Boat Surveys

[Chevetter]

Hey everyone,

 

I've just registered as I'm looking at buying my first boat - for use as a liveaboard!

 

Because I'm not a rich man I can only afford old boats and I'm becoming increasing concerned the more I read about the condition that the old hulls are in.

 

There is one boat in particular which I am seriously thinking of buying. Before I commit, however, I'd like to get a survey done. I was wondering how much this costs and how exactly you go about it. Presumably the buyer pays? I'd guess I'd have to factor in the cost of craning the boat out of the water or a dry dock? Is there any kind of standard practice in these situations?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Lady Muck]

It can vary in cost. The tricky thing is finding a boatyard that can do crane -out and a surveyor that is free on the same day. I found the solution to this problem is to approach the boatyard, organise the crane out and book a surveyor through them, it seemed to be the only way we could get the dates to marry up, because everyone was so ridiculously busy!

Edited December 7, 2007 by Lady Muck

[Yoda]

Hey everyone,

 

I've just registered as I'm looking at buying my first boat - for use as a liveaboard!

 

Because I'm not a rich man I can only afford old boats and I'm becoming increasing concerned the more I read about the condition that the old hulls are in.

 

There is one boat in particular which I am seriously thinking of buying. Before I commit, however, I'd like to get a survey done. I was wondering how much this costs and how exactly you go about it. Presumably the buyer pays? I'd guess I'd have to factor in the cost of craning the boat out of the water or a dry dock? Is there any kind of standard practice in these situations?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

If you are thinking of a steel or wood narrow boat, make sure you have a survey, which you have to pay for. GRP boats will sink if there are any hidden holes so you might find a bargin there. In all, welcome and good luck with your quest.

[Chevetter]

If you are thinking of a steel or wood narrow boat, make sure you have a survey, which you have to pay for. GRP boats will sink if there are any hidden holes so you might find a bargin there. In all, welcome and good luck with your quest.

 

I'm only looking at steel boats. Could anyone give me a rough idea of costs please? e.g. How much did it cost you?

[Lady Muck]

£260 crane out, £40 pressure wash and £300 survey last year.

 

You need the pressure wash to get all the weed and gunk off the hull before it's inspected.

 

The survey took most of the day and we accompanied the surveyor during his inspection. I don't know whether it's standard practise, but he seemed to want us there and we learnt a lot.

Edited December 7, 2007 by Lady Muck

[MoominPapa]

There is one boat in particular which I am seriously thinking of buying. Before I commit, however, I'd like to get a survey done. I was wondering how much this costs and how exactly you go about it. Presumably the buyer pays? I'd guess I'd have to factor in the cost of craning the boat out of the water or a dry dock? Is there any kind of standard practice in these situations?

 

I don't know all the possibilities, but I can tell you what what happened when I had a survey done this week. You are right that the buyer pays for both the survey and the craning. The contract I signed with the broker has provisions for the vendor to pay my costs only in the case that the vendor withdraws; if I withdraw (because of the survey results or any other reason) I still have to pay, in fact I paid the surveyor direct. I'm expecting an invoice from the boatyard for the craning.

 

Craning out (and putting back, same day) a 60ft boat will be about £280 which is probably expensive, as these things go. I had no real choice as I couldn't take the boat elsewhere. I had quotes from surveyors in the range £500-£600 for a full survey. I believe you can get just the hull surveyed. I was there whilst the survey was done, and about half the time was spent on the hull and half on the rest, (engine, electrics, gas etc) so I'd guess a hull-only survey would be very roughly half that figure.

 

As to how to go about stuff, I took the long list of surveyors that the brokerage had, and called people until I found someone who charged a reasonable price, was available on the day the crane was due, and who I thought I could work with. Part of that was someone who didn't mind if I was there during the survey and was perpared to point stuff out to me "in the flesh". Once chosen, I told the brokers who I was using and they did the rest.

 

I got a report by email the day after the survey, and a paper copy by post the day after that. The surveyor answered a couple of extra questions I had by email within an hour.

 

I guess the only other wisdom I can give is to do as much homework as possible before getting a surveyor in, and agree a price for the boat. Don't expect to knock the vendors price down for small stuff after the survey, by the time you're £500-£1000 in, you have much less leverage to get the price down by threatening to walk away. On the other hand, if the surveyor points out several thousand pounds worth of work that needs doing, a report is a good bargaining tool (assuming you want to do that work, and not walk away.)

 

 

Good Luck

 

Simon.

[grahoom]

I'm only looking at steel boats. Could anyone give me a rough idea of costs please? e.g. How much did it cost you?

 

 

i had a full survey done recently, which was 500 - for just a hull survey and engine it would have been 300 - getting the boat out of the water was 230 - so in total it's quite costly. - it turned out that the survey flagged up some quite major issues, and i didn't end up buying the boat. - but that's the risk you take really. - hope that helps.

[AlanH]

I'm only looking at steel boats. Could anyone give me a rough idea of costs please? e.g. How much did it cost you?

I've just had a hull only survey done prior to buying a 1994 42ft boat. It cost me £100 for the dry dock and £225 for the survey.

I managed to book the dry dock fairly quickly and then rang round surveyors to find one who could come on that day.

[blackrose]

I'm only looking at steel boats. Could anyone give me a rough idea of costs please? e.g. How much did it cost you?

A full survey could range from £300 - £500 perhaps? Drydocking, slippage or cranage for the day £150 - £250. Depends where you are in the country to some extent.

 

You have to understand that although you should have a survey done (and in many cases you'll need this to take out fully-comp insurance if you buy the boat), it's all a bit of a gamble. If the survey turns out to be bad and the hull is unsound for example, you would be wise to walk away. You then also walk away from the money you invested in the survey. For this reason try to get a good surveyor who would also agree on a reduced rate for any subsequent survey on a second boat.

 

If there is an old survey available for viewing on any boat you're interested in it can give you a pointer as to whether it's worth commissioning your own survey. However you must be aware that an old survey doesn't legally transfer to a new purchaser may have even been doctored, so you should always have your own done.

 

If you make any verbal or written agreement with the vendor on the price you're willing to pay this should always include the phrase "subject to survey." Problems picked up by a survey can then be a good negotiating tool that you can use to reduce the agreed price. However, if the survey reveals major problems do not be tempted to take them on for the sake of not 'losing' the money you just paid for the survey. Walk away!

 

I've just had a hull only survey done prior to buying a 1994 42ft boat. It cost me £100 for the dry dock and £225 for the survey.I managed to book the dry dock fairly quickly and then rang round surveyors to find one who could come on that day.

That was cheap! Edited December 7, 2007 by blackrose

[John Orentas]

Hi Chevetta.

 

Just looked up your location in order to reply, I notice you have not entered a shread of information about yourself.

[Chevetter]

Hi Chevetta.

 

Just looked up your location in order to reply, I notice you have not entered a shread of information about yourself.

 

 

Sorry is that a forum faux-pas? Well I am in Cambridge, but the boat that I am looking at is to the south-west of Birmingham.

[Lady Muck]

Ours was a full survey for £300 - we were very satisfied with it, yes.

[moggyjo]

My partner got his dutch barge out this summer he had not had a survey done since buying it in Holland 7 years ago and wanted to make sure the hull was sound, as it was built in 1914 of 6mm steel. Anyway the surveyor said he could not get ultrasound readings as the tar was stuck solid onto the hull, he got some from the inside that measured around 4mm (don't know if the tar would affect the reeding) but on the report they always have a get out clause saying to the best of their ability and could not get to certain areas etc so my partner is none the wiser now and £300 down. I had a survey done once, was told boat was ok, then when I was scraping rust from around the bow, suddenly I could see daylight through it and it was below the water line! Another one done by another surveyor was given the ok and a few weeks later it sank! there is no comeback (I don't think) because of their get out clause, which makes me wonder if its worth getting one done at all. Giving the hull a good bash with a hammer all over will give you a good idea when you get to notice the difference of tones, ie thick and thin steel, where bearers are etc.. I would now only pay for one being done if it was needed for insurance after normally when a boat is 20 years old, you don't need one before then for fully comp insurance and with craftinsure.com I think its 30 years untill they want the boat out for a survey, hope this helps

[magnetman]

I agree entirely. £300 buys a really wicked hammer. Only problem is if you get someone else's boat out and bash a hole in it who's liable for the repairs? Methinks the hammer holder.

[Chevetter]

Well I think I'm going to need a survey for the insurance anyway as the boat is from the 70s, so I guess there's no option but to haul her out.

 

I was thinking of offering a deal to the owner: I pay for the boat to be pulled out and surveyed. If I'm still agreeable to buying the boat after the survey then the cost gets knocked off the purchase price. Conversely, if I decide to walk away then I still foot the bill and he gets a free survey. If the survey is ok then obviously I'll want to black and re-anode the boat while she's out.

 

Does anyone see any problems with this? Would you agree to it if it were your boat?

 

 

@ Blackrose - you said "However you must be aware that an old survey doesn't legally transfer to a new purchaser." Does this still apply if I pay for the survey myself, despite not being the owner?

[Teadaemon]

I agree entirely. £300 buys a really wicked hammer. Only problem is if you get someone else's boat out and bash a hole in it who's liable for the repairs? Methinks the hammer holder.

 

It is if you do it yourself, if you employ a surveyor and they bash a hole in the boat that you're surveying, it's still you, as they're acting as your agent.

[Yoda]

It is if you do it yourself, if you employ a surveyor and they bash a hole in the boat that you're surveying, it's still you, as they're acting as your agent.

 

That's not what you mean but we understand.

 

Any holes bashed, don't buy it!!!

[magnetman]

If a surveyor puts a hole in a boat while preparing a surface for ultrasonic testing (angle grinder? Pressure wash? ) or hammer testing who is legally responsible for repairs which are required to make the boat float like it did before it was slipped/docked/craned? The surveyor, their client or the boat owner??

[MoominPapa]

"However you must be aware that an old survey doesn't legally transfer to a new purchaser." Does this still apply if I pay for the survey myself, despite not being the owner?

 

The survey carries the name of the person who commissioned and paid for it. If you pay for the survey, you have a contract with the surveyor and if he misses something, you have some come-back. If you give or sell the survey to someone else, they have the information in the survey, but if that information turns out to be wrong, they _don't_ have any come-back against the surveyor. The relevant condition in the survey I have says: " This report, ... is intended for your sole use, or that of your advisers. Liability is not extended to any third party or subsequent holder. "

[Stonker]

Well I think I'm going to need a survey for the insurance anyway as the boat is from the 70s, so I guess there's no option but to haul her out.

 

I was thinking of offering a deal to the owner: I pay for the boat to be pulled out and surveyed. If I'm still agreeable to buying the boat after the survey then the cost gets knocked off the purchase price. Conversely, if I decide to walk away then I still foot the bill and he gets a free survey. If the survey is ok then obviously I'll want to black and re-anode the boat while she's out.

 

Does anyone see any problems with this? Would you agree to it if it were your boat?

@ Blackrose - you said "However you must be aware that an old survey doesn't legally transfer to a new purchaser." Does this still apply if I pay for the survey myself, despite not being the owner?

 

I don't see a problem, it's almost what I did when I bought my present boat. I paid for the dry-dock and got a surveyor in to do a full survey, also had the owner there as it was a private sale and I reckoned it would be easier if there were any problems identified then he would know exactly what they were. The surveyor was happy with this too. There were no problems, I didn't expect any as I had already spent 3 hours with a checklist going over all the points I wanted to check on the boat before making an offer.

 

Also had a new Boat Safety certificate exam done at the same time by my surveyor and the owner paid for that as I made it a condition of the sale that it have a new BSC even though the existing one still had a year to run. I think that is particularly important as the BSC only reflects what the examiner saw on the day it was issued as non-compliant items could have been taken out and then re-instated.

 

The boat stayed in the dry dock for another day and the owner blacked it, also a condition of sale I stipulated. The owner would have blacked it anyway while it was out of the water as it was just about due but this way he saved the cost of the dry dock. I took lots of pictures whilst it was out of the water as you don't always get a chance to do this.

 

If you decide to walk away you should offer to sell the survey to the owner to offset your costs.

 

Stewart

[smileypete]

Well I think I'm going to need a survey for the insurance anyway as the boat is from the 70s, so I guess there's no option but to haul her out.

 

I was thinking of offering a deal to the owner: I pay for the boat to be pulled out and surveyed. If I'm still agreeable to buying the boat after the survey then the cost gets knocked off the purchase price. Conversely, if I decide to walk away then I still foot the bill and he gets a free survey. If the survey is ok then obviously I'll want to black and re-anode the boat while she's out.

 

Does anyone see any problems with this? Would you agree to it if it were your boat?

 

I'd ask the seller whether they're prepared to drop the price accordingly if the survey finds any major faults.

 

If the answer was not a positive 'yes' I'd walk (or run!) away.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[Amduck]

We had survey done this year. About 500 plus crane etc. sounds about right. As for not getting one done - I think it probably depends on how much you know about boats in the first place. As a novice, I found it really helpful to be there for the survey and get the surveyor to talk me through stuff. He was very helpful, happy to have me watch, and happy to answer (probably stupid) questions.

 

Full report followed promptly by email and by post. Defects were divided into BSC failures and others, and he was also happy to discuss how important these faults were, and how soon they'd need fixing. I think it was valuable to have an impartial view of this.

[blackrose]

Well I think I'm going to need a survey for the insurance anyway as the boat is from the 70s, so I guess there's no option but to haul her out.

 

I was thinking of offering a deal to the owner: I pay for the boat to be pulled out and surveyed. If I'm still agreeable to buying the boat after the survey then the cost gets knocked off the purchase price. Conversely, if I decide to walk away then I still foot the bill and he gets a free survey. If the survey is ok then obviously I'll want to black and re-anode the boat while she's out.

 

Does anyone see any problems with this? Would you agree to it if it were your boat?

Who knows, the vendor might go for it. It's worth a try.

 

@ Blackrose - you said "However you must be aware that an old survey doesn't legally transfer to a new purchaser." Does this still apply if I pay for the survey myself, despite not being the owner?

That doesn't matter - you are commisioning the survey and you don't need to be the owner of the boat to do that. If you buy the boat you are then the owner of the survey & boat, if you don't buy the boat none of it matters anyway.

 

If you just pulled out of the deal for some other reason and the findings of the survey were positive then the vendor might be interested in buying it cheaply from you. Of course the survey wouldn't then legally apply to the vendor because they didn't commission it, but it might make the boat easier to sell for him since it would make useful reading for any prospective purchaser.

Edited December 7, 2007 by blackrose

[Teadaemon]

If a surveyor puts a hole in a boat while preparing a surface for ultrasonic testing (angle grinder? Pressure wash? ) or hammer testing who is legally responsible for repairs which are required to make the boat float like it did before it was slipped/docked/craned? The surveyor, their client or the boat owner??

 

The surveyor's client would be liable for any damage caused by the surveyor during the course of a survey.

[magnetman]

Thanks for clarifying that point. that seems a tad bothersome to me I thought it'd be the surveyor.Thanks for clarifying that point. :D that seems a tad bothersome to me I thought it'd be the surveyor.