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Lister lpw2 stops when under strong loads


barrowpete

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My lister has always worked fine until this month, it seems to dislike heavy loads stalling many times around Stratford bridge 100 area where there is little depth and today in a gusting wind (29 knots by the met app) weed hatch clear. Slight amount of water removed from water fuel filter spots only but light yellow. I use fuel set in the diesel 

 

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Is there a water trap that often looks a bit like a filter between tank and engine? If so, what sort of state is that in?

 

If the water trap/filter you talk of is between the tank and engine lift pump, have you reassembled it correctly? It may be sucking air.

 

Are you saying the element/filter card in the engine filter is yellow but with spots? If so those spots should not be there, so you may have fuel bug floating about in the tank restricting the fuel supply.

 

Have you done any work around the engine and fuel tank that might have loosened a pipe union.

 

Has the fuel tap been left off or only partially turned on?

 

I am assuming it is not overheating and partially seizing, otherwise you would probably have talked about clouds of steam etc.

 

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The water trap I mentioned is between the tank and the lister fuel filter the filter was replaced approximately 133 hours running ago as (as was the lister fuel filter). The spots of water slightly yellow water are in the diesel when you open the water trap among fresh looking red diesel but they are only spots

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David has a good point. Can you hold your hand on the stern gland after half an hour's running. If not, then the shaft is out of alignment, possibly caused by an engine mount problem.

 

3 minutes ago, barrowpete said:

The water trap I mentioned is between the tank and the lister fuel filter the filter was replaced approximately 133 hours running ago as (as was the lister fuel filter). The spots of water slightly yellow water are in the diesel when you open the water trap among fresh looking red diesel but they are only spots

 

So what state is the filter/gauze in the water trap in (unless it is a cone type). I don't know why the water should be yellow, unless you have upset someone, unless it is either fuel additive or slight brown rusty water.

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The prop shafts and sturn tube are new and the engine was aliened last year nothing seams to have moved. The engine starts with a little reluctance after stalling so it does feel like fuel starvation then runs quite well for a time if not under pressure 

 

 

 

 

Will try Tony's idea about alinement I know the "engineers" had issues as it's only 32 foot boat with very little space 

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3 minutes ago, barrowpete said:

The prop shafts and sturn tube are new and the engine was aliened last year nothing seams to have moved. The engine starts with a little reluctance after stalling so it does feel like fuel starvation then runs quite well for a time if not under pressure 

How do you know that? It's possible something has bedded in and settled a little over the last few months. Check the stern tube temperature as Tony suggests.

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Have you checked the adjustment on the morse cables; is the lever on the engine moving to the full fuel position when you push the morse lever to the end of its travel? It’s not unknown for the clamp to come loose.

Edited by Eeyore
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  • 2 weeks later...

Looks like dirty fuel. I changed the water filter at Alrewas on our way home and although I've taken small amounts of water out each day engine has run fine. Would have changed the small lister filter as well but as the system is gravity fed the things a pig. Last time the system wouldn't bleed until I put an extra 100 litres of fuel in not something I could do in the middle of nowhere. Soon be home and planning a tank clean and full filter change. I will remember from now on to change fuel filters at start of year not wait the 500 hours lister manual says. 

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2 hours ago, barrowpete said:

Would have changed the small lister filter as well but as the system is gravity fed the things a pig. Last time the system wouldn't bleed until I put an extra 100 litres of fuel in not something I could do in the middle of nowhere

 

I thought that range of Listers had a lift pump and would therefore have a manual priming lever for bleeding, although I think they are supposed to be self bleeding. But probably not if there is no lift pump.

 

To make things easier there is no reason not to fit an electric lift pump fed from the ignition switch between the water trap and engine filter.

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14 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I thought that range of Listers had a lift pump and would therefore have a manual priming lever for bleeding, although I think they are supposed to be self bleeding. But probably not if there is no lift pump.

 

To make things easier there is no reason not to fit an electric lift pump fed from the ignition switch between the water trap and engine filter.

That range of Lister Petter engines always came with a lift pump fitted. And yes they were all self bleed fuel system.

Just another thought. Is the tank breather clear as if not could possibly give you this problem.

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5 hours ago, Steve56 said:

That range of Lister Petter engines always came with a lift pump fitted. And yes they were all self bleed fuel system.

Just another thought. Is the tank breather clear as if not could possibly give you this problem.

 

Thanks for the conformation. The only thing that just might  explain no lift pump is the lack of an M in the engine designation so it might be an industrial engine that for some reason never had a lift pump, Probably unlikely so perhaps owner misunderstanding.

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Looks like dirty fuel. I changed the water filter at Alrewas on our way home and although I've taken small amounts of water out each day engine has run fine. Would have changed the small lister filter as well but as the system is gravity fed the things a pig. Last time the system wouldn't bleed until I put an extra 100 litres of fuel in not something I could do in the middle of nowhere. Soon be home and planning a tank clean and full filter change. I will remember from now on to change fuel filters at start of year not wait the 500 hours lister manual says. 

The engine has a lift pump and is self priming except for this to work I usually need to release air out of both filters thus the need for the full fuel tank. 

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22 minutes ago, barrowpete said:

The engine has a lift pump and is self priming except for this to work I usually need to release air out of both filters thus the need for the full fuel tank

 

This makes no sense. Are you sure that you understand bleeding diesel engine fuel systems properly? Do you also understand that the fuel supply dip tube inside the tank could be up to about 6" above the bottom of the tank?

 

Have you done anything to assess and/or remove whatever may be floating about in the bottom of the tank. it is not unknown for a raft of bug to float about and block the outlet at random intervals.

 

Any water trap between tank and lift pump can only be directly bled by gravity, but doing that is not necessary because the lift pump should suck all the air out of the water trap to be expelled via the engine filter bleed or via the self bleeding system back to the tank. This is even easier if the water trap is of a type that allows you to fill it with diesel before reassembly, but it is not impossible if this is not the case. All those with water traps using CAV 296 parts can attest to this.

 

I don't know what type of lift pump that engine uses, but it MIGHT have a strainer in the top, and if so this could be blocked. That would explain some of your problems. A photo will help identify if it does or not. It is also possible that bug or other muck have jammed a/the pump valve(s) open. That would prevent it pumping.

 

In short, as long as the dip tube is immersed in fuel the engine should self bleed, or it should manually bleed by the priming ever on the lift pump or by spinning the engine on the starter in 30 second bursts. I think there is more to this than it being gravity fed. Dip tubes have been known to split, so the fuel level needs to be above the split to stop the lift pump sucking air.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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Dont discount a small piece of fabric or plastic in the tank ...........I worked on a boat that had intermittant fuel trouble ......... small pieces of nylon shirt material  invisible in the fuel,and also invisible stuck to the tank when it was water pressure cleaned........a number of pieces were  found when all the fuel in the tank was taken out with a 2" suction pipe  while pressure hosing the tank with fuel to keep the contents stirred.................this material would not have blocked the fuel if there had been a mesh filter inside the tank on the pickup...............and then ,the time a cheap auto parts store inline plastic filter cost over $20,000 in un needed repairs and replacements.

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The engine has a lift pump and is self priming except for this to work I usually need to release air out of both filters thus the need for the full fuel tank.  I bleed my filters thus first release the nut at the in going side of my water trap till fuel flows then tighten it move to the out going side then stand on my head and do the ingoing side of the lister filter then the outgoing side then I manually am able to use the lift pump till fuel can be heard going back into the tank 

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10 minutes ago, barrowpete said:

The engine has a lift pump and is self priming except for this to work I usually need to release air out of both filters thus the need for the full fuel tank.  I bleed my filters thus first release the nut at the in going side of my water trap till fuel flows then tighten it move to the out going side then stand on my head and do the ingoing side of the lister filter then the outgoing side then I manually am able to use the lift pump till fuel can be heard going back into the tank 

 

Once again: If the lift pump is working properly, you do NOT have to release the air from the water trap, the lift pump will draw it through. If the water trap is suitable it helps if you fill it with fuel before reassembly, if it is not then the lift pump will just take a bit longer to fuel to the engine filter. There are thousands of boats on the system where this is what is done and works, if yours does not work like that it suggests a lift pump fault as I described before or even a punctured diaphragm, although that is likely to lead to a fuel leak from a breather hole or diluted engine oil, so probably unlikely.

 

You do NOT bleed from the ingoing side of the engine filter or even the outgoing side, it should have a bleed screw or screws on it. If a single screw then bleed from that, if twin screws use the one on the outlet side. When you are sure these are free from air then there is usually a bleed screw on the injector pump to use.

 

Bleed from the filter and then the injector pump until pure fuel with no air bubbles are coming out. No need to listen to the tank because you won't know if what is falling inside it is pure fuel or a mixture of fuel and air.

 

To be sure of the bleeding, you can then loosen by about one turn the injector feed pipes at the injector end and spin the engine on the starter. Each union should spit or drip a LITTLE fuel.

 

However, all this is to minimise the use of the starter for self bleeding. The Listers like yours that I have seen seem to self bleed easily. If yours will not bleed itself without messing with the water trap bleed points, then there is something wrong with your boat. It will never self bleed with the bleed point on the water trap open.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Thanks for the conformation. The only thing that just might  explain no lift pump is the lack of an M in the engine designation so it might be an industrial engine that for some reason never had a lift pump, Probably unlikely so perhaps owner misunderstanding.

They were all built with lift pumps regardless of whether they were for marine or industrial use.

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