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Two questions for liveaboard boaters


MichaelG

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12 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I can't disagree with your summary.

I did expect winter stoppages, I planned my routing around the stoppages. 

I really want my money back so I can resume a normal lifestyle. 

To be honest that is where I now stand.

I am unable to bona fide navigate on my terms, I do not think that any shuffling to and fro only to comply with CRT interpretations are going to coincide with my interpretation of bona fide navigation. 

 

You want a refund so that you may continue a "normal lifestyle" on land?  

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3 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Nothing to do with rudder welded on by a shoddy workman getting snapped off by an inconsiderate and shoddy lockgate then....

No.

Once repairs are completed I will be shuffling  between the three available CRT sanitary stations, trusting to luck that all three remain open for the next sixteen weeks. This is not my idea of bona fide navigation, but I assume it will meet the CRT interpretation of their own Ts&Cs. 

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32 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

To extend the analogy, in your case the entire roof of the hotel has now collapsed.  So yes, I think it would be reasonable to expect some kind of partial refund of your license fee, because you have been prevented from cruising and enjoying the waterways because of unplanned stoppages. 

I dont want to either defend CRT or play devils advocate, but to be fair the timing and the positions of the scheduled closures is all published information, so we cant blame CRT for fixing things when they say they are going to fix them. 

 

 

If you read your licence T&Cs you will see that C&RT specifically state that refunds for non-availability of the navigation will not be made and that they have basically costed the licence knowing that you will not get get 100% availability.

 

You have bought an economy ticket and have been bounced off the aircraft because it is overbooked.

 

I really do not understand how folks can just agree to T&Cs without knowing their contents.

 

9. Our obligations

 

9.1 We will do our best to keep the Waterway open for navigation, but closures may be required as a result of occasional unforeseen events or essential maintenance and repair work. Except in emergencies or for other unavoidable reasons, we shall try to arrange our maintenance work to cause you the least disruption. This means that most work requiring closures will be done between the beginning of November and the end of March. There may be other occasions when, due to causes beyond our reasonable control, we have to close part or (exceptionally) all of the Waterway.

 

9.2 The Licence fees are calculated on the assumption that you will be affected by closures from time to time and accordingly refunds of Licence fees will not be made for closures as described in this Condition 9.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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11 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I can't disagree with your summary.

I did expect winter stoppages, I planned my routing around the stoppages. 

I really want my money back so I can resume a normal lifestyle. 

To be honest that is where I now stand.

I am unable to bona fide navigate on my terms, I do not think that any shuffling to and fro only to comply with CRT interpretations are going to coincide with my interpretation of bona fide navigation. 

 

 

I'm really sorry to hear that you no longer want to continue with the ccing lifestyle, although I do totally understand why you're fed up with it all. Being stuck for months like that must be incredibly frustrating.  

 

This is just a thought, but if it really is just this recent entrapment that has put you off, and if before that you were ok with the lifestyle, then perhaps you can take some comfort from the fact that in a month or two you'll be free, and your previous level of enjoyment might return.

And maybe this current situation will never happen again- or at least very rarely? 

 

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7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

If you read your licence T&Cs you will see that C&RT specifically state that refunds for non-availability of the navigation will not be made and that they have basically costsed the licence kbowing that you will get get 100% availability.

 

You have bought an economy ticket and have been bounced off the aircraft because it is overbooked.

 

I really do not understand how folks can just agree to T&Cs without knowing their contents.

 

9. Our obligations

 

9.1 We will do our best to keep the Waterway open for navigation, but closures may be required as a result of occasional unforeseen events or essential maintenance and repair work. Except in emergencies or for other unavoidable reasons, we shall try to arrange our maintenance work to cause you the least disruption. This means that most work requiring closures will be done between the beginning of November and the end of March. There may be other occasions when, due to causes beyond our reasonable control, we have to close part or (exceptionally) all of the Waterway.

 

9.2 The Licence fees are calculated on the assumption that you will be affected by closures from time to time and accordingly refunds of Licence fees will not be made for closures as described in this Condition 9.

 

Thank you for your contribution.

 

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If only the dear departed Nigel Moore were with us now. 

Yes I signed up Ts and Cs, as writ by the CRT

However, they promised more than they delivered, life has not been "better by water" 

I expected to access about 2000 miles of waterways, I am able to use about ten miles of them. A bit like buying a car which has a one litre fuel tank. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Chagall said:

You want a refund so that you may continue a "normal lifestyle" on land?  

 

 

If only the dear departed Nigel Moore were with us now. 

Yes I signed up Ts and Cs, as writ by the CRT

However, they promised more than they delivered, life has not been "better by water" 

I expected to access about 2000 miles of waterways, I am able to use about ten miles of them. A bit like buying a car which has a one litre fuel tank. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Chagall said:

You want a refund so that you may continue a "normal lifestyle" on land?  

 

 

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3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

If only the dear departed Nigel Moore were with us now. 

Yes I signed up Ts and Cs, as writ by the CRT

However, they promised more than they delivered, life has not been "better by water" 

I expected to access about 2000 miles of waterways, I am able to use about ten miles of them. A bit like buying a car which has a one litre fuel tank. 

 

 

Good luck with that! 

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57 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I'm really sorry to hear that you no longer want to continue with the ccing lifestyle, although I do totally understand why you're fed up with it all. Being stuck for months like that must be incredibly frustrating.  

 

This is just a thought, but if it really is just this recent entrapment that has put you off, and if before that you were ok with the lifestyle, then perhaps you can take some comfort from the fact that in a month or two you'll be free, and your previous level of enjoyment might return.

And maybe this current situation will never happen again- or at least very rarely? 

 

Four months shuffling between three sanitary stations is, A to C, to B, to A to C etc is going to take a lot of reparations, thank goodness there are three of them.

My plan is to to attempt a spring cruise on the Lancaster then head to London to sell up. I may change my mind, but I can well understand why people give up boating.

I have never professed to being in love with narrowboating, I wanted to travel, live my own interpretation of an alternative lifestyle, that did not include spending six  months each year avoiding infrastructure stoppages, breaches, and Covid restrictions. It might be better on other navigations, but for sure, its pretty cr@p on the L&L where I am. 

Due to Covid and other stoppages, I never really got in to long term cc lifestyle, I just pottered along a few miles every week, which worked for about four to eight months of each summer.

I expected I might spend two or three winter months in or around civilisation/near family, or even other boaters. UK events, stoppages, breaches, breakdowns have all mitigated against my need for stress reduction in retirement. Remember that ad on TV where people had clockwork keys winding them up? 

Edited by LadyG
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45 minutes ago, LadyG said:

However, they promised more than they delivered, life has not been "better by water" 

 

You however, are IN it, not BY it.

 

It's a very carefully worded claim....

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15 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

You however, are IN it, not BY it.

 

It's a very carefully worded claim....

On it my dear  M.tB

Of course once on the towpath I am just a user, like any other joe public. 

I feel I might matter more at that time than when I am on my boat, maybe I am the ultimate cynic,

I am really coming round to the idea that the navigation authorities might just think that boaters should be kept in their place, and that place is a marina where they pay for a licence plus an extra hidden payment via the marina fee. 

It matters little, because there is no way boaters can suddenly fund the required £100 pa to maintain the structures. However, for those of us who actually want to move around, it is very difficult. 

Edited by LadyG
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On 17/12/2021 at 13:52, Tony1 said:

 

A fair point well made MTB.

I will say that although its not ideal having to shop from a very limited range, I dont have a major downer on the small shops (although many of them these days are part of chains anyway (such as Premier, with the purple and yellow signage). 

It just is what it is. Sometimes its more interesting and challenging to try to put together meals from a narrow menu of items- and it would ultimately get boring if we had a full Waitrose food hall in every village. 

I'm not trying to slag them off as such, and in fact there's been many a time they've come in really, really handy

The independent local shops are often really good.

I found one in a village near Rugby last year that sold amazing sausage rolls, upon which I dined exclusively for about a week! 

 

 

If you pretty much run out of food you will be very glad to find a corner shop, they usually open all hours, it's a hard life, but sometimes they do stock good value items especially those who cater to ethnics. 

I have most food delivered every week, Morrissons do mid week delivery £5 pcm, they will do their damnest to find you.

I find local gas, coal and log delveries are great, free if over £100, saves buying a car 😊

 

 

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, LadyG said:

If you pretty much run out of food you will be very glad to find a corner shop, they usually open all hours, it's a hard life, but sometimes they do stock good value items especially those who cater to ethnics. 

I have most food delivered every week, Morrissons do mid week delivery £5 pcm, they will do their damnest to find you.

I find local gas, coal and log delveries are great, free if over £100, saves buying a car 😊

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So far I've never needed to go seeking coal, or get it delivered- either the fuel boats come past, or I pass a marina selling it. 

Plus I always keep too much coal on board, just in case- currently there are 6 bags on the roof and 6 in the cratch, for example. 

 

But I must admit I've never tried arranging a grocery delivery. I remember years ago my ex-partner stopped using the Asda delivery service, because she said they kept giving her foods that had very short expiry dates.

For more flexibility, I much prefer food with longer dates, so I sort of went off the general idea of deliveries, but that was a long time ago and things have probably changed. 

 

Whilst I enjoy the challenge of food shopping using a bike and a rucksack, there is no doubt that in some weathers, and on some towpaths, it is a grim task to undertake. 

But I do enjoy the physical exercise of getting to and from the shops, and I like seeing the products in person (and being able to pick the longest dated from the back of the shelf). 

Sometimes it only makes sense for me to buy an item when I know it will keep for at least 4 or 5 days (say), so that I have time to actually eat it.

If I order everything online and without knowing its expiry date, my worry is that all the chilled meats (for example) will have a 3 day expiry. 

 

But I can acknowledge that this is probably an unfounded attitude, and I can totally see it would make sense to get the heavier items delivered by van, and thus maybe save my energy so that more of my trips into town can be just for exploration, and less will be missions to transport a 20-30kg load 4 miles back to the boat. 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

So far I've never needed to go seeking coal, or get it delivered- either the fuel boats come past, or I pass a marina selling it. 

Plus I always keep too much coal on board, just in case- currently there are 6 bags on the roof and 6 in the cratch, for example. 

 

But I must admit I've never tried arranging a grocery delivery. I remember years ago my ex-partner stopped using the Asda delivery service, because she said they kept giving her foods that had very short expiry dates.

For more flexibility, I much prefer food with longer dates, so I sort of went off the general idea of deliveries, but that was a long time ago and things have probably changed. 

 

Whilst I enjoy the challenge of food shopping using a bike and a rucksack, there is no doubt that in some weathers, and on some towpaths, it is a grim task to undertake. 

But I do enjoy the physical exercise of getting to and from the shops, and I like seeing the products in person (and being able to pick the longest dated from the back of the shelf). 

Sometimes it only makes sense for me to buy an item when I know it will keep for at least 4 or 5 days (say), so that I have time to actually eat it.

If I order everything online and without knowing its expiry date, my worry is that all the chilled meats (for example) will have a 3 day expiry. 

 

But I can acknowledge that this is probably an unfounded attitude, and I can totally see it would make sense to get the heavier items delivered by van, and thus maybe save my energy so that more of my trips into town can be just for exploration, and less will be missions to transport a 20-30kg load 4 miles back to the boat. 

 

 

 I find I drink a lot of beers, juices, water, milk plus potatoes, so when I did use my bike in summer, the bike was pretty much loaded. Two trips per week OK. 

I always buy Cravendale milk which lasts 3 to seven days. It is filtered milk, 

I find my fridge is just a pia, it's old, inefficient, and not installed with a draught from bilges. 

 

Unless kept warm...... 

In winter chilled fresh meat lasts 24 hours before being cooked,  It will then last 24 hours before it needs eaten. Lasts longer in cold weather. 

Spuds and onions keep weeks. 

Other veg up to a week

Cheese 7 to 12 days

Butter, weeks

Bread, 3 to seven days

I buy microwave rice, many varieties, keeps till open, I lightly fry chopped onions and other veg then add the rice, quick easy tasty meal in10 minutes. 

I buy Baxters tinned soup when on offer, really good. 

I've just bought Birds Eye Fish n chips and peas, frozen, very tasty. £2.50

 

 

 

Edited by LadyG
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I use a lot of veg both to have with our main meal and to make soup and I could never keep them fresh on the boat until our last trip. I filled an old coolbox with fresh veg and kept it under the cratch . After almost two weeks on board I still had fresh veg. We didn't have any frost but if an overnight frost had been forecast I planned to move the coolbox into the engine area after the engine had cooled down. 

 

Haggis

 

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1 hour ago, haggis said:

I use a lot of veg both to have with our main meal and to make soup and I could never keep them fresh on the boat until our last trip. I filled an old coolbox with fresh veg and kept it under the cratch . After almost two weeks on board I still had fresh veg. We didn't have any frost but if an overnight frost had been forecast I planned to move the coolbox into the engine area after the engine had cooled down. 

 

Haggis

 

I keep veg, meat and cheese in a wash up bowl under the rear door vent where it gets a draught. Agree a coolbox would be better. 

Spuds and onions stay in the log cupboard which is cool and dark. 

When I was at Goole the coal came from a farm, they sold unwashed potatoes in 20kg paper sack, lasted for two or three months. Washed veg may look nice, but has a very short shelf life. When a good bit younger I used to live and work in some remote places from time to time, we were literally living off the land, fishing for mackeral, cutting ham of the bone meant just that, and there was even a house cow, but it had gone native. 

Edited by LadyG
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1 hour ago, LadyG said:

If you pretty much run out of food you will be very glad to find a corner shop, they usually open all hours, it's a hard life, but sometimes they do stock good value items especially those who cater to ethnics. 

I have most food delivered every week, Morrissons do mid week delivery £5 pcm, they will do their damnest to find you.

I find local gas, coal and log delveries are great, free if over £100, saves buying a car 😊

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Cater to ethnics" 

 

Not a great choice of words there  @LadyG

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25 minutes ago, MtB said:

If you can manage to get your shopping home on a bike, you're not buying enough beer! 

 

That is, unless the intrepid bike rider makes two runs to the shops....

 

This is where mooring at the very rural places like Whixall Moss starts to get tricky.

If one is at all keen on beer, one must make a few preparatory beer collection trips whilst still close to civilisation , in order to lay in supplies for the coming days when one might be up to 6 miles from a shop. 

 

I passed a boat the day before yesterday that had I think 7 or 8 large packs of beer in the cratch, each with 18 cans. I have to imagine an internal combustion engine was involved in such a daunting procurement exercise.

It is always possible that some novel form of ballasting was being attempted, but employing such a temporary and delicious ballast cannot be a sound plan. 

The sheer ambition of this man is of course admirable, but for a cyclist, the scale of the operation would be, I fear, beyond my capability. 

 

Edited by Tony1
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1 minute ago, Tony1 said:

 

That is, unless the intrepid bike rider makes two runs to the shops....

 

This is where mooring at the very rural places like Whixall Moss starts to get tricky.

If one is at all keen on beer, one must make a few preparatory beer collection trips whilst still close to civilisation , in order to lay in supplies for the coming days when one might be up to 6 miles from a shop. 

 

I passed a boat the day before yesterday that had I think 7 or 8 large packs of beer in the cratch, each with 18 cans. I have to imagine an internal combustion engine was involved in such a daunting procurement exercise.

The sheer ambition of this man is of course admirable, but for a cyclist, the scale of the operation would be, I fear, beyond my capability. 

 

 

He could always have arranged a supermarker delivery to the marina, picked up his supplies and then back out and 'free-to-roam' until next week.

 

The arm at Ellesemere was always useful to pull into to top up on the shopping - it also had a good Pizza delivery service "we are the 10th boat down" worked fine until a couple of boats moved out and you stood a chance of donating your order to a boat a couple of boat further down. You soon learned to watch out for a Pizza man walking down the path.

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8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

He could always have arranged a supermarker delivery to the marina, picked up his supplies and then back out and 'free-to-roam' until next week.

 

The arm at Ellesemere was always useful to pull into to top up on the shopping - it also had a good Pizza delivery service "we are the 10th boat down" worked fine until a couple of boats moved out and you stood a chance of donating your order to a boat a couple of boat further down. You soon learned to watch out for a Pizza man walking down the path.

 

Are marinas generally ok with non-residents having stuff delivered from supermarkets? 

I've met a couple of marina folks who would have let me do this, but I've gotten an impression that unless you berth there, most marinas wouldn't be overly keen to let you have groceries delivered to them. 

But to be honest, whether its to a marina or a bridge, grocery (beer) deliveries are definitely the way forward.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Ianws said:

"Cater to ethnics" 

 

Not a great choice of words there  @LadyG

Yes, I knew it was awkward, I first thought about  Poles but they are only one diaspora. In some areas the shops are clearly signposted Latvian and other adjacent countries.

It depends where you are, which ethnic shops are sited where. They sometimes advertise European food as a bonus, but are not trying to fool us in to expectingTesco Express.

It's interesting to see what other people have as their staple diet. Lots of fresh herbs, big bundles of sage, coriander, mint, I think that was in a mini supermarket in Burnley. Near the Halal butcher. 

Edited by LadyG
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11 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Are marinas generally ok with non-residents having stuff delivered from supermarkets? 

I've met a couple of marina folks who would have let me do this, but I've gotten an impression that unless you berth there, most marinas wouldn't be overly keen to let you have groceries delivered to them. 

But to be honest, whether its to a marina or a bridge, grocery (beer) deliveries are definitely the way forward.

 

 

 

I'm pretty easy going in real life but if I owned a marina and non-moorers started coming in and using my service roads and pontoons to get shopping delivered, I'd see that as royally taking the p1ss! Unless they were buying say a couple of hundred quid of diesel and gas at the the same time, say.

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