100 ah or 200ah LiFePO4 batteries

[magnetman]

If you are on the River please try to be quiet. A lot of people like it here when it is quiet. 

 

It is part of the point. 

 

I don't want to have to warm up the torpedoes. 

 

 

1 minute ago, Tony1 said:

 

Is this effectively banning the Bee Gees from being played anywhere on the Thames?

 

Remember that terrible quote about Nazi persecution: "First they took away the Bee Gees music, but I didn't protest because I still had working ears. Then they came for the Bob Dylan albums...."  

Dark times ahead, I fear. 

 

 

I like the Bee Gees and Bob Dylan a lot and they are on my play list but it is not appropriate in a pleasantly quiet area to assault other people's ears with things they may not like. 

 

Here lie problems and resentment. 

 

 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, magnetman said:

If you are on the River please try to be quiet. A lot of people like it here when it is quiet. 

 

It is part of the point. 

 

I don't want to have to warm up the torpedoes. 

 

 

I like the Bee Gees and Bob Dylan a lot and they are on my play list but it is not appropriate in a pleasantly quiet area to assault other people's ears with things they may not like. 

 

Here lie problems and resentment. 

 

 

Obviously! You should hear what we have to hear where we currently live. Personally to me the sound of nature is very loud. I don't make a persona centred around which type of music I listen to, and we have no need to be thought of in any particular way by our music tastes 😉 ..

 

But I think so far everyone on here is agreeing .. hence why we probably all live (or about to live) on boats ?! Personally I'm looking forward to hearing the night birds . 

 

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If you are having a boat built, it is an ideal time to have a quiet generator (water cooled & cacooned) installed - it will add some £10,000 to the price but what price (realtive) quiet ?

You should look to have a 1500rpm generator as they are much quieter than a 3000 rpm generator (these sound almost like a lawn mower, or motorbike)

But not a chance for us ! We are nearly at rock bottom from buying it ! 

Edited August 25, 2023 by MrshappyH

[Tony1]

22 minutes ago, magnetman said:

If you are on the River please try to be quiet. A lot of people like it here when it is quiet. 

 

It is part of the point. 

 

I don't want to have to warm up the torpedoes. 

 

 

I like the Bee Gees and Bob Dylan a lot and they are on my play list but it is not appropriate in a pleasantly quiet area to assault other people's ears with things they may not like. 

 

Here lie problems and resentment. 

 

 

 

My dear fellow, you can stand down the torpedo tubes. 

I never play music outside of the boat, and when I play it inside, it is at no more than normal speech volume, at the very most. If it's evening, it is practically a whisper.

One has to be acutely aware of the level of any sound on the waterways, and I must say I've heard very little noise nuisance this summer, although I have been skulking away down on the Weaver, where one meets a better class of boater. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Tony1

[Alan de Enfield]

39 minutes ago, MrshappyH said:

But not a chance for us ! We are nearly at rock bottom from buying it ! 

 

What sort of generator are you thinking of ?

 

1) Remember that you are 'advised' not to run a 'portable' generator on the boat, the exhaust is not designed to take the fumes away from the boat (as in a fixed installation) A gas-safe engineer decided to make his "portable generator" into a fixed generator by altering the exhaust and running the generator on the boat, he killed his girlfriend and their daughter with Carbon Moxode poisoning - you'd have thought that considering his profession he'd have known better.

 

2) Remember that if you get a portable petrol generator you come under additional regulations for petrol storage (and generator storage )

 

3) Remember if you get a 'builders' diesel generator (in a cradle) it will be heard 10 miles away, and it's quite possible that it will accidentally 'fall in the canal' and you'll certainly (shall we say) not make any friends.

 

If you are going to be relying on a generator to see you thru the 4-6 months when there is insufficient Sun you need to plan ahead and buy the proper one. Whats your life of your family worth ?

 

From the BSS ...........

 

 

Boat Safety Scheme (BSS), made this blunt statement in light of the fatalities and injuries that have taken place on boats across the UK in recent years; devastating events that could have been avoided if the correct safety measures were taken.

Petrol generators can be seen as critical to some boaters wanting off-grid electrical power. Yet the fact that generators emit deadly carbon monoxide and need refuelling with highly flammable petrol means they must be never be installed in an enclosed cockpit area or engine space of a boat and must never be used on or close to the boat where exhaust fumes could enter the boat and where they can cause injuries or fatalities.

Graham Watts, BSS manager, Boat Safety Scheme says,

“On too many occasions we hear of fatalities or near fatalities on boats caused by the incorrect use of portable generators. The heart-breaking thing is that on most occasions the accident could have been avoided, and lives saved, if generators are used according to manufacturer’s instructions – in the open and away from the boat.”

The BSS says that if boaters want to use generators, these three basic bullet points should be followed: -

• Never install a portable generator permanently or make unauthorised modifications that are not supported by the manufacturer, or proprietary component supplier.

• Never run generators on the boat, or on the bank near to the boat’s doors, vents, windows and hatches. If you can smell exhaust fumes in the boat, it could mean the cabin is also filling with deadly carbon monoxide.
• Never refuel any generator anywhere aboard the boat; take it to the bank and ensure you are a safe distance from other boats and potential sources of ignition.

 

Read and weep :

 

MAIB Report No 02/2015 - Arniston - Very Serious Marine Casualty (publishing.service.gov.uk)

 

SYNOPSIS On Monday 1 April 2013, the emergency services attended the motor cruiser Arniston on Windermere, Cumbria, where a mother and her daughter had been found unconscious. The two females were taken by air ambulance to Lancaster Royal Infirmary where they were pronounced deceased. A postmortem concluded that the cause of death was carbon monoxide poisoning. The subsequent MAIB investigation identified that: • The carbon monoxide poisoning had resulted from the inhalation of fumes emitted from a portable generator installed in the boat’s engine bay. • The external exhaust system fitted to the portable generator had been modified to incorporate a silencer that had become detached from both the generator and the outlet pipe to the vessel’s side. • The portable generator’s engine exhaust fumes filled the engine bay and spread through gaps in an internal bulkhead into the aft cabin where the mother and daughter were asleep. • The portable generator was not intended by its manufacturer to be installed into an enclosed space, nor was it intended to be modified in any way. • The improvised exhaust system attached to the generator was constructed from materials and using methods that were not appropriate for this application. • The boat’s occupants were not alerted to the danger because two carbon monoxide sensors fitted to the boat at build were out of date and had been disconnected from the power supply

 

 

Arniston’s owner was 39 years old. After leaving school he completed a heating and ventilation apprenticeship, during which he gained City and Guilds qualifications in pipe-fitting and welding. He was also on the ‘Gas Safe Register’4 , which is the official gas registration for the United Kingdom. In 2007, the owner started a business installing and servicing heating and ventilation systems in commercial premises

Edited August 25, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, magnetman said:

If you are on the River please try to be quiet. A lot of people like it here when it is quiet. 

 

It is part of the point. 

 

I don't want to have to warm up the torpedoes. 

 

 

I like the Bee Gees and Bob Dylan a lot and they are on my play list but it is not appropriate in a pleasantly quiet area to assault other people's ears with things they may not like. 

 

Here lie problems and resentment. 

 

 

torpedo joke was funny 🤣

[Tony1]

14 minutes ago, MrshappyH said:

Obviously! You should hear what we have to hear where we currently live. Personally to me the sound of nature is very loud. I don't make a personality with a persona centred around which type of music I listen to, and we have no need to be thought of in any particular way ..

 

But I think so far everyone on here is agreeing .. hence why we probably all live on boats ?! Personally I'm looking forward to hearing the night birds . 

 

But not a chance for us ! We are nearly at rock bottom from buying it ! 

 

Just a thought on this- one of those proper built-in gennies will be very expensive, but it might be possible, at a reasonable cost, to construct some kind of steel box or compartment on the stern that will fit a Honda EU20 suitcase generator.

The thing is, its pretty dangerous to run a genny on the open deck, because the CO fumes are heavier than air and can seep down the steps etc and enter the cabin. 

On the other hand, you dont want to be lugging a 20kg genny along a gangplank onto the bank every day, and a Honda genny is a perennial top target for thieves, if left in plain view.

Now this idea could raise a variety of Boat Safety issues, so it is just a thought really, but.... a padlockable gas locker on the stern might do the job, provided it has an exhaust pipe that goes over the back of the stern and down a few inches. 

 

EDIT: Just seen Alan's extract from the BSS and it looks like a genny in a stern locker is not allowed, so forget all that above.

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Tony1

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Tony1 said:

Deleted as Tony has amended his post. 

 

Just what the gas-safe guy thought and instead killed his girlfriend and daughter.

 

It is fine to do those sort of things to your own boat, but I'd suggest not a good idea to tell others to do the same. Rules, regulations and advice  are in place for good reason.

And, thats why generator manuals say 'do not do what you are suggesting'.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Tony1]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Just what the gas-safe guy thought and instead killed his rirlfriend and daughter.

 

It is fine to do those sort of things to your own boat, but I'd suggest not a good idea to tell other to do the same. Rules and regulations and advice  are in place for good reason.

 

Yes, I agree- I've edited that post above to withdraw that suggestion. 

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

What sort of generator are you thinking of ?

 

1) Remember that you are 'advised' not to run a 'portable' generator on the boat, the exhaust is not designed to take the fumes away from the boat (as in a fixed installation) A gas-safe engineer decide to make hiss "portable generator" into a fixed generator by altering the exhaust and running the generator on the boat, he killed his girlfriend and their daughter with Carbon Moxode poisoning - you'd have thought that considering his profession he'd have known better.

 

2) Remember that if you get a portable petrol generator you come under additional regulations for petrol storage (and generator storage )

 

3) Remember if you get a 'builders' diesel generator (in a cradle) it will be heard 10 miles away, and it's quite possible that it will accidentally 'fall in the canal' and you'll certainly (shall we say) not make any friends.

 

If you are going to be relying on a generator to see you thru the 4-6 months when there is insufficient Sun you need to plan ahead and buy the proper one. Whats your life of your family worth ?

 

From the BSS ...........

 

 

Boat Safety Scheme (BSS), made this blunt statement in light of the fatalities and injuries that have taken place on boats across the UK in recent years; devastating events that could have been avoided if the correct safety measures were taken.

Petrol generators can be seen as critical to some boaters wanting off-grid electrical power. Yet the fact that generators emit deadly carbon monoxide and need refuelling with highly flammable petrol means they must be never be installed in an enclosed cockpit area or engine space of a boat and must never be used on or close to the boat where exhaust fumes could enter the boat and where they can cause injuries or fatalities.

Graham Watts, BSS manager, Boat Safety Scheme says,

“On too many occasions we hear of fatalities or near fatalities on boats caused by the incorrect use of portable generators. The heart-breaking thing is that on most occasions the accident could have been avoided, and lives saved, if generators are used according to manufacturer’s instructions – in the open and away from the boat.”

The BSS says that if boaters want to use generators, these three basic bullet points should be followed: -

• Never install a portable generator permanently or make unauthorised modifications that are not supported by the manufacturer, or proprietary component supplier.

• Never run generators on the boat, or on the bank near to the boat’s doors, vents, windows and hatches. If you can smell exhaust fumes in the boat, it could mean the cabin is also filling with deadly carbon monoxide.
• Never refuel any generator anywhere aboard the boat; take it to the bank and ensure you are a safe distance from other boats and potential sources of ignition.

 

Read and weep :

 

MAIB Report No 02/2015 - Arniston - Very Serious Marine Casualty (publishing.service.gov.uk)

 

SYNOPSIS On Monday 1 April 2013, the emergency services attended the motor cruiser Arniston on Windermere, Cumbria, where a mother and her daughter had been found unconscious. The two females were taken by air ambulance to Lancaster Royal Infirmary where they were pronounced deceased. A postmortem concluded that the cause of death was carbon monoxide poisoning. The subsequent MAIB investigation identified that: • The carbon monoxide poisoning had resulted from the inhalation of fumes emitted from a portable generator installed in the boat’s engine bay. • The external exhaust system fitted to the portable generator had been modified to incorporate a silencer that had become detached from both the generator and the outlet pipe to the vessel’s side. • The portable generator’s engine exhaust fumes filled the engine bay and spread through gaps in an internal bulkhead into the aft cabin where the mother and daughter were asleep. • The portable generator was not intended by its manufacturer to be installed into an enclosed space, nor was it intended to be modified in any way. • The improvised exhaust system attached to the generator was constructed from materials and using methods that were not appropriate for this application. • The boat’s occupants were not alerted to the danger because two carbon monoxide sensors fitted to the boat at build were out of date and had been disconnected from the power supply

Noted. And very sad . We have a few options of where to put the generator , just deciding which one to get , thinking 3.5 kw petrol. Hoping to find a quiet one. It will be a portable, and quite far from boat . Thank you for the warning. (Shudder,).

[magnetman]

Learning to use a LOT less power is the key to living on a boat. If you are moving from a house or apartment to a boat which does not have mains water, lavatory and electric connections you will need to make massive adjustments. The sort of adjustments a lot* of people are not going to handle very well. 

 

If you are moving from a house or apartment to a boat which does have mains water, lavatory and electric connections you are going to have to make adjustments which a lot* of people are not going to handle very well. 

 

* A lot means two different things here. 

 

 

[TheBiscuits]

25 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

I have been skulking away down on the Weaver, where one meets a better class of boater

 

What, like the fat punk? 😁

 

I bet you've been comparing lithium's with him ...

[Tony1]

5 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

What, like the fat punk? 😁

 

I bet you've been comparing lithium's with him ...

 

Alas, such jealousy and bitterness. 

But typical of the social climbing peasants on the L+L. 

They probably wouldn't allow your sort down the boat lift. 

 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Learning to use a LOT less power is the key to living on a boat. If you are moving from a house or apartment to a boat which does not have mains water, lavatory and electric connections you will need to make massive adjustments. The sort of adjustments a lot* of people are not going to handle very well. 

 

If you are moving from a house or apartment to a boat which does have mains water, lavatory and electric connections you are going to have to make adjustments which a lot* of people are not going to handle very well. 

 

* A lot means two different things here. 

 

 

We don't use a lot of power . No hair straighteners or 56" TVs and it depends on the type of person you are as to what you can handle.... But people on boats aren't an elite group of super humans . They might have shared interests . It's impossible to fit out a boat and not be aware of the limitations. But we' re actually looking forward to being more focused and aware of our power usage. ( I think people should be more aware of their food too ( especially meat ) but I digress). We have already started with this during the cost of living crisis and being on a smart meter !! 

It is great to know you are making as little impact as possible on the planet. 

[Richard10002]

57 minutes ago, MrshappyH said:

Noted. And very sad . We have a few options of where to put the generator , just deciding which one to get , thinking 3.5 kw petrol. Hoping to find a quiet one. It will be a portable, and quite far from boat . Thank you for the warning. (Shudder,).

I used to use a Honda EU20i which was 21kg, and almost too heavy to keep carting it from boat to shore and back again.

 

I now have a Honda EU10i which is 13kg and much easier to cart about. It just manages to pump 60A into the batteries, whereas the EU20i could manage 80A.

 

My guess is that a 3.5kW genny might be too heavy,, which could lead to cutting corners.

[magnetman]

Those little EU10i gennies are terribly noisy when loaded. 

 

Back in the day I had a lovely Honda  EX650 which really was quiet but they don't make them any more and people want more power. 

 

60a from an EU10i it must be really howling like a banshee. 

 

(I have unusually sensitive hearing)

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, MrshappyH said:

Noted. And very sad . We have a few options of where to put the generator , just deciding which one to get , thinking 3.5 kw petrol. Hoping to find a quiet one. It will be a portable, and quite far from boat . Thank you for the warning. (Shudder,).

 

If you are thinking of something like this - you are making a huge mistake.

 

 

This is the sort of 'cradle generator' that will make enemies and that you'll find your electricity suddenly goes 'off', when you go out to investigate why all you'll see is some bubbles and an 'oily rainbow' on the water.

 

Are you really going to try & lift 55kgs (when fueled and oiled) on and off the boat every day and carry it 20 metres down-wind along the tow path ?

You are only legally allowed (by law) to carry 30 litres of petrol - this has a fuel tank of 15 litres, so you are going to be looking for petrol (probably) every couple of days and the petrol stations anywhere near the canals and rivers are few and far apart.

You really do need to consider what you are going to be doing on the boat.

[magnetman]

I thought the comment about placing the generator a distance away from the boat might have been a joke. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I thought the comment about placing the generator a distance away from the boat might have been a joke. 

 

 

 

No, it should be placed on the bankside down-wind of the boat (and any other boat) and to ensure that the exhaust fumes cannot enter the (or any other) boat via the doors, windows or vents.

 

It is all detailed in the BSS link / quote I attached earlier - post number ????

Edited August 25, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If you are thinking of something like this - you are making a huge mistake.

 

 

This is the sort of 'cradle generator' that will make enemies and that you'll find your electricity suddenly goes 'off', when you go out to investigate why all you'll see is some bubbles and an 'oily rainbow' on the water.

 

Are you really going to try & lift 55kgs (when fueled and oiled) on and off the boat every day and carry it 20 metres down-wind along the tow path ?

You are only legally allowed (by law) to carry 30 litres of petrol - this has a fuel tank of 15 litres, so you are going to be looking for petrol (probably) every couple of days and the petrol stations anywhere near the canals and rivers are few and far apart.

You really do need to consider what you are going to be doing on the boat.

Ok - several assumptions going on - that we have to move generator, that we are anywhere near anybody! Not a problem 

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is all detailed in the BSS link / quote I attached earlier - post number ????

 

I think it was our dear Athy who so vehemently opposed posts being numbered.

 

Now he appears to have gone, maybe we can have post numbers back! 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, MrshappyH said:

Ok - several assumptions going on - that we have to move generator,....................

 

One assumes that unless you have a very very very long lead and intend to leave the generator 'at  home' whilst you are cruising, you are going to need to lift the generator onto the boat (not an easy task - think of it like lifting two gas clinders at once), then when you moor up for the night you are going to follow the Boat Safety advice and lift your generator off the boat and take it down-wind of your boat. Run the generator for an few hours, then carry it back up to the boat and somehow get it back on board. Next day (or the day after) repeat.

 

No assumptions, just knowledge and experience of how new boaters think how they 'would like things be' and not how the actually are.

 

 

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I think it was our dear Athy who so vehemently opposed posts being numbered.

 

Now he appears to have gone, maybe we can have post numbers back! 

 

 

 

 

Yes - Thinking about it I've not seen anything from him for ages - has he gorn, or is just on temporary leave ?

Edited August 25, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I think it was our dear Athy who so vehemently opposed posts being numbered.

 

Now he appears to have gone, maybe we can have post numbers back! 

 

 

I think it was when the forum software was "upgraded" that the numbers disappeared, never to return... 😞

[Rob-M]

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I think it was our dear Athy who so vehemently opposed posts being numbered.

 

Now he appears to have gone, maybe we can have post numbers back! 

 

 

He did visit yesterday but not seen him comment for a while.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

One assumes that unless you have a very very very long lead and intend to leave the generator 'at  home' whilst you are cruising, you are going to need to lift the generator onto the boat (not an easy task - think of it like lifting two gas clinders at once), then when you moor up for the night you are going to follow the Boat Safety advice and lift your generator off the boat and take it down-wind of your boat. Run the generator for an few hours, then carry it back up to the boat and somehow get it back on board. Next day (or the day after) repeat.

 

No assumptions, just knowledge and experience of how new boaters think how they 'would like things be' and not how the actually are.

 

 

 

 

Yes - Thinking about it I've not seen anything from him for ages - has he gorn, or is just on temporary leave ?

We won't be cruising much over next couple of years . Noted about generator weight . What about wheels and ramps? Can't afford an inboard so presumably everyone has this problem? Tbh I doubt we would take our generator on cruises . .. as always appreciative of experience. 

[MtB]

Just now, IanD said:

 

I think it was when the forum software was "upgraded" that the numbers disappeared, never to return... 😞

 

Possibly right there. And at the same time, absolute times and dates on posts also disappeared to be replaced with this relative tosh e.g. "Posted three hours ago), making it virtually impossible to refer back to a specific post other than with a full URL link to it.