor.

 

Just like insurance, it's a total waste of money buying an anchor - UNTIL you need to use it.

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I'd far rather pay £100 and be fairly confident that I'd be able to stop going over a weir,

 

£100 to install the type of anchor you generally recommend?!

 

Prices must be tumbling, I never realised.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

£100 to install the type of anchor you generally recommend?!

 

Prices must be tumbling, I never realised.

 

 

I paid a lot (£600+) for the one for the Cat, I paid £60 for the one on the Cruiser, and I think that IanD has bought one the same for similar money.

 

 

 

 

[DandV]

2 hours ago, David6214 said:

 

Thanks Alan. I'm guessing the Previous owner had it for rivers then. 

 

We've got several Danforth types which hopefully we don't need, but this just looked interesting.

The fisherman's anchor was largely just that. Something to temporarily  hold a fishing boat in position whilst working lines or pots.

A task where failure to hold was very largely just an inconvenience.

The weak point to allow upside down retrieval, to work, cannot be stronger then the ability of the crew to break it under tension.

When you look at the breaking strain of modern filaments and cords what is required us suprisingly thin.

 

But for secure, or emergency  mooring, and if you are going to cart something around for years,  it's best that it is something that actually has a very good chance of doing just that, when needed.

 

 

[IanD]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I paid a lot (£600+) for the one for the Cat, I paid £60 for the one on the Cruiser, and I think that IanD has bought one the same for similar money.

 

 

 

 

£60, you must be kidding!

 

IIRC anchor (10kg Kobra) plus chain plus anchorplait cable cost not far short of £500.

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I'd far rather pay £100 and be fairly confident that I'd be able to stop going over a weir, than use some unsuitable piece of equipment with a (at best) 50:50 chance of it working.

 

As you are heading down stream out of control it's a bit late to say I should have got a proper anchor.

 

Just like insurance, it's a total waste of money buying an anchor - UNTIL you need to use it.

And to be of any use the anchor, chain and rope must be properly laid out on the boat ready for use, with the rope tied off at a suitable strongpoint, and the crew need to know exactly when and how to deploy the anchor without endangering themselves or the boat. And all this has to happen faultlessly on the first occasion the anchor is used in anger...

[Alan de Enfield]

23 minutes ago, IanD said:

£60, you must be kidding!

 

IIRC anchor (10kg Kobra) plus chain plus anchorplait cable cost not far short of £500.

 

Well I certainly picked mine up for £60 (excluding chain - I have 50 metres of 10mm chain)

 

I thought you had got one for around £100.

 

The Kobra II anchor prices currently on the internet are :

6kg £89

12kg £196

16kg £223

 

There is a 12kg Kobra on Gumtree at £65 well worth the OP (or anyone else) having a chat about.

Shipping by Evri would not be too much.

 

Kobra anchor - Gumtree

 

 

3 hours ago, David6214 said:

We've got several Danforth types which hopefully we don't need, but this just looked interesting.

 

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, David Mack said:

And to be of any use the anchor, chain and rope must be properly laid out on the boat ready for use, with the rope tied off at a suitable strongpoint, and the crew need to know exactly when and how to deploy the anchor without endangering themselves or the boat. And all this has to happen faultlessly on the first occasion the anchor is used in anger...

 

 

Would that not be the case irrespective of it being a Danforth, A Kobra or a Mantus anchor ?

 

One can at least read, learn and even practice the art of deploying an anchor - waiting for the incident to happen and then just 'chucking it overboard' is going to result in dissapointment.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[IanD]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Well I certainly picked mine up for £60 (excluding chain - I have 50 metres of 10mm chain)

 

I thought you had got one for around £100.

 

The Kobra II anchor prices currently on the internet are :

6kg £89

12kg £196

16kg £223

 

There is a 12kg Kobra on Gumtree at £65 well worth the OP (or anyone else) having a chat about.

Shipping by Evri would not be too much.

 

Kobra anchor - Gumtree

 

 

10kg Kobra anchor -- from the cheapest UK supplier that actually had one in stock -- was £158 inc. VAT, 5m of chain was £52, total with shipping (not cheap!) and VAT (often not on price lists...) was £256. 25m of 14mm anchorplait with suitable eyes at both ends was about £200 from a different supplier.

Edited December 9, 2023 by IanD

[Alan de Enfield]

33 minutes ago, IanD said:

5m of chain was £52, total with shipping (not cheap!)

 

Tell me about it, look at the price of calibrated chain. - I have 50 metres of 10mm calibrated chain - it has to be to a very high dimensional standard to be used on a windlass. A fraction of a mm cumlulative can totally jam the windlass gypsy.

 

You chose to use Anchorplait that is a very expensive choice when 19mm / 22mm Nylon 3-strand rope would have done the same job at a fraction of the price. (I know the cost & benefits of anchorplait** as my Spring lines -  4x 12 metres -  are 22mm anchoplait).

 

I agree that the total system price will add up, but my point was that you would need everything (shakles, chain rope) exactly the same irresepective of if you use an £100 Danforth or a £150 Kobra anchor - even better when you can buy a 12kg Kobra for £65

 

Why buy something that has a low chance of working when you need it to, when for about the same price you can get something that is much more likely to work 1st time, every time. (Isn't that why you chose a Kobra ?)

 

** I did save some money as I can splice - yes anchorplait is an 8 strand so it is a differenet method to standard 3-strand, but is easily done if you have a set of fids.

 

I also made an anchorplait / octoplait anchor/towing bridle complete with sleeves to protect the octoplait where if goes thru the hawse-holes.

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[blackrose]

7 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Otherwise you might hurtle at 1mph into some trees somewhere and scratch the paint...

 

 

This is true, but you just never know. I've met several boaters on the Thames who don't even carry an anchor because they came off the canals and never thought about it - or more likely were too tight to buy one. 

 

It's a bit like insurance. Most of the time you'll never need it, but the point is as Alan says, when you do need it, you need it and you need it to work. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by blackrose

[David6214]

16 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Totally unsuitable for Rivers, so hopefully he never needed to use it.

I'm guessing it was hardly for regular deployment. The tape was quite firmly on there and it was shackled up. Boat came from the Lancaster and spent a lot of time on the Nene and Middle levels. Maybe it was chucked on the bank. You do see some very creative mooring down there.

[IanD]

11 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Tell me about it, look at the price of calibrated chain. - I have 50 metres of 10mm calibrated chain - it has to be to a very high dimensional standard to be used on a windlass. A fraction of a mm cumlulative can totally jam the windlass gypsy.

 

You chose to use Anchorplait that is a very expensive choice when 19mm / 22mm Nylon 3-strand rope would have done the same job at a fraction of the price. (I know the cost & benefits of anchorplait** as my Spring lines -  4x 12 metres -  are 22mm anchoplait).

 

I agree that the total system price will add up, but my point was that you would need everything (shakles, chain rope) exactly the same irresepective of if you use an £100 Danforth or a £150 Kobra anchor - even better when you can buy a 12kg Kobra for £65

 

Why buy something that has a low chance of working when you need it to, when for about the same price you can get something that is much more likely to work 1st time, every time. (Isn't that why you chose a Kobra ?)

 

** I did save some money as I can splice - yes anchorplait is an 8 strand so it is a differenet method to standard 3-strand, but is easily done if you have a set of fids.

 

I also made an anchorplait / octoplait anchor/towing bridle complete with sleeves to protect the octoplait where if goes thru the hawse-holes.

 

 

 

Not arguing with any of that, the anchor cost difference between a 10kg Kobra and a 20kg Danforth is small, and the Kobra is both more effective and much easier to store/deploy.

 

Anchorplait was a costly luxury but makes it much easier to stow (the whole thing lives in a plastic garden trug) and less likely to tangle or knot when being paid out in a hurry, which is the only time you're likely to need it on the UK canals/rivers...

 

Should I ever have to do this -- which is *very* unlikely, most boaters never have to in an entire lifetime of boating -- then this all gives it a better chance of doing the job, which is why I went for it... 😉

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, IanD said:

Anchorplait was a costly luxury

 

Just as an aside (it may be of interest to those considering buying an anchoring 'system') what size/length of chain and anchorplait did you go with ?

 

As you know I went with 100% 10mm chain which just self-stows in the locker (or plastic tub) as you pull it in. The downside, which is a benefit when anchoring, is obviously the weight, at 2.3kgs/meter 50 metres is a bit of a handful, but for 'river depths' the chain could obviously be much shorter (maybe as little as 12-15 metres).

 

When manually pulling the chain in you are only ever pulling in the 'water depth' (in mts) x 2.3kg, until you get to the last few feet when you you have the chain and anchor weight combined.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Bristolfashion]

On our yacht I use a modern design, Manson Supreme - an excellent anchor for any sea / river bed. I use 30m chain & then anchorplait, but if you're only in rivers, I'd have thought that you could have less chain as there's less chance of abrasion.

 

The standard rode length is a minimum of 3x water depth and, for extreme conditions, a maximum of 10x. I would have thought that, for non tidal rivers, a rode of 5x the maximum possible depth would be fine, but I'd be interested in others comments.

 

I reckon it's always worth having 1. a float / fender to attach to an anchor rode - if the anchor gets stuck and you need to cut it free, you can attach the float and come back for the anchor later. You can also use it (on suitable anchor types) to create a tripping line to pull a stuck anchor free. Tripping lines & floats can also be good to mark the position of an anchor, so no-one else drops an anchor on top of yours and, 2. some form of spare / backup anchor in case you lose the primary.