Does being a driver make you a better boat handler?

[bottle]

PS why is everyone so adamant that boats dont have brakes, what about the engine gearbox and prop? or does everyone just coast to astop.

 

Chris

 

My thoughts are, if you tell a 'newby' that a boat does not have brakes it focuses the mind and maybe makes them more observant.

 

It may also be a good idea if experienced crews 'drove' their boat as if it did not have brakes.

 

Coasting to a stop? Yes as much as possible, do not always get it right though.

[stuartcnz]

I learned to row a dinghy before I learned to ride a bicycle. Since then I have driven professionally semi's and b-trains (which have two pivot points to keep an eye on when reversing instead of one like on semi's.), forklifts, pivot steer front end loaders and container straddle carriers (which have eight wheel steering.

 

I would agree that car drivers can make better boat steerer's, provided all of their driving was in rear wheel drive cars, on ice.

 

My childhood experience on boats, definitely helped me when I was learning to drive trucks, though not the steering side of it, but dealing with controlling the weight. Every type of vehicle or machine I have driven requires completely different skills and as such means learning each from scratch, with each machine or vehicle. There is a certain amount of cumulative knowledge that helps though.

 

Cars and boats are far to different from each other for car driving experience to help with boat operating, though boat operating does in my opinion help with learning to handle a car.

 

The biggest difference though, I think is that when you have been away from boats for awhile, it takes time to become proficient at handling them again. Vehicles with wheels don't take that much re-familiarizing.

[Nickhlx]

I have found piloting a narrowboat has drawn on my motorcycling abilities for thinking far ahead and taking early reaction to developing circumstances, and also to piloting a hot air balloon, where the response time is always 10 seconds and can be 25 seconds, a bit like a boat but much longer before something happens....

 

As with everything, it helps to find and learn the abilities of the machine, experience it first hand in all weathers and conditions, and regularly practice. Many people e.g. have for whatever reason ( fear, usually) never held the throttle wide open right up to the red line through all the gears, so are hesitant on some overtakes as they don't know that the machine can easily make the manoevre safely.... and the biggest confidence giving situations can be when the limits are being stretched - landing at "impossibly fast" speeds and realising that it "wasn't so bad after all". Having the confidence and courage to try it is probably the basic requirement ( obviously within rational limits ).

 

To comment on the OP's query... I think any experience of controlling machines is likely to be of use, even if not directly, but as a pre-requisite it can not be very appropriate. As has been said there are plenty of superb pilots who can't drive etc... and vice-versa

 

 

Nick

[Tam & Di]

I have found piloting a narrowboat has drawn on my motorcycling abilities for thinking far ahead and taking early reaction to developing circumstances,

 

- landing at "impossibly fast" speeds and realising that it "wasn't so bad after all". Having the confidence and courage to try it is probably the basic requirement ( obviously within rational limits ).

 

To comment on the OP's query... I think any experience of controlling machines is likely to be of use, even if not directly, but as a pre-requisite it can not be very appropriate. As has been said there are plenty of superb pilots who can't drive etc... and vice-versa

 

When we get absolute beginners on our barge handling courses I find it useful to tell them that although they are stood at the wheel and to that extent it is like a car, in reality boating/barging is more like riding a bike. You begin by over-steering and wobbling from side to side, and gradually get the feel of how to make small constant movements on the wheel/tiller rather than abrupt panicky big ones. We do frequently get people with narrowboat experience who say to me that they always coast into locks so if they hit anything they don't do any damage. They are surprised when I tell them they have uttered an impossible sentence - if you drift into locks it is not a matter of "if" you hit something but "when". You are only in control of your boat when it is in gear and moving at sufficient speed that any slight puff of wind or piddle of current will not have any effect. Yes, when you are learning you go slowly and steadily, but that should only be the first stage in acquiring fluency and not an end in itself. Learning any skill follows the path that initially you can only see one movement at a time, and then gradually you see two, three steps ahead, until finally you can say drive from London to Birmingham and not remember anything in particular about the journey; your brain only wakes up when something out of the ordinary happens which might need some action on your part. That's the time you can really enjoy your boating and look around you to take everything in.

 

Yes too on getting to know your boat. Each one is different to each other one - even one big Northwich motor from another. Find somewhere you can go flat out, mentally mark something on the bank and when you reach it do an emergency stop. See how far it took you - how straight or otherwise was the boat when it stopped. If you do find somewhere wide enough see how tight a turning circle you need, clockwise and anti-clockwise.

 

Nick's comment on experience with machinery in general is true too. It's probably a "man's thing" that they are more likely to have played with toys that involved similar ideas, as it tends to be mostly women that give me grief by slamming the single-lever control from hard ahead to hard astern without pause, or go into reverse to stop in a lock and leave it there without even noticing they are on their way back out again. After two or three locks where I gently say "I think it would be better if you went into neutral" I finally leave them to reverse out and work it out for themselves why the crew is looking at them with such a puzzled expression.

Edited January 18, 2009 by Tam & Di

[Nickhlx]

When we get absolute beginners on our barge handling courses I find it useful to tell them that although they are stood at the wheel and to that extent it is like a car, in reality boating/barging is more like riding a bike. You begin by over-steering and wobbling from side to side, and gradually get the feel of how to make small constant movements on the wheel/tiller rather than abrupt panicky big ones. We do frequently get people with narrowboat experience who say to me that they always coast into locks so if they hit anything they don't do any damage. They are surprised when I tell them they have uttered an impossible sentence - if you drift into locks it is not a matter of "if" you hit something but "when". You are only in control of your boat when it is in gear and moving at sufficient speed that any slight puff of wind or piddle of current will not have any effect. Yes, when you are learning you go slowly and steadily, but that should only be the first stage in acquiring fluency and not an end in itself. Learning any skill follows the path that initially you can only see one movement at a time, and then gradually you see two, three steps ahead, until finally you can say drive from London to Birmingham and not remember anything in particular about the journey; your brain only wakes up when something out of the ordinary happens which might need some action on your part. That's the time you can really enjoy your boating and look around you to take everything in.

 

Yes too on getting to know your boat. Each one is different to each other one - even one big Northwich motor from another. Find somewhere you can go flat out, mentally mark something on the bank and when you reach it do an emergency stop. See how far it took you - how straight or otherwise was the boat when it stopped. If you do find somewhere wide enough see how tight a turning circle you need, clockwise and anti-clockwise.

 

Nick's comment on experience with machinery in general is true too. It's probably a "man's thing" that they are more likely to have played with toys that involved similar ideas, as it tends to be mostly women that give me grief by slamming the single-lever control from hard ahead to hard astern without pause, or go into reverse to stop in a lock and leave it there without even noticing they are on their way back out again. After two or three locks where I gently say "I think it would be better if you went into neutral" I finally leave them to reverse out and work it out for themselves why the crew is looking at them with such a puzzled expression.

 

 

 

 

Its the way we are all wired up !!

 

 

Nick

[larkshall]

Having a conversation recently about a handling issue I've got with the boat. Reversing. A Catch-22 of because I've not done it enough I'm not confident, but because I'm not confident I've not done it enough.

 

But that's by the by (and not the topic of this thread), and the conversation got into general handling but suddenly hit a brick wall when this sentence was dropped into the conversation ...

 

"Of course, because you can't drive (a car) there's really no point talking about it as you'll never really handle a boat if you can't drive."

 

WHAT???

 

Considering we're talking two completely different modes of transport with widely different handling methods in widely different conditions the statement above surely has to be complete, erm, twaddle.

 

The chap is adamant, but I can't see the connection.

 

So, open to the floor.

 

absolute twaddle. I have a class 1hgv license, and drive everything down to a motorcycle. Has bugger all bearing on boat handling

[Naughty Cal]

I would be a little concerned if any of my cars handled like my boat but also if my boat handled like any of my cars.

 

I dont think the ability to drive has any bearing on your ability to handle a boat.

[Roger Gunkel]

Nickhlx & Tam & Di both made very relevant points about improving your confidence by pushing things a little. Finding how long it takes to slow down from higher speeds, handling in windy conditions, practicing reversing. Driving a car I think is completely irrelevent to handling aboat. Every boat is completely different, with different momentum, handling characteristics etc. Its a question of finding out what happens when you make certain actions under different circumstances, to store in your mind for next time. There are many people with boats who won't use them under difficult weather conditions, but they never find out what their boat is capable of and more importantly , what they are capable of.

 

When I became a glliding instructor, I was already a capable pilot, but on the advanced instructors course, I was put into situations far beyond anything that I had experienced before, to show me what can go wrong, what students can do through inexperience and how to handle the situation. Apart from being very frightening and exhilarating, it made me a far better and safer pilot by stretching my own skills and getting me to recognise pending disaster. Since then, any new skill I learn, such as boat handling, I like to push the envelope under controlled conditions to prepare for the unexpected and give greater confidence in everyday use.

 

Roger

[Naughty Cal]

Nickhlx & Tam & Di both made very relevant points about improving your confidence by pushing things a little. Finding how long it takes to slow down from higher speeds, handling in windy conditions, practicing reversing. Driving a car I think is completely irrelevent to handling aboat. Every boat is completely different, with different momentum, handling characteristics etc. Its a question of finding out what happens when you make certain actions under different circumstances, to store in your mind for next time. There are many people with boats who won't use them under difficult weather conditions, but they never find out what their boat is capable of and more importantly , what they are capable of.

 

When I became a glliding instructor, I was already a capable pilot, but on the advanced instructors course, I was put into situations far beyond anything that I had experienced before, to show me what can go wrong, what students can do through inexperience and how to handle the situation. Apart from being very frightening and exhilarating, it made me a far better and safer pilot by stretching my own skills and getting me to recognise pending disaster. Since then, any new skill I learn, such as boat handling, I like to push the envelope under controlled conditions to prepare for the unexpected and give greater confidence in everyday use.

 

Roger

 

Exactly what i do everytime i take Cal out then. So now you condone finding the limitations of your own skill and that of your vessel?

[bag 'o' bones]

Having a conversation recently about a handling issue I've got with the boat. Reversing. A Catch-22 of because I've not done it enough I'm not confident, but because I'm not confident I've not done it enough.

 

But that's by the by (and not the topic of this thread), and the conversation got into general handling but suddenly hit a brick wall when this sentence was dropped into the conversation ...

 

"Of course, because you can't drive (a car) there's really no point talking about it as you'll never really handle a boat if you can't drive."

 

WHAT???

 

Considering we're talking two completely different modes of transport with widely different handling methods in widely different conditions the statement above surely has to be complete, erm, twaddle.

 

The chap is adamant, but I can't see the connection.

 

So, open to the floor.

 

Utterly stupid argument. I can't believe you even entered into a debate with him!

For starters I have yet to drive a car that drives left when I turn the wheel right.........................

and how many times have you seen children handling boats far better than their parents!

Edited January 19, 2009 by bag 'o' bones

[Naughty Cal]

Utterly stupid argument. I can't believe you even entered into a debate with him!

For starters I have yet to drive a car that drives left when I turn the wheel right.........................

and how many times have you seen children handling boats far better than their parents!

 

Not all boats handle like that.

 

I turn my wheel left i go left.

 

I turn my wheel right i go right.

[Roger Gunkel]

Exactly what i do everytime i take Cal out then. So now you condone finding the limitations of your own skill and that of your vessel?

 

As I said 'under controlled conditions'

[Naughty Cal]

As I said 'under controlled conditions'

 

How do you create "controlled conditions" then? You can not control a river.

[carlt]

How do you create "controlled conditions" then? You can not control a river.

Have you ever tested your boat's limits anywhere where it would be legal to do so?

 

Have you taken her to sea, yet?

 

I think you're picking fights even though you only have very basic knowledge of your boat's capabilities.

[Naughty Cal]

Have you ever tested your boat's limits anywhere where it would be legal to do so?

 

Have you taken her to sea, yet?

 

I think you're picking fights even though you only have very basic knowledge of your boat's capabilities.

 

We have tested her out on the Trent. Not technically legal but perfectly safe to do so and no one sticks to the limits on there anyhow (and i aint going to tell the gravel barges they are speeding either).

 

Have not had chance to have her at sea yet but are looking forward to it this spring. Have been to sea in the Sealine Sea School SC29 though. Very nice boat it was too.

[carlt]

Ok, thank you.

[Divum Draconis]

Not sure if I posted this before, sorry if I've repeated myself.

 

I believe actual handling of the boat is very different from driving... I mean I doubt it could be further.

 

Buuut, I think the aspects of planning ahead, hazard perception, etc are good skills to use and develop on the boat.

 

EDIT: Whoops, didn't realise I was grave digging, as mum just pointed out to me this thread is a little old...

Edited April 6, 2009 by Divum Draconis

[Naughty Cal]

Handling a boat certainly makes you a better car driver though

[Guest User]

Fanlin's post Reported

[Tam & Di]

Fanlin's post Reported

 

 

??????????????

[GSer]

The best 'guest' steerer I've had on board was a 13 year old boy, never been on a boat before, he watched me for a lock and a length, asked if he could have a go and off he went! Top stuff, straight down the middle and asking all the right questions at the right time, it was all a bit spooky really he was that good. Nothing flustered him locks bridges passing boats etc took all in his stride.

 

Some kids, like him, must be a real joy to teach!

 

Paul

[alan_fincher]

The best 'guest' steerer I've had on board was a 13 year old boy, never been on a boat before, he watched me for a lock and a length, asked if he could have a go and off he went! Top stuff, straight down the middle and asking all the right questions at the right time, it was all a bit spooky really he was that good. Nothing flustered him locks bridges passing boats etc took all in his stride.

 

Some kids, like him, must be a real joy to teach!

 

Paul

When as a teenager I helped at a local hire fleet, taking out the novice crews, often mum and/or dad were hopeless. The youngsters were there pleading to have a go, but were told at first, "no, let dad, do it". Often I was relieved if dad did stand down, as a 12 year old often demonstrated an aptitude that the adults were clearly going to struggle to acquire.

 

I find if we put newbies on the tiller of Chalice, some after about 5 minutes can put her straight through every bridge-hole, whereas some are still zig-zagging on relatively straight canal after an hour or more.

 

I have no idea what makes the difference - some get it, some don't.

[carlt]

??????????????

Something distasteful, or spammy, that the mods deleted immediately, so we may never know.

[Hairy-Neil]

Something distasteful, or spammy, that the mods deleted immediately, so we may never know.

 

You missed nothing. It was a epic post of 'short story' proportions, littered with links to porn/viagra/enhancement or whatever sites.

 

 

Often I was relieved if dad did stand down, as a 12 year old often demonstrated an aptitude that the adults were clearly going to struggle to acquire.

 

I found the same when I used to steer a local 26ft trip boat which was a handful at the best of times. It had a mind of its own, you didn't steer it, you corrected it....

 

Mums and dads were hopeless at it, but the kids that had a go mostly picked it up in no time, the girls better than the lads, perhaps because they listened to instructions and had no preconcieved ideas.

[Guest gloryforixseal]

You are more likely to get good at something you enjoy doing. This causes people to think that being good at things makes you like them, however, I think this is very rarely the case. Although, it can be true that improving at something can cause you to like it more.