Brentford in the Distance

[magnetman]

"the foreground, we see a boat navigating through broken ice sheets,"

 

 

OK. So despite the several setting poles and mooring lines secured to the canal bank the boat is 'navigating'. 

 

 

Maybe this is the interpretation of 'used for bona fide navigation' by people who never move. 

[David Mack]

5 minutes ago, mark99 said:

"A man stands by the damaged canal bank,"

I don't see a damaged canal bank. The foreground section is walled, with a bypass or overflow weir in the immediate foreground, and looks in good condition. Further back is a typical rural unpiled bank where the turf comes down to the water's edge. And there are the remains of a sunken and decaying boat in the water alongside.

[mark99]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

I don't see a damaged canal bank. The foreground section is walled, with a bypass or overflow weir in the immediate foreground, and looks in good condition. Further back is a typical rural unpiled bank where the turf comes down to the water's edge. And there are the remains of a sunken and decaying boat in the water alongside.

I don't see Kew Pumping Station neither

[Chris M Jones]

The wide beam craft depicted is an Upper Trent Boat often seen on the Fossdyke and river Witham, the upper river Trent above Gainsborough, Nottingham canal, river Soar to Leicester, Grantham canal and the eastern end of the Trent and Mersey.

 

The mast carried a sail when needed and these boats had a centre cabin.

[David Mack]

6 hours ago, Chris M Jones said:

The wide beam craft depicted is an Upper Trent Boat often seen on the Fossdyke and river Witham, the upper river Trent above Gainsborough, Nottingham canal, river Soar to Leicester, Grantham canal and the eastern end of the Trent and Mersey.

 

The mast carried a sail when needed and these boats had a centre cabin.

That should narrow things down a bit. The photo is clearly on a canal (or canalised section of a river navigation) not a river, and the presence of a bywash weir in the foreground suggests two locks not very far apart. So Nottingham Canal, Grantham, T&M? 

[blackrose]

On 21/11/2023 at 23:56, magnetman said:

Maybe this is the interpretation of 'used for bona fide navigation' by people who never move. 

 

 

Yes, this was one of the original historic CMers. Many modern CCers who abuse the rules can trace their lineage all the way back to that one guy. 

[magnetman]

On 20/11/2023 at 19:45, mark99 said:

This must be pre 1930 or the gasholder layout/type at Brentford would have been a different layout (I used to work there).

 

Grantham gas works ? Apparently it was near the canal. 

 

[mark99]

21 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

Grantham gas works ? Apparently it was near the canal. 

 

Too small.

[Derek R.]

There is also no lock within sight of Grantham Gas Works (as was).

https://tinyurl.com/ydvfu5mn

 

Here's a long shot:

Firth & Clyde Canal just West of Glasgow.

Imagine looking East from Temple Lock. There's a lock ahead, and to the South East with Gas Works No. 4, and Kelvinside brick works beyond.

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15.8&lat=55.89405&lon=-4.31851&layers=6&b=1

 

Long shot.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Derek R.

[Pluto]

On 22/11/2023 at 17:28, Chris M Jones said:

The wide beam craft depicted is an Upper Trent Boat often seen on the Fossdyke and river Witham, the upper river Trent above Gainsborough, Nottingham canal, river Soar to Leicester, Grantham canal and the eastern end of the Trent and Mersey.

 

The mast carried a sail when needed and these boats had a centre cabin.

Not sure about it being a Trent boat as it is not like this one at Holme Lock. Of course, there are certainly variations in construction around the Trent.

[Chris M Jones]

The location looks like the Nottingham Canal. The photographer is standing at the head of Hickling’s Lock 4, with the lock by-wash in the foreground and looking north to Simpson’s Lock 5. Nottingham Corporation Gas Works at Old Lenton is on the right. The fields on the right are part of the flood plain for the River Leen. The trees on the towpath side are part of Wollaton Park.

[mark99]

3 hours ago, Chris M Jones said:

The location looks like the Nottingham Canal. The photographer is standing at the head of Hickling’s Lock 4, with the lock by-wash in the foreground and looking north to Simpson’s Lock 5. Nottingham Corporation Gas Works at Old Lenton is on the right. The fields on the right are part of the flood plain for the River Leen. The trees on the towpath side are part of Wollaton Park.

The gasholders look too close, below is Notts aerial view in the 20's. Where is the canal?  PS the gas holder foreground is very similar Chris! (but this could be Notts ordering gasholder type "X" from the contractors "as used at Southall"). Will look a bit further. Thank you.

Edited November 24, 2023 by mark99

[Chris M Jones]

Here is a map showing the locks and the gas works.

[magnetman]

It looks spot on to me. 

 

I wonder if the wall is still there even if the canal isn't. 

 

 

[mark99]

Notts theory - he is "downstream" of ther holder but upstream of the lock - how can that be?

 

Unless it's camera trickery (reversing) which is hard for me to understand.

 

Bear with me!  😆

Simpsons lock on my map..... he is upstream of this?

 

Edit.

 

Hang on no you said in between locks.......... so could be possible. Will think a bit more in the morning. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by mark99

[Captain Pegg]

Looks like a top bit of sleuthing to me.

[magnetman]

The area seems to have changed a little 

 

 

 

 

Interesting bit of an old wall beside the scout hut. 

 

Maybe part of the wall in the old photo? 

 

 

 

The old map does clearly show the weir just above the lock which is also in the old photo. 

 

I think @Chris M Jones got this one right. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by magnetman

[Derek R.]

Image from upstream of Hicklings lock, looking towards Simpsons.

Gets my vote.

[mark99]

44 minutes ago, Derek R. said:

Image from upstream of Hicklings lock, looking towards Simpsons.

Gets my vote.

 

It is (Notts) very compelling in numerous ways. The only thing going against it is the closeness of the 2nd gas holder. But there could have been phases of holders added so this may not be a killer.

 

The "Hanwell" big downer is how close the holder looks to the canal. But the lock flank walls looks the same as google view today as the old image at Hanwell. But this may be the same for a lot of locks (the walls look the same shape looking back).

 

I have to say Chris, I'm 98% certain you are right re-looking at the evidence. Great find.

Edited November 25, 2023 by mark99

[magnetman]

I think the wall is probably to keep the plebs away from The stately home which had Lenton Lodge as their gatehouse. Wall looks the same in the Historic England image

 

 

If one has something like this then one -would- build a substantial wall alongside a nearby canal. There is no way you wouldn't. 

 

Lenton Lodge (image above) is very close to the site of the photo. 

 

 

 

The wall is what made someone think it was Hanwell but its a stately home wall not a loony bin wall. 

 

 

Wollaton Hall is the house and yes the owners did have concerns 

 

1881

The house was still owned by the head of the Willoughby family, Digby Willoughby, 9th Baron Middleton, but by then the Willoughbys considered it “too near the smoke and busy activity of a large manufacturing town”.

 

I suspect 'busy activity' could include the ruddy canal and gas works. Wall it orf but its still there and a little discombobulating. 

 

[magnetman]

 

Looks like the same type of boat. Maybe even the same one. 

Centre cabin with side access. 

(image from Nottingham Post)

The lock, the wall and the gas holder

 

[mark99]

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

 

Looks like the same type of boat. Maybe even the same one. 

Centre cabin with side access. 

(image from Nottingham Post)

The lock, the wall and the gas holder

 

Good find!

[magnetman]

That Lenton Lodge building looks to me like inspiration for the roses and castles. 

 

I reckon the roses and castles thing was the poor downtrodden toilers on the boats making a point that they know their hard work is making someone else a lot of money.