Replacing Thetfor Caprice cooker

[LadyG]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

So you are getting a 12V Fridge that one assumes will be in the galley. That means there is/are exposed 12V cables. Whilst maybe not ideal, I think you could hide a cable run from back of fridge to cooker easily enough at the back of the "units". If there is not one already it would require a switch installing by the fridge, so you can leave the igniter energised, but the fridge turned off. This whole thing makes little sense to me. You are in a limited market, so there is limited choice, you have to do your best with what is available. Each non-negotiable item you specify, like a black glass top, the harder you make things for yourself.

I already have a black glass topped cooker, they are quite common. 

If I'm going yo spend £2000 on a new galley I'm going to have everything smart. I even want black glass top over the sink!!

If its  dated like my present galley there is no point in replacing with dated and scruffy  

The new fridge will replace the old fridge., the new cooker will replace the old cooker, though I might just as well keep this one if I can get the screws out of ghe burners, but last time I looked at buying new burners and the pot stand it was £500 v new cooker about £850.

There is 12v cabling, but if I don't have to start ripping existing cabling and cable housing for the sake of electronic ignition, I won't  do it, obviously if I ever found a real boat electrician that would be different., but he won't be good at gas, or good at carpentry.

You may think that all these skills are commonplace, they are not.

Today's task is to get my vhf aerial replaced, the guy who fitted the solar made a mess of the job

1 )  the solar input cable is not fixed in the cable, it is completely loose , held in by gravity

2) he did not cut the solar cables to length, so there is a loop about ten inches between cable  and solar controller

3) removed a bit of trim for some unknown reason. Told me he would replace it but forgot, I only found it a year later.

4 ) Removed trunking cover to see if he could fit solar cabling, it was too small, though there is a lage cable houseing running all along the boat.

5 ) removed the vhf aerial from original sollar panels 

I sent him to get tanallised wooden supports for panels, , he came back with two, three were needed.

PS I had all my batteries replaced and checked. Three years later I could smell H2S, there was yet another huge battery connected to the system.

So these are examples of the kind of people who take my cash.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by LadyG

[haggis]

7 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I already have a black glass topped cooker, they are quite common. 

 

 

Ah, sorry, I thought you planned to replace the work surfaces with black glass looking stuff not just have a cooker with a glass top which I agree is quite popular. On Kelpie we have glass tops over the cooker and sink and I can't remember ever putting either one down but I do remember trying to clean them and the little bit of work surface behind them 🙂 .

[MtB]

13 minutes ago, LadyG said:

If I'm going yo spend £2000 on a new galley I'm going to have everything smart. 

 

 

£2,000 is only gonna get you a bargain basement galley. Cheapest of everthing.

 

I think £15k would be a more realistic budget for a new galley with the types of features you keep mentioning. 

 

 

Including the labour to install it, that is.

 

 

 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

Where you looking for 50cm LPG cooker? You can get them for a lot less than £850. 

https://www.argos.co.uk/search/lpg-gas-cookers/?cmpid=gg05x&&_$ja=tsid:13541|acid:551-773-6494|cid:10199490179|agid:101655231323|tid:dsa-412853775576|crid:439034649102|nw:g|rnd:17007434857983111345|dvc:m|adp:|mt:|loc:1006691&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=10199490179&utm_term=&utm_content=text&utm_custom1=101655231323&utm_custom2=551-773-6494&cmpid=GG05X&GPDP=true&gbraid=0AAAAAD9II9nqAxXY3cPC1L211bl45yEzM&gclid=CjwKCAjwjaWoBhAmEiwAXz8DBb67VyIdMnMpAAY8kKmNnh2Qa-rF9aDsdQYFQGLjFT6KJlPo0syEoRoCMZQQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Edited September 19, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[LadyG]

I'm not spending the money to make a profit 

It won't be £15k, for Labour, its a two day job on the boat  and one day off the boat. Everything is already there, 

Cooker is £850

Sink is £200,  the existing one Would actually be OK 

Fridge is £400 to £850

New oak doors, four off, are about £125. The hinges and fittings are existing.

A bit of fettling is required, that's another day's labour at worst.

I need a four metre worktop, use the old ones as a stencil. No need to measure.

If anyone quotes £15K I won't use them.i could do the cabinetry myself if I had the tools, an assistant, and power, it could not be easier. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by LadyG

[Ewan123]

14 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I'm not spending the money to make a profit 

It won't be £15k, for Labour, its a two day job on the boat  and one day off the boat. Everything is already there, 

Cooker is £850

Sink is £200,  the existing one Would actually be OK 

Fridge is £400 to £850

New oak doors, four off, are about £125. The hinges and fittings are existing.

A bit of fettling is required, that's another day's labour at worst.

I need a four metre worktop, use the old ones as a stencil. No need to measure.

If anyone quotes £15K I won't use them.i could do the cabinetry myself if I had the tools, an assistant, and power, it could not be easier. 

 

 

 

 

 

If you get it done to a good standard for £2000, please let me know who does it (seriously!). I didn't get a quote much below £5000 I think it was, for off-the-shelf type cabinets to be fitted (once you include removal of the old stuff and the gas fitting).

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I'm not spending the money to make a profit 

It won't be £15k, for Labour, its a two day job on the boat  and one day off the boat. Everything is already there, 

Cooker is £850

Sink is £200,  the existing one Would actually be OK 

Fridge is £400 to £850

New oak doors, four off, are about £125. The hinges and fittings are existing.

A bit of fettling is required, that's another day's labour at worst.

I need a four metre worktop, use the old ones as a stencil. No need to measure.

If anyone quotes £15K I won't use them.i could do the cabinetry myself if I had the tools, an assistant, and power, it could not be easier. 

Have you had any quotes yet, or are you just working costings out to what you think you should pay?

 Your pricing for what your fridge and cooker is worth is a bit questionable, maybe if you going to buy new like for like, but you can get perfectly adequate for less than £500 the pair, that will look virtually the same and do the same job.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Have you had any quotes yet, or are you just working costings out to what you think you should pay?

 Your pricing for what your fridge and cooker is worth is a bit questionable, maybe if you going to buy new like for like, but you can get perfectly adequate for less than £500 the pair, that will look virtually the same and do the same job.

 

 

I would like to go and look at some of these items, but its not easy.

I know I can get cheaper, but until I am at a boatyard willing to do the job, I am estimating on the better units. I'm not interested in the best oven, I'm interested in the same dimensions and looking good.

 

PS of someone can tell me how to get the s/s threaded bolts off the burners, I can just service the burners , buy a new chrome grid and live with this cooker.

It's about a year since  they were inserted, so it's not going to be corrosion.

I have tried all my cross screwdriver things, but I think they are getting knurled., and only the original brass one retracts.

[Ewan123]

54 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I would like to go and look at some of these items, but its not easy.

I know I can get cheaper, but until I am at a boatyard willing to do the job, I am estimating on the better units. I'm not interested in the best oven, I'm interested in the same dimensions and looking good.

 

PS of someone can tell me how to get the s/s threaded bolts off the burners, I can just service the burners , buy a new chrome grid and live with this cooker.

It's about a year since  they were inserted, so it's not going to be corrosion.

I have tried all my cross screwdriver things, but I think they are getting knurled., and only the original brass one retracts.

Which bolts - do you have a picture? 

[LadyG]

They are the two tiny threaded bolt things that hold the flame spreader on to burner, tiny. Machine screws with cross heads.

The originals were brass, one is still there, l can get it out.

I am afraid to attempt any more with the s\s as they are too small to drill out, 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

17 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I am afraid to attempt any more with the s\s as they are too small to drill out,

 

Maybe for you to drill out, but as I said earlier I have done that job. Some came out and some snapped. I may even have had to drill the top of one or two.

 

Once you get the caps off and give the broken set screws a good soak with penetrating oil those with longer remains may work out with decent pliers.

 

Any remaining ones I cut flush with a Dermel like tool and drilled and tapped them. I can't remember the tap size, but I have a feeling it was M3 or M4.

 

Even though one did drill off-centre it still tapped enough to secure the cap.

 

I put the new ones in with Copperslip grease.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

47 minutes ago, Ewan123 said:

Which bolts - do you have a picture? 

I think they are these ones:

 

 

[Ewan123]

20 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

I think they are these ones:

 

 

That's the ones I assume LadyG is referring to, same as on my Caprice 2020. I can only say there was no trick to getting mine undone (reduced flame from the rings turned out to be due to a load of rust flakes from the black top blocking the gas), except that quite a few have worn to the point that no screwdriver can gain purchase on the head now. WD40 might help if they're not too far gone...

We're about to condemn ours and replace it too. Shame as I quite like the weird green colour, they're all just white/black/silver now!

Edited September 19, 2023 by Ewan123

[Tony Brooks]

I am sure that those are the ones. I think one of the problems may be a lack of practical ability. I am sure that I used a hammer on the screwdriver (or a flat punch) to shock the screws downwards a few times and also put as much of my wight onto the driver with a pair of grips around the thin part of the handle and worried some out. I also wonder if LadyG knows the difference between a Philips and Pozidrive cross heads. If you don't match them, the driver is likely to twist out of the slots and damage the head.

[LadyG]

26 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I am sure that those are the ones. I think one of the problems may be a lack of practical ability. I am sure that I used a hammer on the screwdriver (or a flat punch) to shock the screws downwards a few times and also put as much of my wight onto the driver with a pair of grips around the thin part of the handle and worried some out. I also wonder if LadyG knows the difference between a Philips and Pozidrive cross heads. If you don't match them, the driver is likely to twist out of the slots and damage the head.

The one s/s threaded  machine screw that came out is dry, but though the head is intact I still can't tell which screwdriver I should be using , all candidates turn that machine screw, sigh.

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, Ewan123 said:

That's the ones I assume LadyG is referring to, same as on my Caprice 2020. I can only say there was no trick to getting mine undone (reduced flame from the rings turned out to be due to a load of rust flakes from the black top blocking the gas), except that quite a few have worn to the point that no screwdriver can gain purchase on the head now. WD40 might help if they're not too far gone...

We're about to condemn ours and replace it too. Shame as I quite like the weird green colour, they're all just white/black/silver now!

 

Same as the ones on our Thetford Aspire, but each burner only has one, not two screws.. I had a stubborn one but managed to free it with some proper penertrating oil. The back side was well corroded but cleaned up nicely, along with the burner it sits on. It much improved the flames.

 

Refitted them with a tiny bit of copaslip.

[LadyG]

52 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I am sure that those are the ones. I think one of the problems may be a lack of practical ability. I am sure that I used a hammer on the screwdriver (or a flat punch) to shock the screws downwards a few times and also put as much of my wight onto the driver with a pair of grips around the thin part of the handle and worried some out. I also wonder if LadyG knows the difference between a Philips and Pozidrive cross heads. If you don't match them, the driver is likely to twist out of the slots and damage the head.

I have about two dozen screwdriver heads, including sets of tiny ones ,  somewhere there will be the correct one, certainly managed to get the brass one out easy

but I don't know what I am dealing with.

I have tried all my small ones that are actual screwdrivers, that look pointy.... about three of them, but none of the screws stuck in the burners have turned.

I'll just try some thin oil, but I doubt if anything will penetrate . I dont even have three in one .

It's impossible to tell what they are from my screw drivers, all three candidates will turn the screw which does turn.

I'll get some copper grease and insist the guy uses it if i have to call him out.

Sorry this is disjointed, bad signal this afternoon and I'm trying to prep boat for  journey on the Trent on Friday. 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I have about two dozen screwdriver heads, including sets of tiny ones ,  somewhere there will be the correct one, certainly managed to get the brass one out easy

but I don't know what I am dealing with.

I have tried all my small ones that are actual screwdrivers, that look pointy.... about three of them, but none of the screws stuck in the burners have turned.

I'll just try some thin oil, but I doubt if anything will penetrate . I dont even have three in one .

It's impossible to tell what the my are from my screw drivers, all three candidates will turn the screw which does turn.

 

 

This should help you tell the difference:

 

https://www.pbswisstools.com/en/news/detail/phillips-and-pozidriv-cross-head-screws-explained-in-simple-terms

[LadyG]

I think they might be Phillips I just can't be sure, they have been in place for a while, and of course cleaned most days 

I've tried a torch and magnification, none of the heads are perfect,, they are all chewed to a degree.

Most of my screwdrivers are rusty Phillips, chewed up and used for paint stirring by the look of it, I do have some unused small sets, 

[Tony Brooks]

Looking at the online images, I can not see the fur little lines that form a start between the Pozidrive slots so that suggest that you are correct, they are Philips.

 

I doubt thin oil will help much and that goes for Plusgas penetrating oil if applied to the top of the burner cap, it needs to be around where the screw goes into the aluminium burner housing.

 

You need to try to shock the threads a bit, I would use an old screwdriver and hammer to strike downwards onto the screw a few times, but be gentle because the burner assembly is only fixed to some thinnish pressed metal.

 

If you can find a bit or screwdriver that seems to fit the slots in the screw, you may find it helps to put something around the base of the handle to act as a lever and bear down with as much force as you can muster. Start to try doing it UP a little, then undo a little, do up, undo and repeat. I try to put my chest on top of the screwdriver, steadying it with one hand while using the other had on whatever you have put on the handle.

[LadyG]

27 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Looking at the online images, I can not see the fur little lines that form a start between the Pozidrive slots so that suggest that you are correct, they are Philips.

 

I doubt thin oil will help much and that goes for Plusgas penetrating oil if applied to the top of the burner cap, it needs to be around where the screw goes into the aluminium burner housing.

 

You need to try to shock the threads a bit, I would use an old screwdriver and hammer to strike downwards onto the screw a few times, but be gentle because the burner assembly is only fixed to some thinnish pressed metal.

 

If you can find a bit or screwdriver that seems to fit the slots in the screw, you may find it helps to put something around the base of the handle to act as a lever and bear down with as much force as you can muster. Start to try doing it UP a little, then undo a little, do up, undo and repeat. I try to put my chest on top of the screwdriver, steadying it with one hand while using the other had on whatever you have put on the handle.

Ok, ty, I'll wait for a while, might try pipe cleaners if those are available, not urgent, thanks all.

[Ianws]

34 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Ok, ty, I'll wait for a while, might try pipe cleaners if those are available, not urgent, thanks all.

Why not try a couple of the things @Tony Brooks has helpfully suggested. only needs a screwdriver and a hammer.

 

[LadyG]

10 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Looking at the online images, I can not see the fur little lines that form a start between the Pozidrive slots so that suggest that you are correct, they are Philips.

 

I doubt thin oil will help much and that goes for Plusgas penetrating oil if applied to the top of the burner cap, it needs to be around where the screw goes into the aluminium burner housing.

 

You need to try to shock the threads a bit, I would use an old screwdriver and hammer to strike downwards onto the screw a few times, but be gentle because the burner assembly is only fixed to some thinnish pressed metal.

 

If you can find a bit or screwdriver that seems to fit the slots in the screw, you may find it helps to put something around the base of the handle to act as a lever and bear down with as much force as you can muster. Start to try doing it UP a little, then undo a little, do up, undo and repeat. I try to put my chest on top of the screwdriver, steadying it with one hand while using the other had on whatever you have put on the handle.

 

9 hours ago, Ianws said:

Why not try a couple of the things @Tony Brooks has helpfully suggested. only needs a screwdriver and a hammer.

 

Those images are not mine, I have not managed to get my photos  uploaded.

 

It's not urgent, and I suspect someone with more strength could manage better than I.

[blackrose]

On 18/09/2023 at 10:01, Chewbacka said:

I am not aware of any BSS requirement that a stove with electronic ignition must have a working ignition unit - so long as this does not affect the flame failure shut off device.  

 

Correct. I don't understand why anyone thinks not having electronic ignition night be a bss fail?

 

However, my hob is mains ignition so it's not difficult to connect. You just plug it in. That means either having shore power or an inverter switched on. I don't know about 12v ignition. Don't you just connect red & black plus a fuse as usual? Some people seem to find problems where none exist.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

15 hours ago, LadyG said:

Most of my screwdrivers are rusty Phillips, chewed up and used for paint stirring by the look of it, I do have some unused small sets, 

 

I've tried a torch and magnification, none of the heads are perfect,, they are all chewed to a degree.

 

I’ve reversed your reply sentences above, now it makes more sense to see why your screw heads are u/s. Once again you seamed to have caused yourself an issue with your self maintenance, you obviously don't look after your tools and yet expect them to do the job😂

Edited September 20, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth