Morco gas pipe size

[Tony Brooks]

20 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

It's important to have read and understood the BSS regulations and to be competent before doing your own gas installation. Of course solder joints shouldn't be used, but no joints are even better than compression joints.

 

Ta, I took the red bit on Alan's post to be his footer so ignored it.

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Ta, I took the red bit on Alan's post to be his footer so ignored it.

 

Never ignore what I post - it could be important !

[Bargebuilder]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Never ignore what I post - it could be important !

Especially if it's in red!

[blackrose]

29 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

I had three propane appliances, the 19kw Morco, a gas hob and a built-in gas oven. Each had its own, dedicated gas pipe, run from the gas locker to each appliance. Each had its own stop valve inside the gas locker, so any one could be isolated individually. I used 10mm copper for the hob and oven which was much easier to bend to the compound curves of a Dutch barge. 

There were no joins in any of the pipes apart from inside the gas locker and next to each appliance. I don't like having joints in gas pipes behind panelling or cupboards.

 

 

 

Just because you don't need to have an installation that is over engineered, doesn't mean it's a bad thing to do.

That's one advantage of doing the work yourself!

 

I also did my own gas installation and ended up with 2 separate systems, one down each side of the boat - one side for oven & hob and the other side for the gas fridge and water heater. It's a widebeam with 4 gas bottles in the bow locker, a manual changeover valve and bubble tester on each side and half inch pipe running down each side. The gas pipe size calculations told me that if I tried to take a single main run around the back of the cabin to the other side in half inch pipe the installation would be borderline so I installed 2 separate systems. It's worked really well and 4 different inspectors have passed it, one saying it's an unusual system but complimenting me on the standard of the work. Like you I have no joints all the way from the gas locker to the appliance isolators. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by blackrose

[Bargebuilder]

7 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

I also did my own gas installation and ended up with 2 separate systems, one down each side of the boat - one side for oven & hob and the other side for the gas fridge and water heater. It's a widebeam with 4 gas bottles in the bow locker, a manual changeover valve and bubble tester on each side and half inch pipe running down each side. The gas pipe size calculations told me that if I tried to take a single main run around the back of the cabin to the other side in half inch pipe the installation would be borderline so I installed 2 separate systems. It's worked really well and 4 different inspectors have passed it, one saying it's an unusual system but complimenting me on the standard of the work. Like you I have no joints all the way from the gas locker to the appliance isolators. 

Very well done for doing it yourself. You are clearly competent to do so, have saved a fortune in not paying someone else, put more time and effort into doing a good job than many professionals might and if anything goes wrong, you know exactly where everything is and how it works and how to mend it; great!

[blackrose]

39 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Very well done for doing it yourself. You are clearly competent to do so, have saved a fortune in not paying someone else, put more time and effort into doing a good job than many professionals might and if anything goes wrong, you know exactly where everything is and how it works and how to mend it; great!

 

Thanks, it took me a lot longer than a professional would have taken but I learned a lot doing it myself, thoroughly reading and understanding the regs to get it right. But in doing so I demystified the whole thing for myself.

[system 4-50]

2 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

Why is it so important to you? 

No importance has been asserted so far.  Interested, yes.  I too installed my own gas piping in my ex-boat.  4 lines for each of Morco, cooker, fridge & tumble dryer, all in 3/8ths IIRC with no unecssary joints outside the locker.  4 valves in gas locker, 4 x 13Kg bottles. 2 x bubble testers.  All passed various BSS with the only criticism was that there were 2 bubble testers when with bypass plumbing 1 would have sufficed. Neither was ever used for BSS testing.

[Tacet]

7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

On one of our Static Caravans we have had to connect together 4x 47 Kg cylinders to get sufficient volume to feed the gas fire, boiler, cooker and hob.

(Thats how I know the pigtails don't have non-return valves in them)

Must be a big caravan.  If I understand correctly, Calor indicate about 34Kw can be supplied by a single 47kg; https://shop.calor.co.uk/47kg-propane-gas-bottle.html.  No doubt it depends a bit on ambient temperature, regulator and probably duration of a heavy load.  So, four would allow 132Kw - which is a lot!

 

 

[Bargebuilder]

A lot of canal boats will be using 13kg propane and their rated takeoff is closer to 15kw, not sufficient for our instantaneous water heater, let alone  anything else.

[Alan de Enfield]

23 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Must be a big caravan.  If I understand correctly, Calor indicate about 34Kw can be supplied by a single 47kg; https://shop.calor.co.uk/47kg-propane-gas-bottle.html.  No doubt it depends a bit on ambient temperature, regulator and probably duration of a heavy load.  So, four would allow 132Kw - which is a lot!

 

 

 

I thought it was a bit over the top but our 'pet' Caravan Gas man responding to a call that not everything will work at the same time, came out and that was his conclusion.

 

It was no 'skin off my nose' as the caravan owner paid the call out fee, for the bigger regulator and for the extra cylinders.

 

They haven't had any issues since so happy all around.

[Guest]

On 30/07/2023 at 22:53, Alan de Enfield said:

 

This pipe size chart contains an error and should not be used. If you look at the top left, it says the data relates to outside diameter of pipe. It doesn't, it relates to the inside diameter of pipe. It's a typo, because someone looked at the list of pipes and thought they look like standard OD pipe sizes. If you use this chart you will pick a pipe size too small. This table has been changed to correctly read "inside diameter of pipe" in later versions of this standard, so you can easily verify this is true. Unfortunately, you have now (not for the first time) given someone bad advice from a withdrawn and outdated standard (this is from ISO 10239:2008).

 

This is not the first time this has appeared on this website, but it would be generally good advice to stop issuing it. 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

41 minutes ago, watchfuleye said:

 

This pipe size chart contains an error and should not be used. If you look at the top left, it says the data relates to outside diameter of pipe. It doesn't, it relates to the inside diameter of pipe. It's a typo, because someone looked at the list of pipes and thought they look like standard OD pipe sizes. If you use this chart you will pick a pipe size too small. This table has been changed to correctly read "inside diameter of pipe" in later versions of this standard, so you can easily verify this is true. Unfortunately, you have now (not for the first time) given someone bad advice from a withdrawn and outdated standard (this is from ISO 10239:2008).

 

This is not the first time this has appeared on this website, but it would be generally good advice to stop issuing it. 

 

 

I pointed out that this chart is an error some time ago, but someone on here keeps on quoting it regardless and muddying the waters.

I do wish he would stop it.

Why can he not quote the corrected later chart?