Ignition problem

[Rob K, Waterbeach]

For a while now, I've noticed it takes longer and longer to get the engine going on my narrowboat. Today I gave up as I felt I was just running the battery down.

 

Once I get it going and run the engine for a while, if I turn it off and try again shortly after it starts first time. So, it feels like a problem getting warmed up in the first place, which would indicate an issue with the pre-ignition starter, wouldn't it?

 

I've read a few similar threads, but nothing that describes quite the same problem, so grateful for any advice.

[cheesegas]

What engine is it? A photo would help too. 

[Tony Brooks]

Without being there and maybe doing some tests there is no way to answer your question with any confidence.

 

What engine? Not all have glow plugs. How many battery banks? What type of charge splitting if two banks and one alternator? How fast is it actually turning over? How long in hours do you run the engine once it has started and at what revs? What is the battery voltage at rest and while cranking?

 

What temperature is it where you are?

 

Now some thoughts.

 

The stop control is still in the stop position or it has jammed in stop.

 

Here in Reading it is warm enough for an engine in good condition to start without using the glow plugs, unlike a week or so ago.

 

I suspect  the engine is in poor condition (low compression), the engine is not cranking fast enough (discharged/faulty start battery), the glow plugs are not working (as you say), or it has run out of fuel/the fuel system is blocked. less likely is a worn brushes in the starter motor.

 

The battery voltage when not running and also when cranking will give an idea about the battery. As it takes many, many hours to fully recharge a discharged battery (say 8 hours plus of running at fast idle or higher) I fear you may have been starting it many, many times and not recharging it. If it does not have separate domestic and engine battery banks then I would suspect domestic use has flattened the batteries and you have not be charging them enough.

 

As engines heat up the parts expand and tend to take up some of the wear so the residual heat in the engine and the consequent better compression usually allows a warm but worn engine  to start but not from cold.

 

I can't suggest any tests until I get answer to the questions I posed.

[MtB]

38 minutes ago, Rob K, Waterbeach said:

I've read a few similar threads, but nothing that describes quite the same problem, so grateful for any advice.

 

 

Are you hoping for detailed advice and guidance in fixing this yourself?

 

Or are you just trying to assess the seriousness of the problem and whether to engage a professional? 

 

If the former let's start by asking you the make and model of engine. And ideally post some photos please.

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

PS I have assumed this is a diesel engine, despite the fact diesels do not have an ignition system as such, because you talk about glow plugs. It could be a petrol engine that does have an ignition system so hence the request for engine identity.

[Rob K, Waterbeach]

@cheesegas I don't have the full engine specs to hand but it's a diesel and I've attached a photo. What would be really helpful is to identify the glow plugs. I've circled in red what I believe to be one of them. If someone could confirm then I could at least make progress. It's probably due a service so I think I'll end up getting a pro to take a look, but I'd still like to understand what's going on.

[Scholar Gypsy]

This firm look quite helpful. Not used them myself (as I have a Mitsubishi not an Isuzu).  

https://www.enginesplus.co.uk/product-category/isuzu-canal-boat-engine-spares/

[Tracy D'arth]

That engine looks to have been well cooked.  That is one of the glow plugs, all 4 should be connected together and get 12v when you turn the key to the "heat" position for 10 to 15 seconds before cranking the engine. They should draw around 40A if they are all working.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

That engine looks to have been well cooked. 

 

 

I was wondering what might have caused that crackling up of the paint on the rocker cover but I agree now you say, it looks like burning. It must have got up to one helluva temperature to do that to (presumably) heat-proof paint! 

[Tony Brooks]

I too have been pondering the same thing as Tracy & Mike but can't see any other significant heat damage. I concluded a liquid had probably attacked the paint, but what or how I have no idea.

[Tom and Bex]

It's typical Isuzu paint. Water would probably be enough to do that!

[Tony Brooks]

21 minutes ago, Tom and Bex said:

It's typical Isuzu paint. Water would probably be enough to do that!

 

It certainly looks as if rusty water (coolant) might have got to the back of the damaged area judging by the rusty stain.

[MtB]

21 minutes ago, Tom and Bex said:

It's typical Isuzu paint. Water would probably be enough to do that!

 

It is however, surprising how often something apparently peripheral and unconnected turns out to be relevant to the fault being investigated. 

 

If it was caused by overheating, this engine could be carrying all manner of problems manifesting themselves as difficulties with starting.

 

 

 

[Sea Dog]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

 

I was wondering what might have caused that crackling up of the paint on the rocker cover but I agree now you say, it looks like burning. It must have got up to one helluva temperature to do that to (presumably) heat-proof paint! 

That engine also looks pretty much uncared for and is swimming in a bilge full of filthy water. With that level of neglect it's hardly surprising it's not performing at it's best.

[Tracy D'arth]

That multiplug on the wiring harness is in serious need of attention, it will let you down for sure.

May be it already has and you have lost the feed to the heater plugs?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

That multiplug on the wiring harness is in serious need of attention, it will let you down for sure.

May be it already has and you have lost the feed to the heater plugs?

 

It looks as if the red lead has either become detached from one side of the plug, or, has been added as a 'jumper' across the plug & socket.

[Tracy D'arth]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It looks as if the red lead has either become detached from one side of the plug, or, has been added as a 'jumper' across the plug & socket.

"" Don't cut the red first!!!!!""

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BANG!

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

"" Don't cut the red first!!!!!""

 

 

What's that you say? Cut the red first? OK!!